official extraction help thread

[psilocybin]

Any questions or problems you may run into during an extraction can be asked to get other members input in this thread.

 

[memo]

If your SWIM evaps the amount down and then tries freeze/refridge precip again he might get some yield. The only concern about a total evap is that then you end up with any contaminants that got carried over. It is just convenient to be able to freeze overnight and then pour off the naptha and then let the crystals dry and end up with some fairly clean crystals right away. The product that is remaining after a complete evaporation may need to be washed to clean it up. Actually if there is enough dmt in the naptha it should start to precipitate out when the naptha gets evaporated down a bit. The good thing about a higher temp slower evaporation is that it leads to bigger more impressive looking crystals. Good luck!

 

[Dancing Tree]

Hello,
SWIM followed A/B and STB procedures with both white gas and ether (Acacia), but both seem to seperate in a few minutes from the soup and don't absorb color, nor create emultions, not yield crystals when evaporated. SWIM tried it in very small quantities to verify.

Please help him

 

[live4themusic]

SWIM followed the marsofold tek as follows:

first off, didn't just powder the bark. Bought it finely shredded. Don't know if that makes a difference.

Used half pound of bark to start with. Halved everything else in the tek except the gallon-wine-jug suggestion.

Let sludge settle from extraction for about 4 hours.

poured off liquid into wine jug (it's still a gallon jug, but half of everything else.)

HERE'S where SWIM may have fucked up:

Prepared the lye solution in an empty plastic jug, but they had another plastic jug just like it with a similar amount of water with a few drops of juice maybe.

SWIM isn't sure if they used the lye solution, or the water. At first thought they did it right and poured out the water from the other container but then realized it may have been the lye solution they just poured out and they may have used water in the wine jug.

Added 125 mL naptha, then filled 1-gallon wine jug with water to an inch from the top: this may be important because it's twice as much water proportionately as the tek normally calls for, since they halved everything else in the recipe but still used a 1-gallon wine jug.

Let sit 3 hours, then used a baster to put the clear stuff on top into two small bowls which were then set in a long flat tupperware container with the lid closed almost completely on top of it. Didn't have saran wrap so SWIM thought glassware set inside of tupperware might work. Could SWIM just use tupperware on it's own?

Is there a way to tell if the solution used at the part where SWIM should've added the lye solution, actually was the lye solution or just water?

What would happen if it was just water?

And if SWIM did mess it up, could it be saved or is it too late?

SWIM apologizes, but has a hard time understanding the chemical concepts behind this.

 

[endlessness]

if it had no lye, then the dmt is in the water+mimosa mix, and NOT in the naphtha... Lye makes the pH of the solution high, which makes the dmt become freebase. dmt freebase is soluble in naphtha but not in water. DMT in the salt form (as its found naturally in the plant) is soluble in water but not in naphtha.

A way to know if there was lye or not is by the colour of the whole mix... if it did not change colour when you mixed the water and the mimosa, then it was pure water.. if it noticeably changed colour to black or so, then it had lye...

so if it was not with lye and the water with mimosa is still there, then add the lye now and mix well, and then proceed with the naphtha pulls.

 

[Infundibulum]

Hello,
SWIM followed A/B and STB procedures with both white gas and ether (Acacia), but both seem to seperate in a few minutes from the soup and don't absorb color, nor create emultions, not yield crystals when evaporated. SWIM tried it in very small quantities to verify.

Please help him

Does SWIY want to share more information of his/her procedures so as to get a good troubleshooting? Not easy to see where SWIY fucked up.

i.e.
What Acacia species SWIY used

Which part of the plant

how much lye/water/bark?

Has SWIY's source been verified to contain spices? Any idea about expected yields?

 

[live4themusic]

SWIM did read that it was supposed to darken in color in basification, but for whatever reason, theirs was already so dark after the nonpolar extraction that they didn't even think they would've been able to tell if it had gotten any darker.

 

[live4themusic]

SWIM followed the marsofold tek as follows:

first off, didn't just powder the bark. Bought it finely shredded. Don't know if that makes a difference.

Used half pound of bark to start with. Halved everything else in the tek except the gallon-wine-jug suggestion.

Let sludge settle from extraction for about 4 hours.

poured off liquid into wine jug (it's still a gallon jug, but half of everything else.)

HERE'S where SWIM may have fucked up:

Prepared the lye solution in an empty plastic jug, but they had another plastic jug just like it with a similar amount of water with a few drops of juice maybe.

SWIM isn't sure if they used the lye solution, or the water. At first thought they did it right and poured out the water from the other container but then realized it may have been the lye solution they just poured out and they may have used water in the wine jug.

Added 125 mL naptha, then filled 1-gallon wine jug with water to an inch from the top: this may be important because it's twice as much water proportionately as the tek normally calls for, since they halved everything else in the recipe but still used a 1-gallon wine jug.

Let sit 3 hours, then used a baster to put the clear stuff on top into two small bowls which were then set in a long flat tupperware container with the lid closed almost completely on top of it. Didn't have saran wrap so SWIM thought glassware set inside of tupperware might work. Could SWIM just use tupperware on it's own?

Is there a way to tell if the solution used at the part where SWIM should've added the lye solution, actually was the lye solution or just water?

What would happen if it was just water?

And if SWIM did mess it up, could it be saved or is it too late?

SWIM apologizes, but has a hard time understanding the chemical concepts behind this.

Ok, so SWIM let the naptha solution from the first time sit in those bowls in the freezer for about 10 hours, and didn't see any crystals starting to form, and didn't have any residue on the filter after he filtered them. So he assumed the lye wasn't added in the original basification step. Took the naptha and set it aside for later use. Note that at this point there was no clear layer of naptha still on top of the wine jug. Added 35 g of lye to maybe half a cup of water (this was a very violent reaction, he noted, and the water turned very yellow) poured that into the wine jug. Immediately a layer of clear naptha began to form at the top (even though all of it was pulled off the first time). Also made it very cloudy, almost like a galaxy cluster viewed from space. SWIM thinks there is a lot of emulsions and wonders if this is normal. SWIM pulled off the clear layer from the top that formed immediately, but is letting the rest of it sit, so more can rise to the top, but put that first clear layer in the freezer to see if crystals start to form.

 

[Dancing Tree]

Done 2 tests:

Acacia Tortilis leafs A/B:
Boiled ~20g of leafs with 1 part lemon juice 2 parts water. Was left with about 200ml thick soup
DEFATTING: added ether (about 100ml) and shaked very well but it was immediatly seperated and stayed transparent.
Took the solution to ~12pH with NAoH.
Added about 100ml ether but still the same, doesn't mix. Evaported and nothing.

Acacia Raddiana Bark STB:
Broke and twisted about 300g (roughly assuming) of the bark into a bowl with water brought to 13pH with NAoH. Squeezed a lot with potato mesher. After two hours about 200mg of the soup was taked for test: Added ~100mg of warm white gas...It bubled a bit but settled and seperated almost as fast as the ether in the previous test..... Evaporation.. and nothing. Not a single crystal.

WTF...

 

[HappyCamper]

SWIM found some M.E.K. at home depot. Is that any good for a STB?

 

[trancepants]

In any of the teks where a lye-water solution is added to MHRB, are there any time constraints as to when to move on to the pulls? Could SWIM leave it over-night and start with the pulls the next morning? Thanks, speedy responses appreciated!

 

[memo]

No problem leaving it overnight. SWIM leaves it overnight plenty of times after the first pull with no apparent losses in the second pull. SWIM puts his mixture into a crock pot so that when he adds his naptha it will get hot but not too hot so that it will hold as much spice as possible and will lead to greater yields during the freeze precip. SWIM just unplugs the crock pot if he is going to leave it overnight.

 

[Infundibulum]

Done 2 tests:

Acacia Tortilis leafs A/B:
Boiled ~20g of leafs with 1 part lemon juice 2 parts water. Was left with about 200ml thick soup
DEFATTING: added ether (about 100ml) and shaked very well but it was immediatly seperated and stayed transparent.
Took the solution to ~12pH with NAoH.
Added about 100ml ether but still the same, doesn't mix. Evaported and nothing.

Acacia Raddiana Bark STB:
Broke and twisted about 300g (roughly assuming) of the bark into a bowl with water brought to 13pH with NAoH. Squeezed a lot with potato mesher. After two hours about 200mg of the soup was taked for test: Added ~100mg of warm white gas...It bubled a bit but settled and seperated almost as fast as the ether in the previous test..... Evaporation.. and nothing. Not a single crystal.

WTF...

How much spice do these plants contain? SWIM couldn't find any information ATM, does SWIY have any idea of expected yields? There is no reason working on plant material that has nothing just based on rumours from the internet. Nobody seems to be using these plants.

Also, I presume that by saying "~100mg of warm gas" or "200mg of the soup" SWIY means actually "~100ml of warm gas" or "200ml. Right?

 

[Infundibulum]

SWIM found some M.E.K. at home depot. Is that any good for a STB?

No, MEK is miscible with water,

 

[HappyCamper]

SWIM is considering buying a soxhlet. Would running the soxhlet through the bark with some ethanol replace the vinegar stage in a A/B? That way he could just defat the ethanol and then basify it?
This isn't really about extractions, but I don't know where else to put it. How does this forum's ranking system work?

 

[boogie989]

hey guise,

SWIM has done Noman's tek. 1.5 l of water -> 5 tbs of lye -> 1/4 lb mimosa -> shaken not stirred -> toluene -> rolled and left for a 5-6 hours -> sucked out the toluene on top and threw it in the freezer for 24 hours (SWIM saw a few white little powder things in the toluene) -> SWIM took it out put it through a coffee filter and poof! nothing on the coffee filter! just toluene on the bottom.

SWIM collected the toluene in disappointment, threw it back in the freezer, and is wondering what SWIM did wrong..

help or advice will be greatly appreciated

 

[arimane]

Little help guys.
I'm approaching noman's tek, and I'll have pre-powder MHRB, should I double the distilled water amount?
And... why is that?

also, is it really a problem using lighter(zippo) fluid, or is just an impurity- more time to evaporate- problem?
Here in Italy is really difficoult to get some non-polar solvent


Thanks =)

 

[Infundibulum]

Little help guys.
I'm approaching noman's tek, and I'll have pre-powder MHRB, should I double the distilled water amount?
And... why is that?

also, is it really a problem using lighter(zippo) fluid, or is just an impurity- more time to evaporate- problem?
Here in Italy is really difficoult to get some non-polar solvent


Thanks =)

Hi,

The reason that the Noman tek asks for more water is that prepowdered bark has the ability to soak up much more water than home-ground MHRB (it has more surface area). This makes the bark/lye/water solution more "viscous" and the non-polar solvent will possibly stay trapped in it and will not separate out. Adding 1.5 - 2 times more water will make separation much easier, faster and will not affect the efficiency of the extraction.

Zippo fluid works beautifully and it evaporates fairly fast. Spice can also be freeze precipitated efficiently out of zippo fluid and zippo fluid can be re-used quite a few times. This is good for cutting down costs as zippo fluid is not the cheapest of the solvents.

Hope that helps!

 

[arimane]

that helped A LOT, thanks =)

So, doubling the water without doubling the HCl, right?
That's my last noob question for a while, I promise =)

 

[Fakkz]

hey guise,

SWIM has done Noman's tek. 1.5 l of water -> 5 tbs of lye -> 1/4 lb mimosa -> shaken not stirred -> toluene -> rolled and left for a 5-6 hours -> sucked out the toluene on top and threw it in the freezer for 24 hours (SWIM saw a few white little powder things in the toluene) -> SWIM took it out put it through a coffee filter and poof! nothing on the coffee filter! just toluene on the bottom.

SWIM collected the toluene in disappointment, threw it back in the freezer, and is wondering what SWIM did wrong..

help or advice will be greatly appreciated

Toluene does not freeze precipitate. DMT is to soluble in it. For freeze precipitation you would need to use naptha, heptane, or another solvent like that. I believe they are called light hydrocarbon solvents. Toluene, like xylene, is a aromatic solvent. They cannot be freeze precipitated, you will have to evaporate them or use FASA. Aromatic solvents will pull things other than n,n DMT, like DMT n-oxide and jungle spice. These are both safe to smoke, but have a different feel to them that some prefer to standard DMT.

Aromatic solvents are a pain to evaporate. They take a long time, smell a LOT, and can persist in the final product if you are not carefull. I suggest after it has finished evaporating, scrape it all up, put it in a shot glass, add some acetone, and dissolve it all in that. Then pour it out to evaporate again. This will help to get rid of the traces of toluene. You may need to repeat that a couple of times, but it is worth it.

 

[Fakkz]

that helped A LOT, thanks =)

So, doubling the water without doubling the HCl, right?
That's my last noob question for a while, I promise =)

There is no HCl in Noman's tek, it is a Straight to Base tek, without the need for an acid. I assume you meant NaOH. SWIM has found that there is no need to double, 1.5X is plenty. That goes for water and lye.