Phalaris Arundinacea

[Pontos]

Well,

This is where my interest began. You see, not far from my home I found a spot where this particular phalaris grows in abundance. I'd estimate 5+ acres of it growing in monoculture (BTW if anybody else has to deal with this, 100% positive identification of grasses is a bitch). I know there is some concern regarding the use of phalaris as a DMT source due to the presence of gramine in some species but I just can't give up on it as a potential source. I mean, there are literally tons of it available to me (not that I'd ever need more than a pound or two at a time) free of charge and easily picked. Anyway, after looking through the USDA site I was unable co come up with any data for the concentration of gramine. A JSTOR search revealed concentrations of up to 115ug/g in P. aquatica but no data on the toxicity of gramine in humans or concentrations in other varieties. None. The only data I could find concerned sheep, voles, and aphids. At least for now, it makes me think that the human toxicity levels are very low (I couldn't find a single poisoning case related to gramine).

Back to the point, the first time I attempted DMT extraction (three years ago when I was just beginning to seriously study chemistry) was with a batch (maybe 1.5 kilos) of this grass. It failed. Miserably. I was left with an evaporation pan full of inactive tar and a royal mess in my kitchen. Personally, I blame my own impatience during defatting, but it seems other folks have had problems working with phalaris. Anyway, spring will be here in a few months and I was considering a second go at making spice from phalaris, and was wondering if anybody here has any practical tips for working with the stuff. Also, personal experiences with phalaris extract or anahuascas (something else I was considering) would be greatly appreciated.

Pontos

 

[Ayawasqero]

Good luck.

 

[aliendreamtime]

I had great intrest in Phalaris Arundinacea sp as an ayahuasca admixture, as I was looking for something native. The gramine turned me off, although I never found anything confirming the toxicity of gramine. The sheep experiement which I am sure you are aware of was the original case which prompted the theory as to why phalaris is deadly to sheep. Originally they figured it was gramine, I've read other reports claiming it is the dmt itself that is lethal to sheep. I was unable to find outside legitimate information as to the toxicity of gramine.

With that being said I don't condone the use of this stuff, and was turned off when I saw the long list of dmt's present in the grass other than n,n and 5 meo. These other chemicals, as well as the gramie/hordenine situation, I've decided to leave it alone. Maybe when I'm nearing my life's end I will experiment, not having to worry about long-term effects.

 

[Global]

My recommendation would be to invest in a pound or half a pound of mimosa hostilis root bark. I know it's not free, and you can't pick it out of your back yard (so-to-speak), but it's definitely worth the investment, and being that much more people are familiar with it, any issues you encounter with the MHRB can be easily spotted and remedied.

 

[seven7seven]

Phalaris grass is indeed really hard to work with. I too tried to use this for my first extraction and failed miserably. I account it to inexperience, and not enough knowledge at the time.

After my failed attempt I did a little research on using phalaris. I found some interesting things. It was suggested that a large fully grown plant, and a small plant contain the same amount of alkaloids. Not the same ratio, but (in theory) the same amount of DMT should be able to be extracted from a small plant and a large plant. So when it comes to phalaris extraction smaller plants are better than large.

It was also suggested that plants that were under more stress tend to have a higher alkaloid content.

I have also found phalaris leaves (the leaves supposedly contain higher alkaloid concentration) really hard to pulverize.

Apparently the best way to go about harvesting phalaris for extraction is to cut down a large section of the larger plants you would find in the wild. You wait for the grass to sprout back up several inches (it is hard to kill phalaris) and get the leaves from these sprouts. Now you have a small, stressed plant that should also be easier to pulverize as well. I haven't tried this personally yet, but probably will as I am very interested in phalaris grass as it is very abundant in my area.

 

[Global]

I find it intriguing that (if it's true) that when the plants undergo more stress, they produce more DMT analogously how Strassman proposed that very stressful situations may play a role in increased human endogenous DMT production

 

[benzyme]

that may likely be for two completely different reasons.

human mRNA transcripts for proteins involved with endogenous DMT production exist in tissues which are involved with stress response (adrenals, lung, heart, and muscle tissues).

humans psychologically perceive stress, plants do not.

 

[burnt]

I find it intriguing that (if it's true) that when the plants undergo more stress, they produce more DMT analogously how Strassman proposed that very stressful situations may play a role in increased human endogenous DMT production

When plants are stressed they often can stimulate secondary metabolite production. Plants can even signal other plants that they are under attack and that those plants should start producing more of certain compounds. DMT is probably not unique in this regard.

 

[Xt]

As for extraction, i think Acid to Base with multiple defats. Maybe then use limonene and salt out to further minimize impurity's before freebasing.

Let us know if you find a good bunch of the grass and try extracting it. It is very invasive and so must be Very common.
I assume this is why the powers that be are not so fast on cutting off supply of a certain plant source.
This grass is literally all over the planet. How do you enforce a law against nature?

 

[Phantastica]

How do you enforce a law against nature?

by first becoming mentally retarded

 

[Global]

How do you enforce a law against nature?

by first becoming mentally retarded

Yes, yes. This plan has been most effective in the US with many other laws thus far.

 

[Xt]

/bangs table and raises tankard of mead

 

[benzyme]

Smokable Dimethyltryptamine from Organic Sources

A natural source of DMT, perhaps the most powerful hallucinogen on the planet, which can be grown in anyone's yard and extracted in their kitchen. DMT is one of the keys to the imaginal realm, but it isn't for everyone... [I]t could be a catalyst for a quantum leap in human awareness--something...

deoxy.org

old, but still relevant.

 

[Pontos]

That's funny, I think the deoxy.org tek was inspired me originally, I remember reading it but I don't think I used its guide. Probably should have. Thanks for the link, its a good write up.

Pontos

 

[benzyme]

you're welcome. deoxy was what turned me on to dmt, before erowid existed.

 

[Mitchi]

Someday, we might all be have to go pick Phalaris, to make DMT

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

From what I have always read, arundinacea is not worth the time. If you want to experiment with phalaris it is all about the brachystachys and high tryptamine strains of aquatica.

 

[Xt]

From what I have always read, arundinacea is not worth the time. If you want to experiment with phalaris it is all about the brachystachys and high tryptamine strains of aquatica.

Where did you read this?
It would be nice to see experiments conducted. I think what with so many people in different regions and the many grass strains. And all the other variables in between.

 

[benzyme]

agreed.

how would you know if you haven't tried? alkaloid content is highly variable;
plain-jane arundinacea yields about 40 mg DMT per pound of grass. get a wheatgrass juicer, and get to churnin'.

I'm actually looking forward to MHRB getting banned, so I can be amused by people scrambling to find their next spice fix

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

From what I have always read, arundinacea is not worth the time. If you want to experiment with phalaris it is all about the brachystachys and high tryptamine strains of aquatica.

Where did you read this?
It would be nice to see experiments conducted. I think what with so many people in different regions and the many grass strains. And all the other variables in between.

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout

Boom