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One newbs questions on mescaline

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N

Nope

Rising Star
1) why would naphtha not work for either an a/b or stb?

2) not interested in lye.

3) is there an easy way to modify q21s tek? Maybe just replace the naphtha with d-limounene?

One million points to you for reading this!
 
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Naphtha will not work well because mescalines solubility in naphtha is very low. I have tried and failed. Xylene on the other hand works great.

In place of lye, sodium carbonate should be just fine for A/B or STB. The only caveat with STB is to make sure the plant material is powdered or cooked down to pull first.
 
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Is calcium hydroxide an acceptable base?

Ideally I would like to find the most food safe least noxious chems. Doesn't xylene smell awful?
 
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Yes I looked around there first and every sticky thread and other one I looked at was dealing almost exclusively with lye and xylene, and I will not be using either of those ever. Also I can't post there to ask for any clarification.

I will be doing more reading either way but I didn't see anything that looked like a mostly food safe method or a variable of q21s, plus there's disagreement about whether or when to shake, whether dry or wet ways produce more "mucus" etc

Being unable to post my questions there, here we are.
 
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?

Okay. No I didn't as I'm usually on my phone and search functions don't usually give me what I want on them.

I actually find throwaway comments by experts to usually be more fruitful than anything else. I also meant (as you well know) that I can't post outside the newb area.

I'm pretty bored of explaining/defending myself at this point however. Either this is a place where we can gather and ask questions or its a place where people will repeatedly post snark and I'll go back to being just a guest.

Why is it naphtha works well for dmt but not mescaline if both are alkaloids?
 
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My intention was not to post snark, but rather to indicate two things:

1) The questions you're asking are not difficult to answer on your own with minimal research. We encourage members to engage in this research rather than asking for spoonfeeding. We state this explicitly in the attitude. Considering that a simple google search returns a truly significant number of hits, I'm trying to steer you towards realizing the kind of research we expect members to do before posting questions.

2) You are able to post the questions in the forums available to you. You do not need to have posting privileges to read the relevant threads. So between being able to research the threads you need and post additional questions here or elsewhere, membership status should not be an impediment to your participation. No one is going to make a fuss over new members posting questions in the forums they have access to because they can't post in other forums, it's understood as part of the limitations of being a new member.

As to your question re: DMT vs Mescaline...

Just because a compound is an alkaloid does not mean it will have a given solubility. Different alkaloids have different solubilities, and their solubilities also depend on whether they are in salt (and which particular salt) or freebase form. Here's a brief overview of how solubilities are at play in a DMT extraction. Hopefully this helps shine some light on your question:

Entropymancer said:
How DMT Extractions work - The Chemical Principles

All DMT extraction teks are based on the relative solubilities of the DMT in it's protonated and unprotonated form. What does that mean exactly?

Lets start out with a crash-course some basic chemical principles. If you're familiar with acid/base equilibria and polar vs nonpolar solvents, feel free to skip ahead. If you don't want a chemistry lesson, likewise feel free to skip this section (though if you come across unfamiliar chemical terms in the extraction overview, check back here for definitions). All important terms are in bold so you can glance back and check the definition if you forget what it means.



Acids and Bases

A proton is a positively hydrogen ion, H+. The transfer of protons is the entire basis of acid/base chemistry. An acid is a molecule that can donate a proton. A base is a molecule that can acquire a proton.

Every acid has a conjugate base; for example, when acetic acid (CH3COOH) gives up the proton on its -COOH group (incidentally, this is called a "carboxylic acid"Pleased, its conjugate base is the acetate anion (CH3COO-). Thus acetic acid and acetate are called a "conjugate pair". Likewise, every base has a conjugate acid; for example, when ammonia (NH3) aquires a proton, its conjugate acid is an ammonium cation (NH4+). (Ammonia and ammonium are another conjugate pair).

Just a bit of terminology: An when a molecule carries a charge, we call it an ion. If it's positively charged, we call it a cation; if it's negatively charged, we call it an anion.



pH and pKa

The relative concentrations of each member of a conjugate pair in solution is determined by the pH. The lower the pH, the more protons there are in solution, and bases are eager to grab them up. The higher the pH, the less protons there are in solution, and the more eager the conjugate acids are to be rid of them. Low pH solutions are referred to as acidic, while high pH solutions are referred to as alkaline, or basic.

The pH where the concentrations of a base and its conjugate acid are equal is called the "pKa" of that conjugate pair. Above the pKa, more of the molecule exists in its base form; below the pKa, more of the molecule exists as its conjugate acid.

DMT is a neutral (uncharged) base, sometimes called a "freebase" because the uncharged ("free"Pleased base can be obtained as a solid. The pKa of DMT is 8.68. Above pH 8.68, it exists primarily in its neutral (uncharged) freebase form. Below pH 8.68, it exists primarily in its positively charged acid form.

[image]/forums/thumbs/08-45/574231359-thumb_DMT_baseacid.jpg[/image]




Salts

Often the protonated form of DMT will associate with a "counterion". When ions associate to form an complex with a net charge of 0, we call this a salt . Since DMT bears a positive charge, it must associate with a negatively charged ion in order to form a neutral salt. For example, if we acidify a solution of DMT using acetic acid, then the DMT will predominantly assume its charged (protonated) conjugate acid form, and will tend to associate with acetate ion (CH3COO-), the conjugate base of the acetic acid we used to acidify the solution. We would call the resulting salt DMT acetate.

So what does all this have to do with extracting DMT? Don't worry, we only need to talk about one more piece of the puzzle to start making sense of it.



Solvents

A solvent is a liquid in which other molecules can be dissolved. In the case of extractions, we're interested in dissolving DMT. For our purposes, there are two types of solvents: polar solvents, and nonpolar solvents. In polar solvents (like water and ethanol), polar compounds like salts and ions tend to be highly soluble (that is, they dissolve easily), while less polar compounds like hydrocarbons and neutral organic molecules (like DMT freebase) tend to be relatively insoluble (that is, they tend not to dissolve). In nonpolar solvents (like naphtha and dichloromethane) polar compounds tend to be insoluble, while less polar compounds tend to be more soluble. When polar and nonpolar solvents are mixed together, they typically stay seperated as two seperate layers, or "phases". Oil and water is the classic example of this phenomenon.

This is a simplified explanation, but it'll serve well enough to explain the basic principles of the process.


Now let's bring it all back home with respect to extracting DMT:

In acidic water, DMT exists predominantly in its protonated form, either as a cation or a salt. Since the protonated form of DMT is relatively polar, DMT is quite soluble in acidic water. In alkaline water, DMT exists predominantly in its freebase form. While the freebase is not particularly soluble in water, it's not so insoluble that it falls out of solution or forms a seperate layer. But if we were to mix an alkaline solution of DMT with a nonpolar solvent, since the DMT freebase is much more soluble in the nonpolar solvent, much of it will migrate from the polar solvent to the nonpolar solvent.

This is the basis of almost every DMT extraction.

That covers the theory side of things pretty well, now let's talk about the practical side of things.
Click to expand...
 
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After familiarizing yourself with the Attitude and the FAQ. The best place to seek information (particularly on materials other than DMT) is the Wiki.

You can read about the solubility of mescaline there as well as explore a variety of extraction methodologies.

That's where you are going to find the droid you seek.

Haapi extracting 8)

P.S.- The answers most useful for other information seekers and thus forum posterity come about when the querent has familiarized themselves with the basic foundational information and exhausted all readily available resources and thus can direct specified inquiries that clarify, advance, or build upon the foundational information.
 
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dreamer042 said:
After familiarizing yourself with the Attitude and the FAQ. The best place to seek information (particularly on materials other than DMT) is the Wiki.

You can read about the solubility of mescaline there as well as explore a variety of extraction methodologies.

That's where you are going to find the droid you seek.

Haapi extracting 8)

P.S.- The answers most useful for other information seekers and thus forum posterity come about when the querent has familiarized themselves with the basic foundational information and exhausted all readily available resources and thus can direct specified inquiries that clarify, advance, or build upon the foundational information.
Click to expand...


THANK YOU

Edit. I had actually already read this guide, but not having d limonene at the moment is what lead to me inquiring about the naptha.

Yes I get it read read read. Ora lege lege lege relege labora et invenies after all.

However sometimes it's refreshing to just ask out loud where someone who can answer might help out as opposed to the endlessly pouring over text on my own. That mescaline is insoluble in naphtha is a life saver as I work full time and barely cover my bills, can't afford to waste any part of any materials like that really. So a million thanks for that tip.

Back to the lab again yo.

Further edit. Perhaps I should clarify, I meant I literally did not use the search function for those terms, not that I didn't trying to read and clarify things myself at all.
 
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