passionflower and bundleflower

[BundleflowerPower]

I think Bundleflower is going to be the future for temperate zone psychonautica. In my limited experience with it, seems very potent and extremely hardy. I've hit these guys with a weedeater only to come back in a couple weeks and see them coming back with a vengeance. They survive subzero winters, seed heavily, grow fast... I have no idea why they don't get more attention, maybe it's better this way :thumb_up:

I think there’s more of them than just bundleflower. Maybe some temperate trees create dmt within them selves, like pine for example, and hickory , or oak. And there’s probably more than those whether or not those are like that. And that’s just trees.

I seem to recall having seen a reference to Acer saccharinum (or something very similar) having been found to contain DMT although I've been unable to locate it at present. Parallel universe/Shulgin apocrypha??

You may be right, found this one with google...

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Indole-Alkaloids-of-Acer-saccharinum-(the-Silver-Pachter-Zacharias/e1894e8538fe5d8b501795da129237f063456d23

Indole Alkaloids of Acer saccharinum (the Silver Maple), Dictyoloma incanescens, Piptadenia colubrina, and Mimosa hostilis

Irwin J. Pachter, David E. Zacharias, Oscar Ribeiro •
Published 1959 •
DOI: 10.1021/jo01091a032

A maple grows in my back yard. When I make fires and burn it fresh, it seems to have something noxious in it, for what it’s worth. White oak (I think, yet I’m not totally certain it’s a white oak), smells like dmt in a fire and isn’t noxious.

Pine interests me a lot right now btw. Whatever kind of pine grows in southern Mississippi and the Northshore of Lake Pontchatrain in Louisiana, I think it’s maybe Loblolly Pine. It’s the tree the universe seems to be guiding me towards most right now. And Water Tupelo, it’s energy feels and looks like Chacruna to me. I think it has light in it like that.

I’m sure trees all over the world have much wisdom, and maybe they’re all medicinal. Reminds me of the tree medicine shamans in the Amazon.

 

[twitchy]

[...]
You may be right, found this one with google...

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Indole-Alkaloids-of-Acer-saccharinum-(the-Silver-Pachter-Zacharias/e1894e8538fe5d8b501795da129237f063456d23

Indole Alkaloids of Acer saccharinum (the Silver Maple), Dictyoloma incanescens, Piptadenia colubrina, and Mimosa hostilis

Irwin J. Pachter, David E. Zacharias, Oscar Ribeiro •
Published 1959 •
DOI: 10.1021/jo01091a032

But, alas:

When we learned, through qualitative
tests, that alkaloids occur in the leaves of the silver
maple tree, Acer saccharinum L. it was of consider-
able interest to us to learn their nature.
Extraction of 3.75 kg. of dried, ground maple
leaves with ethanol and concentration of the
alkaloid gave a mass of large crystals in 0.05%
yield. The ultraviolet spectrum of the material
was almost identical with those of 3-substituted
indoles such as gramine and tryptamine. Upon
recrystallization from benzene, the alkaloid melted
at 131-132° and was found to be identical with a
synthetic specimen of the alkaloid gramine (I).

I guess that if gramine is present in saccharinum, then it's possible that other species in the genus could produce other tryptamines.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

[...]
You may be right, found this one with google...

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Indole-Alkaloids-of-Acer-saccharinum-(the-Silver-Pachter-Zacharias/e1894e8538fe5d8b501795da129237f063456d23

Indole Alkaloids of Acer saccharinum (the Silver Maple), Dictyoloma incanescens, Piptadenia colubrina, and Mimosa hostilis

Irwin J. Pachter, David E. Zacharias, Oscar Ribeiro •
Published 1959 •
DOI: 10.1021/jo01091a032

But, alas:

When we learned, through qualitative
tests, that alkaloids occur in the leaves of the silver
maple tree, Acer saccharinum L. it was of consider-
able interest to us to learn their nature.
Extraction of 3.75 kg. of dried, ground maple
leaves with ethanol and concentration of the
alkaloid gave a mass of large crystals in 0.05%
yield. The ultraviolet spectrum of the material
was almost identical with those of 3-substituted
indoles such as gramine and tryptamine. Upon
recrystallization from benzene, the alkaloid melted
at 131-132° and was found to be identical with a
synthetic specimen of the alkaloid gramine (I).

I guess that if gramine is present in saccharinum, then it's possible that other species in the genus could produce other tryptamines.

I see no reason why they wouldn’t, and even less why they couldn’t lol. Actually I’ve been thinking lately, and even having some spiritual experiences about it, that maybe there’s undiscovered powerful psychedelic medicines/ compounds (just to acknowledge the possible medicinal and recreational use of them) in plants in general. And there may be undiscovered phynethylamines as well as tryptamines out there. I would almost bet my soul on it.

 

[twitchy]

I don't know if it's accurate, but I ran across something the other day that said the red coloration of maples is caused by the gramine content in the leaves. I wonder if we can use the same concept to tentatively identify deciduous suspects, would other tryptamines cause colorations or would they all be red?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I’m sure trees all over the world have much wisdom, and maybe they’re all medicinal. Reminds me of the tree medicine shamans in the Amazon.

Well, that's exactly it. The power of plants need not be confined to a tiny corner of all molecular possibilities. We have evolved alongside these living entities, and trees in particular - outliving the typical modern human many times over - will have important lessons for us. It is curious for me at least how (nonetheless) DMT helps in the remembering of plant 'language'.

 

[twitchy]

I'd be willing to bet that mycorrhizal fungi may also yet yield some interesting compounds, that is where the majority of the 'biochemical engineering' takes place. If I could go back and start over, I think I would have gotten into mycology, as I firmly believe that alot of the unsolved mysteries of life here are going to be answered there. It's fungi that rule the earth, IMO. It's the top and the bottom of the food chain, responsible for supporting the vast majority of flora, it's one of just a handful of organisms that can change DNA, and the most suited for transpermia theory... and the least understood. It's also apparently responsible for vast and literal communication networks in forests that we've only just discovered, and I would imagine this arrives as no surprise to those who have taken psilocybes in larger doses. :thumb_up:

 

[BundleflowerPower]

I'd be willing to bet that mycorrhizal fungi may also yet yield some interesting compounds, that is where the majority of the 'biochemical engineering' takes place. If I could go back and start over, I think I would have gotten into mycology, as I firmly believe that alot of the unsolved mysteries of life here are going to be answered there. It's fungi that rule the earth, IMO. It's the top and the bottom of the food chain, responsible for supporting the vast majority of flora, it's one of just a handful of organisms that can change DNA, and the most suited for transpermia theory... and the least understood. It's also apparently responsible for vast and literal communication networks in forests that we've only just discovered, and I would imagine this arrives as no surprise to those who have taken psilocybes in larger doses. :thumb_up:

I love what you shared. And lichens as well I fell.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

I’m sure trees all over the world have much wisdom, and maybe they’re all medicinal. Reminds me of the tree medicine shamans in the Amazon.

Well, that's exactly it. The power of plants need not be confined to a tiny corner of all molecular possibilities. We have evolved alongside these living entities, and trees in particular - outliving the typical modern human many times over - will have important lessons for us. It is curious for me at least how (nonetheless) DMT helps in the remembering of plant 'language'.

I feel you’re correct. Why would plants be limited to human categories. Thank you. You have my mind going now.

 

[DMTeenager]

What about the question of gramine? Until we understand if/how much toxicity is a concern, I would avoid this plant in a simple brew.

I'm not making a strong statement that it is bad, just that I think there is a risk we don't understand yet.

If anyone has more info on gramine and humans it would be great to hear.

From what I’ve read on Gramine in mammal it poses the risk of oral cancer and Type 2 diabetes

NCATS Inxight Drugs — GRAMINE

Chemical

drugs.ncats.io

 

[DMTeenager]

For bundleflower, it was 3 or 4 whole roots of first year plants harvested during or just after the flowers bloomed and before seed pods matured or there about. I brewed the whole roots, cut up in pieces. For passionflower I harvested good bit of leaves yet didn’t weigh them, or dry them out. I brewed them fresh. Maybe 20 leaves and the stems they were growing on if I had to guess.

Have you experimented at all with passion flower extract? that is what I currently have available as all the passion flower in my area has died recently. Most likely going to try it sometime this weekend so any tips would be appreciated

 

[Wise_fool]

I think you are on to something . I've been wanting to add local trees to my brews for some years now to add a local flare but have not and it would seem that passionflower and bundle flower would be the n. American equal to such a spiritual brew in terms of plant locality and naturalization

You should try 10 grams of the root bark of gleditsia triacanthos (honey locust) with 25 grams of passionflower

 

[Transform]

From what I’ve read on Gramine in mammal it poses the risk of oral cancer and Type 2 diabetes

NCATS Inxight Drugs — GRAMINE

Chemical

drugs.ncats.io

Looks to me more like completely the opposite, the way I read it:

Human MCF-7 and MDA-MB-231 cells were maintained in DMEM containing 10% fetal bovine serum and supplied with 1% penicillin/streptomycin. Cells were incubated at37 deg-C in a 5% CO2 atmosphere. Cells were grown to 80% confluence and aliquoted into 100 mm dishes in serum-free media. Cells were allowed to attach overnight and 5 micro-L culture media containing gramine was added. Cells were incubated with 20 µM to 1.2 nM gramine for 72 hours after which proliferation was evaluated using CellTilter-Blue reagent. Gramine inhibited the growth of MDA-MB-231 and MCF-7 cells with IC50 values of 15.3 and 10.6 micro-M respectively

Gramine has been found to act as an agonist of the adiponectin receptor 1 (AdipoR1) which plays an important role in the suppression of metabolic disorders that can result in type 2 diabetes, obesity, and atherosclerosis.