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Opinions & advice on Ayahuasca plan wanted

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Attention All Shipping

Rising Star
I've tried pharmahuasca a few times and I'm planning to try the real thing shortly, I just want to get some advice on properly brewing it & on my plans
Please don't advise mimosa & syrian rue as I'm not interested in that.
The ingredients I'm planning to use are:
Banisteriopsis Caapi - 50g
Diplopterys Cabrenera - 15g
Psychotria Virides - 25g
Tabernaemontana Sananho - Not too sure but think 15g. I'm adding this as I've read its used for poor memory & spiritual development, both of which are issues for me.

What do you thnk of those quantities for a 70kg male? I'm a bit of a hardhead generally so I'd rather have a good quntity than risk having a mild/halfhearted experience.

For the B. Caapi I've the option of Ourinhos/Yellow (shredded) or White (whole). I'm thinking yellow but I'd welcome advice.

I'm planning to simmer down from 3l of water, then strain & simmer down from 2l, repeating once more. I'm not entirely certain the final volume of combined brew I should be aiming for - I was thinking 500ml.
As far as my other plans go I was going to spend the day brewing & while that's going on clean the house and prepare myself mentally, as much as its possible to do so, relaxing and focussing my thoughts on the issues I want to deal with and that I want the spirits help with.

I was then going to take the Ayahuasca in the evening/night though I'm uncertain whether it'd be better to wait till daylight on the next dy or not - anyone got any experience on this. I'm a bit wary of daylight as I know I'd want to go outside and might have to deal with people.
I've got a cd of Icaros and have some on the computer, though I don't really want to have it on at the time so I may burn them to a cd.
I've also got some incense recently and was thinking of using it during the Ayahuasca experience.
As far as diet goes I'm going to keep food toa minimum before the experience, possibly fasting, though I'm not sticking to the dieta I will be avoiding food while on the Ayahuasca.
I will have a bin for the purge.

I think thats about it, what do you think? any advice, have I forgotten anything or is there anything I should do differently?
 
All this is totally fictional because of course i would never actually brew or drink ayahuasca.



Your caapi dose(50gms)is good that is what i use for a normal dose.if you want to purge you might need more i never get sick at all with 50 grams.

The chaliponga dose is high if you have good leaf.Sometimes 5 gms is a good dose especially if you add chacruna.I have never gotten good chacruna though i have brewed 100 grams before with barely a threshold effect.i am not a hard head though.

Yellow caapi is supposed to be for begginers and white is a step up i dont know i think it depends on a lot of things.

I always brew the caapi and admixture seperately because that works for me.
The caapi can be boiled fairly well the harmalas wont be harmed.Just stir it often so it dosnt burn.Simmering never worked for me and it takes a long time.

The chaliponga i usually reduce with less heat for 30 minutes three times.It dosnt seem to need a lot of time.

It takes me about 4-5 hours for the whole thing.500ml is a good start just add as needed.for 50grams 2 liters is too much.

I like to reduce to 50ml for 50gms its like a shot or two but very concentrated.500ml is a lot to me but it will be more diluted it depends on what you want to do.

All this is a general guide, you have to find your own way with the brew and do what works for you.

I would do it at night.I like to be outdoors on a clear night so i can see the stars.But sometimes it gets intense and i just have to lie on the bed and soar thru the cosmos.
 
I've no idea of the quality of the d. cabrerana or P. Virides: P.V. leaf is from my own plants so hopefully that'll help.
I reckon I'll just brew it all together, don't have that many pots to brew seperately.
If 2L is too much what should I start with 1L? and re-brew in fresh water 3 times?

Thanks for the advice
 
I would suggest starting with only chacruna for the DMT content, at least at first.
Unless you are very familiar with the effects of the alkaloid mix in chaliponga, it is a mind fucker!!
More than just the DMT's in there.
And 15g is a pretty large dose on its own!!!

50g Caapi/50g Chacruna is a fairly mind-to-normal dose for most folks.
Upping the Caapi content, before upping the Chacruna content is usually a decent plan too.
Like 75g Caapi/50g CHacruna is much, much more visual & powerful overall.

When you say Pharma-huasca, what kind do you mean?
Most are quite different from a natural plant brewing.
The only kind of pharma I've experienced that truly resembled a real Ayahuasca dose (a Caapi/Chacruna dose that is) was using DMT fumarate & a mix of pure Harmalas.
45mg DMT fumarate
45mg tetrahydroharmine (HCL)
55mg harmine (Freebase)
5mg harmaline (Freebase)
It was exactly like a Caapi/Chacruna brew, sans the purging.
Instead it was like there was no need to puke up the negative energy, as it was not weighed down by the sludge. So it was able to ascended at my will & diffused away.
If that makes any sense...

Combining 25g Chacruna with 15g Chaliponga would probably be heavy for an experienced Ayahuasca drinker.
Chaliponga contains mainly 5MeO-DMT, N,N-DMT & 4HO-DMT, some has a very high 5MeO-DMT content and that alone can be a heavy!!
But there is also a number of other very weird & kind of Salvia-like alkaloids that can be a real white-knuckler at 15g!!

I've no idea of the quality of the d. cabrerana or P. Virides: P.V. leaf is from my own plants so hopefully that'll help.
Click to expand...
This is the biggest reason to start with a modest brew, if your plants have high content of alkaloids, it could get way too deep, way too fast.
Or, on the other side, there might be something in there at a high level that is completely uncommon in other strains, this could be a good thing or a dangerous thing!!
Best to start small, if you are using natural sources you are unfamiliar with, they tend to vary from plant to plant a lot!!

If you really want to add some Chaliponga to your brew, maybe add like 5g at the most.
A straight up 50/50%, Caapi/Chacruna brew is nothing to take lightly, but tends to be more focused, at least in my experience.

Also, research doing an egg white, or gelatin fining before the final reduction to remove most, if not all of the plant tannins.
These are like mud & sink to the bottom of your stomach & weigh heavy on it, making you more likely to puke because of the extra crap in your stomach rather than a spiritual purge brought, on by the power of the Ayahusca. There is quite a difference between the two...


Cheers man!

WS
 
Wow, useful information.
I'll cut down the Chaliponga dose to about 5g and I may increase the caapi quantity a wee bit. I got my Virides from a comercial entheogen plant supplier so I doubt there's anything unusual in there, though I don't know alkaloid strength.

When I said pharmahuasca I meant I've done extracted DMT (freebase & HCL) with harmala extract (lemon juice extract with diffent quantities of harmine/harmaline), so I think I know what to expect from the DMT/harmala (famous last words) though the THH and other alkaloids will be a new dimension for me - in more ways than one.

I've seen it recommended elsewhere to add a little vinegar or lemoon juice to the mix while brewing to strengthen the effects, I'm don't think I'm going to do that this time but do you know if its beneficial.

I'll look into the egg white.
 
I know they add all kinds of stuff but I would say true, pure Ayahuasca for use as an entheogens consists ONLY of Caapi, Psychotria and Diplopterys... maybe Cat's Claw and a couple other traditional ingredients, here is a recipe for a brew-

50-75g Caapi
33g Psychotria
13g Diplopterys
13g Cat's Claw


PM me for an awesome vendor!
 
Attention All Shipping said:
Wow, useful information.
I'll cut down the Chaliponga dose to about 5g and I may increase the caapi quantity a wee bit. I got my Virides from a comercial entheogen plant supplier so I doubt there's anything unusual in there, though I don't know alkaloid strength.

When I said pharmahuasca I meant I've done extracted DMT (freebase & HCL) with harmala extract (lemon juice extract with diffent quantities of harmine/harmaline), so I think I know what to expect from the DMT/harmala (famous last words) though the THH and other alkaloids will be a new dimension for me - in more ways than one.

I've seen it recommended elsewhere to add a little vinegar or lemoon juice to the mix while brewing to strengthen the effects, I'm don't think I'm going to do that this time but do you know if its beneficial.
Click to expand...

What I meant was that a lot of people are better off with using just Chacruna, or just Chaliponga for the fist few times. The two leaves have a considerable difference in effect by themselves, get to know them for who they are individually.

Plus, there is really no reason to rush it, you can always drink more!!
It's a pretty good idea to prepare at least 2 doses for each person who is taking the Ayahuasca in case there is trouble getting the full dose down, or keeping it down long enough to absorb the goods entirely.
That way if someone happens to puke from the taste while drinking or soon after, there is another dose ready for them, if they want it.
This will also provide you with a second dose to take after 45-60 minutes, if things are not coming on as strong as you where wanting. Or when you come down, 3-4 hours later you may want to take another dose to continue the work, or ceremony, or whatever you are doing.

A friend of mine, who is in Peru right now mentioned that this was a normal thing in the Ayahuasca ceremony's he attended there just last month.
He said that they where encouraged by the curendero to drink 3, 4 times in a night! They were doing 3 days of ceremonies in a row...
He explained how sometimes he would return right back to where he was when the brew started to wear off, like he just stepped out of the room for a minute.
Other times, he said it would start over completely fresh & he would go, for example, from a deep, (assisted), introspective life review, to a cleansing ritual.
He also noted that the curendero would react accordingly! He said that he was not changing the ceremony but reacting to what the participants where feeling individually. There where only 4 other people participating.

Getting to know the effects of Chacruna & Chaliponga by themselves will actually help you to make a 2-leaf brew in the future, that gives you the exact effect combination you are wanting. By knowing which leaf you need more or less of to get you where you are wanting to go.

Anyway, sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what to expect!!
Just always keep in mind that using natural sources can vary a lot from brewing to brewing & plant to plant, even year to year as they grow!!
So it's always a smart idea to make a smaller 1-to-2 dose brew every time you are using new plant sources, or a new brewing recipe, to test out the quality & quantity of the alkaloids in the plants, or the efficiency of the brewing method!!

Oh, & it does help to acidify the water with vinegar or lemon juice.
The alks in the plants are in acid (salt) form, so it makes it easier for the good stuff to migrate from the plant matter, into the water when the water is also acid (or is it when it's more acidic?).
However, both of those acids leave behind a pretty shitty taste & that does not help with the fact that Ayahuasca tastes vile in the first place!!
Using an acid that is completely tasteless, or will evaporate completely in the brewing process is a better plan (vinegar evaps off, but leaves it's mark on the taste in a very noticeable way).
I like to use just one or two drops of Phosphoric Acid per 1500-to-3000ml of water (just enough to take the water down to pH4), every time I start another boil (usually done 3x).
Phosphoric Acid has no taste, so it leaves absolutely no taste of it's own behind, like vinegar or lemon juice do & it also evaporates away completely during the reduction stage!
So it's only there when you need it to be, for helping the alks along into the water.
I got it from a DIY Beer Brewing Supplies website, it is used for the exact same reason when brewing your own beer!😉
I think I paid $10-$15 for more than I'll ever be able to use in my lifetime so it's pretty cheap too!

BTW, vinegar in particular gives the Aya a very (or more...) sour/bitter taste that I personally could not even get down. Yuck!!
The only time I had that problem was when I used vinegar for the acid...
You also have to use so much more of it to get the desired pH level in the water, that you will almost always be drinking some vinegar down with the Aya!!
The ideal thing is to end up with nothing in there but water & the alkaloids you want.

WS
 
Thanks WS,

I guess I was wanting to use both because I have them both and I've had experiences in the past where I've only gotten threshold effects and considered it a wasted journey - which I don't want this to be. Actually some of my more beneficial experiences have been the toughest to get through, where I've had too much - not Aya but other things. I don't want a negative experience, though even negative (too strong) experiences can be positive if you take the lessons they teach you, but I'd rather have too strong a brew than too weak. Pity there's not a ph style potency test I could use.

I know what you mean though about getting to know the plants individually before mixing them, I may well just go with the Chacruna today - perhaps 65gChacruna to 60gCaapi to be sure, though I'll need to check my quantities, I should have plenty though as I've been collecting leaves for about 2 years.

I don't have phosphoric acid on hand, though I do have some Citric and Fumaric acids, citric is easier to get ahold of again so would it work as well as vinegar, etc - I think it'd probably have less of an aftertaste.

I'll take you're advice on brewing 2 doses, I already knew that in the Amazonian ceremonies they tend to drink the brew in small quantities plenty of times, rather than just the once like with pharmahuasca, but I was going to just try to get a dose down and keep it down as long as I could - didn't think to have a backup ready incase I couldn't keep it down or didn't get where I wanted. It'll keep in the fridge anyway so no harm in making more than may be needed.
 
Over on the aya fourm, I was reading about people using HCL for the acid in their brew. They brew it down and add water and brew it down and add water and so on until there is no more acid smell or taste coming from the pot while it is boiling. Apperantly this avoid all the nasty taste that vinegar and lemon juice can bring. But if you don't boil all the excess hcl out, your brew will taste like batteries.
 
Yes, I've one large P. Virides and a few smaller ones grown from stem & leaf cuttings.
Click to expand...

Awesome dude, I'm proud of you!

Over on the aya fourm, I was reading about people using HCL for the acid in their brew. They brew it down and add water and brew it down and add water and so on until there is no more acid smell or taste coming from the pot while it is boiling. Apperantly this avoid all the nasty taste that vinegar and lemon juice can bring. But if you don't boil all the excess hcl out, your brew will taste like batteries.
Click to expand...

Batteries? Hmm... I'm good, I don't think you need much lemon juice, most people use waaaay to much, just 3 spoonfuls or so should be plenty!
 
Right on Mr. Shipping!!😉

I'll take you're advice on brewing 2 doses, I already knew that in the Amazonian ceremonies they tend to drink the brew in small quantities plenty of times, rather than just the once like with pharmahuasca, but I was going to just try to get a dose down and keep it down as long as I could - didn't think to have a backup ready incase I couldn't keep it down or didn't get where I wanted. It'll keep in the fridge anyway so no harm in making more than may be needed.
Click to expand...

Having 2 doses ready is a good idea for so many reasons!!

Ya know, another way of making a brew a bit more strong, is to make larger batches at one time & freeze then for storage.
I started out always making 2-to-4 dose brews, but recently I've made some for myself and a couple of friends (a married couple) who wanted to take some together, so I've made a couple now that where 6-to-10 dose brews.
Same ratio of the same ingredients per dose, gave a much, much stronger effect!! Much Stronger!!

I assume it's because of just plain having more plant material there being brewed.
I don't know for sure why, but I've made more than a few large brews now & some smaller ones in between, & when making a larger batch the Ayahuasca is so very powerful!!

Cheers & enjoy!!

WS
 
I've made some for myself and a couple of friends (a married couple) who wanted to take some together, so I've made a couple now that where 6-to-10 dose brews.
Same ratio of the same ingredients per dose, gave a much, much stronger effect!! Much Stronger!!

I can 2nd that, it is certainly true. This is why I always try to find a group of 3-5 people so that I always brew 10+ doses each time.

Takes about 36 hours from start to finish.
 
2 years of collecting Chacruna leaf doesn't go far. I've got about 71g so looks like I'll just put it all in and have to make do with the one does. Should've bought some when I got the rest of the supplies but I thought, nah I've got loads but lot of volume isn't much weight so I'll get some more for the future.
 
Now I see it all in the pot it doesn't look like I'd've been able to make much more than this anyway - need a bigger pot for the future too. All that plant bark & leaf takes up a lot of volume.
 
Attention All Shipping said:
2 years of collecting Chacruna leaf doesn't go far. I've got about 71g so looks like I'll just put it all in and have to make do with the one does. Should've bought some when I got the rest of the supplies but I thought, nah I've got loads but lot of volume isn't much weight so I'll get some more for the future.
Click to expand...

I don't know this for fact, but if some of the leaves are fresh they will probably be a little more potent...hopefully eh?
If you have some DMT-HCL (or freebase DMT & some gel-caps...), you could add enough of that after the final reduction to equal 2 doses.
It's a bit of a cheat, but at least you'd have that backup dose ready...just in case.


That is so cool that you are finally getting to make a brew using your own-grown leaves!!
How many tree's (or is it bushes??) do you have growing?
How big?
I for one would love to see a picture!! (unless it is naked from harvest right now, I guess😉 )
Very, very cool!!

Attention All Shipping said:
Now I see it all in the pot it doesn't look like I'd've been able to make much more than this anyway - need a bigger pot for the future too. All that plant bark & leaf takes up a lot of volume.
Click to expand...

You did grind up the leaf into powder (by hand is good enough), pounded out the vine into pieces & then twisted & broke it into small fibers, right?
This is definitely needed to get the inside fibers of the bark fully exposed to the liquid (especially if your not adding any acid).
It also makes it much harder to squeeze the last of the liquid out of the plant matter after the final brewing, if the pieces of vine are too big!!

BTW, most curendero's layer the plants into the pot, for the bottom up: vine/leaf/vine/leaf/vine, with the vine making up the bottom & top layer.
If there are other admixtures, they are usually either mixed in with the leaf layer.
Or if there is a large amount of a third plant, a third layer is added, after the leaf layer.
A lot of them also use some kind of heavy cross-bar or something to hold the plant matter down under the surface of the liquid. otherwise as it simmers, it tends to rise to the top, exposing the plants. I've yet to find something I want floating in my brew for 6 hours... I usually just stand there, tending to the pot the whole time...stirring & pushing the plants back down under the surface.
As it brews the layers tend to get somewhat mixed together, but it's a part of the usual ritual, introducing each of the plants into the pot & asking for their help in making this Ayahuasca powerful & healing.

I love the smell of Ayahuasca brewing!! It has a beautiful, floral scent!!
Unfortunately after reducing, is does not smell so nice anymore...:?


Have a good, safe & beneficial time my man!!

WS
 
I don't know this for fact, but if some of the leaves are fresh they will probably be a little more potent...hopefully eh?
Click to expand...

Yes the most certainly will, MUCH more potent sometimes.

Here's my Psychotria plant (tho this is an old picture)-

cactus003.jpg
 
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