"The epimerization you are describing with ololiuqui (and others) is a highly specific chemical reaction that only affects a certain class of the plant's alkaloids. This basic environment triggers epimerization at the C-8 position of the ergoline ring, but it requires a specific structural vulnerability to work. This makes the C-8 proton relatively acidic. The alkaline water easily removes this proton, creating a resonance-stabilized enolate intermediate. When the molecule reprotonates, it can do so from either face, creating an equilibrium between the (8R)-epimer (e.g., ergine) and the (8S)-epimer (e.g., isoergine). Instead of a carboxamide group at C-8, lysergol has a hydroxymethyl group. It lacks the electron-withdrawing carbonyl group and cannot form an enolate intermediate. The C-8 proton in lysergol is simply not acidic enough to be stripped away by a mild base. Therefore, the traditional ash preparation is not harsh enough to force lysergol to epimerize into isolysergol; it remains entirely stable."
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Research ololuiqui/muricata entourage-effect under basic aqueous conditions
- Thread starter braindead
- Start date
Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
- Status
An attribution would be helpful here. What's the context of this quote? It's talking about structural correlates of susceptibility to epimerisation, not specifically directly about 'entourage effect', which is a downstream consequence of a given mixed alkaloidal profile.
It's specifically about the entourage effect of a 3:1 ILSA/LSA ratio.
I get that, the question is:
Where is this quoted from?
Furthermore:
What is the ascribed entourage effect from this epimeric mixture? Is it an equilibrated mixture? How are the equilibrium conditions attained?
The epimerisation described by whom?
Journal references for this interesting snippet would be most welcome.
I totally get that high pH (such as would be found in wood ash preparations) favours epimerisation at tertiary carbon atoms adjacent to a carbonyl group. In this example the 9,10 double bond, conjugated to the indole moiety in lysergic acid derivatives, also serves to facilitate epimerisation by providing an extra vehicle for charge distribution.
The observation regarding the use of ash in at least one traditional ololiuqui preparation method is genuinely interested, so thanks for sharing!
"it immediately begins clogging BCRP efflux transporters. This concentrated local action makes the walls of the mouth significantly more porous, allowing other alkaloids to slip through unchallenged. Once in circulation, the lysergol reaches the blood-brain barrier ahead of the other compounds, where it continues to disable these cellular bouncers at the brain's gates. This ensures that the primary active ingredients have an unobstructed path to their target receptors, effectively using the cheek as a direct highway that bypasses typical cellular resistance."
Breast cancer resistance protein? Again, it would be very helpful if you could provide a source for these quotes.
Taking these quotes in combination, put in your own words, how does this impact the central activity of convolvulaceous lysergamides when compared to a 'non-entourage' situation?
Interesting claim that lysergol acts as a cellular efflux inhibitor - citation still required, however.
Hm, OK: https://pdf.benchchem.com/1675/The_...hnical_Guide_to_its_Therapeutic_Potential.pdf
M. Shukla, M. Y. Malik, S. Jaiswal, A. Sharma, D. K. Tanpula, R. Goyanid and J. Lal: A mechanistic investigation of the bioavailability enhancing potential of lysergol, a novel bioenhancer, using curcumin. RSC Adv., 2016,6, 58933-58942
doi.org
Thanks for the tips; any (list of) further references will be most gratefully received.
Example efflux inhibition article:
M. Shukla, M. Y. Malik, S. Jaiswal, A. Sharma, D. K. Tanpula, R. Goyanid and J. Lal: A mechanistic investigation of the bioavailability enhancing potential of lysergol, a novel bioenhancer, using curcumin. RSC Adv., 2016,6, 58933-58942
A mechanistic investigation of the bioavailability enhancing potential of lysergol, a novel bioenhancer, using curcumin
Lysergol (LYZ), a novel bioenhancer, has shown potential to enhance the bioavailability of some antibiotics. In the present investigation, the bioavailability enhancing potential of LYZ on curcumin (CUR) has been explored. We initially carried out in vivo pharmacokinetic and in situ permeation...
doi.org
Thanks for the tips; any (list of) further references will be most gratefully received.
"lpomoea muelleri might be the most promising thus far. Moderate levels of all three, much lower ergometrine than tricolor but an addition of indole diterpenes. I wouldn't recommend eating these raw but they should be suitable otherwise."
Where does that PDF mention the entourage effect, epimerization, or BCRP efflux transporters?
Also, bear in mind that document seems to have been LLM generated by a chemical products vendor. Each and every one of the substances they sell has around 30 PDFs with a similar smell of having been generated.
Where does this come from? Who/what are you quoting?
Last edited:
Yes, you have stated that previously. Who taught you that? That's what we are asking.
Is your source by any chance an LLM? If not, they should come post here directly, as it will be easier to communicate with someone directly rather than by proxy.
New sources of ergoline alkaloids within the genus Ipomoea
The concentrations of ergoline alkaloids and their two-dimensional TLC chromatographic profiles were studied in seeds of 43 spp. of Ipornoea. Some 20% of the species were ergoline alkaloid-positive; elymoclavine was detected in seven of the species
www.academia.edu
That is your source for what? Once again,New sources of ergoline alkaloids within the genus Ipomoea
The concentrations of ergoline alkaloids and their two-dimensional TLC chromatographic profiles were studied in seeds of 43 spp. of Ipornoea. Some 20% of the species were ergoline alkaloid-positive; elymoclavine was detected in seven of the specieswww.academia.edu
If you keep only posting quotes with unclear intention and unclear source, while not making clear what you are quoting and why, you will be banned for a day, because this only adds noise. So please try to communicate your sources and intention.
The thread is about the entourage effect of specific alkaloids produced by unnamed fungal symbiotes of ipomoea species. This research is geared towards identifying the least harmful of these unnamed species while simultaneously carefully monitoring key alkaloid concentrations to achieve that effect.
See you on May 1st, when you come back please post your own words and be clear in your communications, it will be better for everyone.
I'm locking this thread as there seems to be no point to it, and I suspect we've just been interacting with an LLM by proxy. @Transform if I'm missing something or you think the topic itself is interesting despite the low quality of the posts, feel free to re-open it.
I'm locking this thread as there seems to be no point to it, and I suspect we've just been interacting with an LLM by proxy. @Transform if I'm missing something or you think the topic itself is interesting despite the low quality of the posts, feel free to re-open it.
- Status
