On Dale Pendell and DMT

[inaniel]

The Pharmako trilogy are at the moment my favorite books to delve into. I haven't read them all in their entirety, or in chronological order, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the many passages I've read. Pendell's wit, intelligence and poetic nature is something to behold. There has been one thing that has bothered me a bit, though, and that is his seemingly negative opinion on DMT. Here are some of the things found in the chapter "The Topology of the Between: DMT"

Alan Watts dubbed it not too interesting

DMT can have a cartoon quality[...] the main problem of DMT art, aside from the ubiquitous presence of spiritual cliches, is its embarrassing obviousness. Subtlety is not one of DMT's qualities. DMT art (and I'm referring to smoked DMT) seems like an island culture - there's an inner consistency to it. It's about other worlds but so many of them look the same; its about another dimension but a particular dimension.

He goes on to say before his trip report;


[quote="Pendell]I wasn't anxious to meet terence's elves, or, really, any of it. [...]For me DMT had been too celluloid, too much like a wild animated cartoon. If there is great meaning there, by now we should have some evidence, from those who have frequented the realm. [/quote]




I wonder if his background in buddhist seems to influence his experience, or if I am the one in fact mis-interpreting his thoughts as negative. What do you gentle men and women feel about this?

 

[Hyperdimensional Cuttlefish]

I had a couple of immediate thoughts:
-if there is an internal consistency to the experience, I think that makes it MORE interesting. Whether it's purely a neurochemical reaction or tapping into a great unknown mystery... it's a facet of our potential to interact with the universe, and that's damn remarkable.

-re: celluloid and cartoonish quality. Yes, a lot of the trips I have taken can be crazy, colorful and not-so-subtle... But other times it's dark, quiet and very "delicate" feeling... I just called it "The Hush", because it makes all the discursive thought dissipate like a drop of soap onto an oily film.

I will have to look into those books. Thanks

 

[drfaust]

Interesting.

I've been a reader of Dale's work for some time. I take it lightly and poetically. His work on DMT feels dated at this point, however. At this point he'd be reading the nexus for his research, for example.

In one sense, I think he does a fine job with the early history and he leaves the door open for further exploration. But, the nexus has supplanted the old with new experience and I think he would now revise some of his statements.

His critique and reading of Strassman and Mckenna are both pretty spot on from my vantage, so I'd say he shines as a kind of literary critic of writings on DMT there.

One of his aims in each chapter is to get the "signature" of the ally and to poetically capture some of the nuances and particularities of each "ally".

I'd be interested in hearing from others if they think he gets the signature of DMT. I'd say he does, somewhat. But perhaps it is too colored by the early lore?

DMT is a tricky one indeed.

 

[Global]

Alan Watts dubbed it not too interesting

We have to recall that he was smoking synthetic DMT that was most likey cruder in purity than what modern extractions allow for, and that he very well may have been smoking it ineffectively at that. Nevertheless, everyone is entitled to their opinion. One of my friends is one of the biggest hard heads when it comes to DMT, and despite large doses and effective administration, not much happens for him, so he does not find it all too interesting either.

DMT can have a cartoon quality[...] the main problem of DMT art, aside from the ubiquitous presence of spiritual cliches, is its embarrassing obviousness. Subtlety is not one of DMT's qualities. DMT art (and I'm referring to smoked DMT) seems like an island culture - there's an inner consistency to it. It's about other worlds but so many of them look the same; its about another dimension but a particular dimension.

I find this statement to be accurate in regards to the inner consistency. I find those spiritual "cliches" to be fascinating considering their occurrence in the "natural" world (i.e. not temples/churches/art constructed by man). DMT can indeed have a cartoony quality at times. I am rather fond of these elements, so I suppose this is a matter of preference.


[quote="Pendell]I wasn't anxious to meet terence's elves, or, really, any of it. [...]For me DMT had been too celluloid, too much like a wild animated cartoon. If there is great meaning there, by now we should have some evidence, from those who have frequented the realm. [/quote]

This is in itself a cliche. Whether talking about DMT or other fringe subjects, it's all too common to hear, "if there was something to it, we should know by now," and that just translates to: either you aren't looking hard enough or you are rejecting any evidence that comes your way de facto, that the style of evidence you are seeking does not exist, which does not negate any sort of truth values or that the evidence has simply yet to be found. There is an austerely grand sort of arrogance in asserting such statements.

 

[waitwhatwhere]

I recently read Dale Pendell’s Pharmokognosis: Plant Teaches and the Poison Path and was struck by how uninformed and frankly n00bish Pendell came off when it came to DMT. Since this sounds a bit unkind to an otherwise delightful author, I will say that his writing on LSD was fantastic, his coverage of peyote enlightening, and his discussion of the other allies in the book was overall thoroughly pleasurable to read. I absolutely recommend (and have recommended) Pendell’s work on the sacred use of plant medicines. But the DMT chapter: To my reading it seemed woefully incomplete, heavily influenced by too few perspectives, and overly reliant on popular accounts which all-too-consistently neglect to acknowledge the sheer power and depth of experience available to those who approach this molecule with intension, courage, and humility.

The DMT chapter, more than any of the other personally vulnerable accounts shared in Pharmokognosis, actually served to fully humanize Pendell for me. As in, this man is clearly an authority on deep plant-based spiritual experience, and yet he is just a person like everyone else, with a limited and specific set of particular expertise. It was included towards the end of the book, written disappointingly as almost an afterthought rather than the capstone I had anticipated it to be.

When Pendell writes of peyote and LSD, as readers we know that he is a beneficiary of the knowledge of several unnamed (and no doubt glorious) hippie gurus and vegetalistas. Because peyote has history and context and LSD has popularity and wide experimentation. Given that pure DMT was introduced to the West no earlier than 1956 and has been illegal since the 70’s, DMT teachers, the ones who set you up right with technique and setting to help facilitate deep connections with...something…well, we are still in the process of minting those. That said, if you run into one of these rare animals as I had the inexplicable luck to have had, wrap your elbows around your knees and listen up. This whole website is a testament to the fact that there’s a pretty fucking steep learning curve with DMT, and many have trouble with the first couple go-arounds and confidently declare that there is nothing much to see here. Aesop once wrote a fable about a fox and some sour grapes.

 

[drfaust]

I recently read Dale Pendell’s Pharmokognosis: Plant Teaches and the Poison Path and was struck by how uninformed and frankly n00bish Pendell came off when it came to DMT. Since this sounds a bit unkind to an otherwise delightful author, I will say that his writing on LSD was fantastic, his coverage of peyote enlightening, and his discussion of the other allies in the book was overall thoroughly pleasurable to read. I absolutely recommend (and have recommended) Pendell’s work on the sacred use of plant medicines. But the DMT chapter: To my reading it seemed woefully incomplete, heavily influenced by too few perspectives, and overly reliant on popular accounts which all-too-consistently neglect to acknowledge the sheer power and depth of experience available to those who approach this molecule with intension, courage, and humility.

The DMT chapter, more than any of the other personally vulnerable accounts shared in Pharmokognosis, actually served to fully humanize Pendell for me. As in, this man is clearly an authority on deep plant-based spiritual experience, and yet he is just a person like everyone else, with a limited and specific set of particular expertise. It was included towards the end of the book, written disappointingly as almost an afterthought rather than the capstone I had anticipated it to be.

When Pendell writes of peyote and LSD, as readers we know that he is a beneficiary of the knowledge of several unnamed (and no doubt glorious) hippie gurus and vegetalistas. Because peyote has history and context and LSD has popularity and wide experimentation. Given that pure DMT was introduced to the West no earlier than 1956 and has been illegal since the 70’s, DMT teachers, the ones who set you up right with technique and setting to help facilitate deep connections with...something…well, we are still in the process of minting those. That said, if you run into one of these rare animals as I had the inexplicable luck to have had, wrap your elbows around your knees and listen up. This whole website is a testament to the fact that there’s a pretty fucking steep learning curve with DMT, and many have trouble with the first couple go-arounds and confidently declare that there is nothing much to see here. Aesop once wrote a fable about a fox and some sour grapes.

Nice comment. I think you did a fine job of respecting his work. What's the Blake line, "opposition is true friendship." Part of respect is careful criticism. He did ask in that DMT movie, "perhaps something is being missed here?"

And he does some fine house cleaning here. He was clever in his critique of Strassman, for example as a "literalist" who collapsed the encounter with ally into, at that time, a monovalent sci-fi register. And now Strassam is a monovalent monotheist. So points for Dale there.

 

[jamie]

I think it's simple really, Pendell just does not care for vaped DMT.

I can't blame him. I have often had to just put the pipe aside for months at a time, feeling like the experience is devoid of much context and of little use for personal growth compared to oral tryptamines.

Other times it's been quite useful to me...but if I had to choose I would pick oral psychedelics as a real ally. Everyone is different, so I do not see the point in trying to figure out what went wrong with his DMT use etc that made him feel this way. I am sure he had real DMT, good technique etc and just did not find it all that compelling compared to these other things.

He would not be the first, nor the last.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Vaped DMT always seemed like too much too fast to me. Like Jamie, I'm more of an oral allies kind of person. I have a hard to time recalling my DMT experiences - it is like dreaming: you wake up with memories of amazing things, but after a while, you sort of loose it. It doesn't feel as impactful as something like mushrooms.

Blessings
~ND