Verruckter
Rising Star
Im almost 100% sure this is a san pedro... but just wanted to verify that it is!
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Pedro?
- Thread starter Verruckter
- Start date
Thats Mr. Pedro. Looks like the common cultivar.
But theres always the next question.....
How active is it????
Better boil some down and find out.
But only if its your cactus to enjoy. Don't go stealing someone else's. I heard stolen cacti bring horrible dark visions of evil snakes.
:twisted:
But theres always the next question.....
How active is it????
Better boil some down and find out.
But only if its your cactus to enjoy. Don't go stealing someone else's. I heard stolen cacti bring horrible dark visions of evil snakes.
:twisted:
ipumaestro
catdestined
/agrees with ouro
bioassay~!
bioassay~!
Verruckter
Rising Star
this is why trying to identify cactus sucks ass! some people say yes, some people say no.... lol The cactus is at my friends house, is there a way to find out for sure if it is indeed a pedro, and indeed active, besides wasting a bunch of time?
Ambivalent
Rising Star
Stating that is is not a PC (predominant cultivar) is a good thing, the PC is a weak (or even non-mescaline containing cactus).Verruckter said:
So ouro actually agrees with Bezerker.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Looks like the real T pachanoi. Could be very strong.
Not at all the PC or pachanot clone.
Not at all the PC or pachanot clone.
Any clone couod be strong. Even some so called pc are really unknown trich hybrids. Doesnt mean at all its weak. Some have yellow white spine v notches low mescaline high mescaline. All these are variations that could exist big spines small spines. Rule of thumb is 14 inches by 2-3 " if its a strong clone you will have lots of visuals. If its a weak clone you coukd have threshold low to mild visuals. Ive had visuals with 14 inches of "pc pachanoi"
ipumaestro
catdestined
tizoc4u said:
ive taken the same achuma powder as one of my guests and i had a mild experience, they were catatonic for several hours.
potency should also be considered in regards to its consumer.
i used to be intimidated and overwhelmed by more than a half foot of achuma. now i comfortably/trustingly take 2-3 feet, it is not but pure communion with the botanical/cosmic perspective/Self. ive had visuals on lower amounts that during later dates provided me with less than startling results
Not surprising, it is a weak strain.tizoc4u said:
Real pachanoi takes about as much as the volume of a medium size apple.
PC being weak takes a lot more, 14 inches sounds reasonable for a weak clone.
How is this any different from the pic of this supposed pachanot from california by trout?
There are numerous differences but they are subtle.
The spine count, length and arrangements are different, the total diameter and profile are different, the color and texture of the skin are also different.
The areole size, shape and color also show differences and the spacing between them is also different.
The plant in the original post for the thread appears to be a Huancabamba 'short spine' peruvianus, as sold as seed from Mesa Garden, this variety of so called peruvianus is actually pachanoi. I've grown and sampled them in the past and they have been quite nice, with a full diameter plants (3-4 inches wide) I have had strong effects including open eye visuals from a section of stem 4 inches long from plants that looked very much like the one in the top photo.
The spine count, length and arrangements are different, the total diameter and profile are different, the color and texture of the skin are also different.
The areole size, shape and color also show differences and the spacing between them is also different.
The plant in the original post for the thread appears to be a Huancabamba 'short spine' peruvianus, as sold as seed from Mesa Garden, this variety of so called peruvianus is actually pachanoi. I've grown and sampled them in the past and they have been quite nice, with a full diameter plants (3-4 inches wide) I have had strong effects including open eye visuals from a section of stem 4 inches long from plants that looked very much like the one in the top photo.
Actually thouse two cactus, in my opinion, look almost identical to each other then some subtle difference that could be environmental factors. For example when it gets more sun the spines could get longer or even change colors. If you want a. Positive id I woul ask the person who wrote that article.
tizoc4u said:
I don't have enough experience, I began growing the cacti in 98 or so and thus am by no means an expert, however I will challenge anyone to provide a picture of PC that has spines, profile and areoles like the first image in the photo. Look at the downward pointing spines and try to find PC type clones that have those with the same appearance.
To me there is a night and day difference and I have seen the PC clone in many climates and environments first hand and have yet to see anything like the first photo associated with it.
I have had hybrids of PC with other plants that to experts looked like PC when young, typical they involved bridgesii, but they also had distinctions from PC when grown over time.
The only decent clone/selections that I have seen that look like the PC are PC X scop and the reverse and bridgesii X scop and the reverse and a single clone of riomizquensis (there are two forms in circulation) Even more interesting is that i have yet to see any PC X any short spined San pedro ally that didn't have some longer spines. I am firmly resolute in my opinion that PC is a hybrid itself that has genetics from the (nearly totally inactive) cuzcoensis form, though I am the only person I know insisting on this.
One should also consider that some dishonest salesmen drop ship alleged PC from independent growers and suppliers. I know growers who have personally supplied plants of the PC type that were sold this way by a notorious seller (sacredcactus.con) In such cases it is quite possible that some hybrids appearing somewhat like the PC clone are distributed, but still most clones sold this way are the PC clones not worth growing by anyone serious about sacred cacti.
In my experierience I have seen the same clone grow differently in different conditions, and have read of people drinking cactus tea from the same actual batch or pot and getting very different results, but I have not seen the PC look like the plant in the first post of this thread. I'd even bet cash money that Mike S. Smith, who has a lot of experience in this area, would agree.
As for K-trout and his article about the PC and the cactus in the above first post, I would love to know what he thinks of this.
Im with ms smith in this regarding the pc I think that the pc is really a relative of the brige. I dont know if the one on top is pc. I just says it looks like the one on grizzly picture. Plus most pc are not really the same clone most people just throw the pc card to almost any trich that resembles it and cannot fully id it. It will take someone that has knowledge about cacti to say what they really are. Thats why I agree with micheal that most pc are brig relatives mixed with scop or some other unkown trich. As for the one on top I would say it looks mire like a short spined peruvianis. I wouldnt say pachanoi but who knows maybe it is. I dont know much about sacred cacti I have just started growing it. But have been growing reg cactus since I was 5 and eating em since before that. The pachanoi pictures thst I seen from the wild have more of a horizontal notch pronounced v notch im sure trucha could id it. . . Im sure it probably is a hucabamba as upon looking at some pictures that cacti does resemble it. Cheers
Most PC i have seen are the same clone, I have yet to see anything like it that wasn't it.tizoc4u said:
I've recieved it in trade from a dozen different people over a decade and have seen it growing in many different climates and have never seen it be potent or even seen it set seed whjen crossed with anything that looks like PC, if they were different clones they would be able to cross and set seed. I have seen backyards with over 100 cacti in them from various sources, all PC like and when they flower zero seeds grow.
If there is any evidence that PC like plants are not PC, what is it?
Yes I totally disagree with him on that. The form, alkaloid content and the genetics indicated by its hybrid crosses all tell me that the PC is likely a cuzcoensis hybrid with a real pachanoi.
Way too thin, peruvianus forms are thick and fat, even the short spined ones, the plants that get called 'short spined peruvianus' like those from Mesa Garden seed are just pachanoi. I am sure Smith will agree on that.
I wish I had more experience with them.
ID is tricky and I have seen hybrids that did look like other forms... but then when they flower with anything else at the same time seed is set.
Test crosses are not easy to do but are very informative.
I think flower color and the hair color around the flowers along with seed shape and size may actually be needed to form a complete picture when it comes to id. No matter what, that is one sweet looking torch. I would be honored to come across such a lovely specimen. I am sure it won't let you down.
Cut a small piece out and chew on it.
The pc variety should be more cactusy and green tasting.
The high alk varieties have that very distinctive super bitter almost sandy mouth feeling.
That should be a good indicator if it is worth pursuing.
The pc variety should be more cactusy and green tasting.
The high alk varieties have that very distinctive super bitter almost sandy mouth feeling.
That should be a good indicator if it is worth pursuing.
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