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Phalaris Arundinacea?

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H

Heptaware

Rising Star
There is a lot of this growing in my yard. Is it P. Arundinacea? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.




Ligule


Rhizomes


The younger grass is much more green and bunched together


The more mature grass developes a reddish hue and starts to fan out




Seeds that fell out onto the table
 
Be careful with identifying grasses. Lots of grasses look a lot alike.
They're trash anyway. You need to extract like a trashbag full of grass to get any useful quantity of yield.
Your best bets would be to use the better known barks.

To answer your question, it's really hard to say because p arundinacea doesn't look a whole lot different from other phalaris grasses. I would say cross check it with a google image search, identify it, then rejoice if you have the right thing, then throw it away and get bark. lol
 
I don't know about the toxicity of gramine but it's hardly soluble in limonene, especially cold limonene. In the phalaris analysis thread the alkaloids were analyzed based off of different extracts and it was found that gramine is hardly soluble in cold limonene. I imagine If one were to 'filter' their spice through cold limonene and salt it out then it should yeild a nearly gramine-free product. Especially if it was done more than once. I could be wrong though
 
Heptaware said:
I don't know about the toxicity of gramine but it's hardly soluble in limonene, especially cold limonene. In the phalaris analysis thread the alkaloids were analyzed based off of different extracts and it was found that gramine is hardly soluble in cold limonene. I imagine If one were to 'filter' their spice through cold limonene and salt it out then it should yeild a nearly gramine-free product. Especially if it was done more than once. I could be wrong though
Click to expand...

Yes, in an extract gramine should not be an issue.

Though if one we're to attempt to brew an ayahuasca analogue from an MAOI plant and grass species containing gramine there may be an issue.

Which is why I was curious if gramine toxicity was ever confirmed.

Sorry, I'm now realizing that this may not have been the most appropriate thread for that particular question, and I apologize, ill try to be mindful of staying closer to the topic at hand in the future.

-eg
 
Actually hold on...

I'm wrong in that last post.

I assumed the gramine levels were too low to be significant in an extract, but it turns out I'm probably wrong there, my bad.

I've never extracted from phalaris...

And I have not studied it as much as I should have.

-eg
 
gramine
Solubility:
Sol in alcohol, ether, chloroform; slightly sol in cold acetone. Practically insol in petr ether, water. (Merck Index)


Hordenine
Solubility:
Very sol in alcohol, chloroform, ether. 7 grams dissolve in 1000 ml water. Sparingly sol in benzene, toluene, xylene. Practically insol in petr ether. (Merck Index)


Looks like hordenine and gramine are insoluble petroleum ether, where as DMT should be soluble in petroleum ether, which is a non-polar solvent...

That would be one way to go about it I suppose...

I found some analysis work here: The Phalaris Analysis Thread - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Good stuff.

As far as desperation of these similar tryptamine compounds, there are a few ways you could go about it, the best way of coarse would be to.extract from a plant source that contains only DMT maybe a little NMT content is OK, seriously though, there are a number of potential ways to separate these things, though as for which ones work best, you would have to.ask.someone with experiance with phalaris grass extraction and extract purification on grass extracted materials.
 

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Please browse through the extensive "Phalaris and other grass types ID" and "Phalaris: The Way of the Future" threads. This grass is mentioned constantly.

The grass in your photos is orchard grass, DACTYLIS GLOMERATA.
It contains gramine and no tryptamines.

The ligule is prominent on many grasses, so only is an indicator that you're getting close, but don't spark up that cigar yet.

When you do find Phalaris Arundinacea, make sure to pull with room temperature naphtha or d-limonene, that will reduce your chances of getting a gramine-dominant extract.
 
Earlier today I realized that what I had in my yard was not phalaris. I realized this because I found a really tall grass ( 8-10 ft ) that resembled phalaris much more than what I previously had. What I originally had in my yard wasn't nearly that tall ( 3 - 5 ft ). I didn't take any pictures, but I did get excited and took about 550 grams worth of its leaves. I'll have to check out those threads to be 100% positive but this looked literally exactly like some images I've seen of phalaris.
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
Looks like hordenine and gramine are insoluble petroleum ether, where as DMT should be soluble in petroleum ether, which is a non-polar solvent...
Click to expand...
Thanks this is really helpful. When I gets my hands on some pet ether I'll have to try this
 
Yes, a few threads on here you might want to peruse. Photos definitely not of Phalaris Arundinacea!

Last year I found several acres of the stuff growing at the side of soggy, unused fields. I picked around 2 kg and did an extraction 3 weeks later. The result was a small amount of brownish oil. (I pride myself on being able to get crystals out of most things!) When I smoked it, it didn't seem anything like DMT or 5-MeO-DMT but still some sort of weird tryptamine type experience I'd say. Maybe the posts on here will have an update on the best way to extract this and what the actual DMT content is - I can only give my experience.
 
cy6nu5 said:
They're trash anyway. You need to extract like a trashbag full of grass to get any useful quantity. Your best bets would be to use the better known barks.

To answer your question, it's really hard to say because p arundinacea doesn't look a whole lot different from other phalaris grasses. I would say cross check it with a google image search, identify it, then rejoice if you have the right thing, then throw it away and get bark. lol
Click to expand...

Please! They are not trash! Some grasses (p. brachystachys) may be true to type and have = amount or moar spice then bark. And you can grow them in 7 large pots on your balcony within 3 months. Remember that not everyboday has access to bark, and bark itself may not even be sustainable for indefinite periods of time. This forum is not exclusively for Germaricans but for everyboday, incl. ppl from the so called 2nd & 3rd world countries. It is also good and wholesome if one can (learn to) grow (or identify & gather) what one needs (in a sustainable way). We should encourage that!
 
To the OP, I was once very fascinated with grass species, however 5-ho-DMT and gramine content definantly curbed some of my interest. While these grasses are very common and can be found in a wide variety of places, I've found purchasing other plant sources to be more productive. Though I'm sure you are aware of common DMT sources.

Why grasses?

Though, You can actually order these grasses online, this will take care of the guess work in identification...unless you like hunting down wild plants and finding their ID, which some people do, I used to love to do This when I was younger.

acacia confusa rootbark is cheap and easily available, mimosa hostillis rootbark is still fairly common and can still be purchased online.

Desmanthus leptolobus and Desmanthus illinoensis seeds are available online, as are rooted plants, these are more than easy to grow out doors, and will grow in most places in the United states, the roots are a great source of N,N-DMT.

Delosperma cooperi is an ornamental plant which can be purchased online and through plant nursery facilities, this common ornamental contains DMT and 5-MEO-DMT.

Lespedeza bicolor is a common ornamental plant which contains DMT and 5-meo-DMT, it is available online and through plant nursery facilities.

DMT really is everywhere

If you have any luck with the grasses keep us posted, I spent a few months in study of these grass species when I was younger, but fully abandoned the venture for other plant types. I regret not learning as much as I should have in this area, and I regret writing these species off as "a waste of time", so any information would be appreciated, and may help me "fill in the blanks" in my research with grasses which is Full of holes.

-eg
 
I was told by a friend experimenting with these grasses that there were some fairly simple methods for consuming them, however I have never experimented with any of these methods, and again, gramine, 5-ho-DMT and 5-meo-DMT should always be kept in mind when consuming any preperations of these grasses, specially those involving an MAOI.

I was told that you could take Arundo donax, Phalaris brachystachys or Phalaris aquatica seeds, place them in a Tupperware on wet paper towels, then cover the Tupperware with plastic wrap and place it in a dark warm place until the seeds sprout, once the seeds have sprouted you can dry them out, powder them, and smoke the powdered sprouts to obtain some type of psychedelia.

I was also told that you could take either Arundo donax, Phalaris brachystachys or Phalaris aquatica, and run it through a wheatgrass juicer. you then can evaporate the juice to obtain a smokable residue...or one can take the juice product and combine it with an MAOI to for a grass ayahuasca analogue.

Then you have basic extraction techniques, however 5-hydroxy-DMT, gramine, and 5-meo-DMT would be present in your extracts, and extra steps would be required to remove them.

-eg
 
I have looked into the Desmanthus species. They are actually very aesthetic so I would love to start growing some plants. I don't know if any local nurseries would have desmanthus though so I might just have to order some seeds. They take years to grow though unfortunately but I guess it's something to look forward to.

Never heard of Lespedeza bicolor I'll have to into that
 
Some Lespedeza bicolor information:

Lespedeza bicolor GENERAL DISTRIBUTION:
As of 1998, bicolor lespedeza occurred as an escaped nonnative from Virginia south to northern Florida and west to Louisiana and Kentucky [42]. Although plants also occur as far north as New York, Ontario, Michigan, and Iowa and as far west as Nebraska and Texas [54,61,87], abundance of bicolor lespedeza in natural areas is greatest in the southeastern United States [32,42]. Bicolor lespedeza is native to the temperate areas of China, Korea, and Japan [25,42]. Plants Database provides a map of bicolor lespedeza's distribution in North America.

Bicolor lespedeza was originally introduced to the United States as an ornamental in 1856 [22,25]. Beginning in the 1930s, bicolor lespedeza was promoted and widely planted for erosion control and wildlife conservation [60]. Plants were also used in mine reclamation [35,82]. From the late 1930s through the 1950s, wildlife managers and the USDA Soil Conservation Service in the Southeast began producing and distributing millions of bicolor lespedeza seeds and seedlings annually [60]. In the mid- to late 1930s, 3 to 4 million bicolor lespedeza were planted for gully stabilization [21]. In 1939, a little over 1.2 million bicolor lespedeza were grown on Civilian Conservation Corps camps; by 1950, there were over 50 million seedlings [70]. More than 400 acres (160 ha) were used to produce bicolor lespedeza seed in the early 1940s [21]. Bicolor lespedeza's use in mine site reclamation has occurred as recently as the 1980s in Fairfield, Texas [35]. Eighteen years after planting bicolor lespedeza on a surface coal mine site in Laurel County, Kentucky, researchers considered it "naturalized" and noted spread beyond the planting area [82].

In the 1940s and 50s, the USDA recommended bicolor lespedeza to private land owners to improve northern bobwhite habitat [22]. In the 1940s in Kansas, a nursery was established in Kingman County State Park to produce plants and seed for wildlife habitat improvement [49]. From 1948 to 1953 in Virginia, nearly 7 million bicolor lespedeza plants and 17,000 pounds of seed were planted as an attempt to increase northern bobwhite populations in and around farms [30]. In the 1950s, state agencies in Arkansas distributed 775,000 bicolor lespedeza plants and 2,200 pounds of seed for wildlife improvement [40]. In the 1960s, bicolor lespedeza was planted along a 1.3-mile (2.1 km) stretch of Maryland's eastern shore to increase wildlife and particularly northern bobwhite habitat and food availability [11]. For information on northern bobwhites and their use of bicolor lespedeza,
Click to expand...

This plant generally contains around 0.2% DMT content.

It can be purchased as an ornamental, and grows wild in many places.

This plant also contains 1-methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (lespedamine), which shulgin speculates May be active when smoked:

The compound with a methoxy group substituent at the 1-position is called Lespedamine, 1-MeO-DMT. With an NO bond, this should be classified as a substituted hydroxylamine. I would love to know if anyone anywhere has ever tried smoking it. I suspect it might very well be active, but it is, to my knowledge, untried
-Shulgin;TIHKAL
Click to expand...



-eg
 
jamie said:
Do not try and smoke dry phalaris juice. You will just cough. Do a proper extraction.
Click to expand...


I have never tried it personally, I'm just reporting what I have been told by others...

The latest info from Jim DeKorne's The Entheogen Review is that one can avoid chemical extraction altogether, and use a wheatgrass juicer. DeKorne warns readers to exercise caution when using extracts from Phalaris until more is known about it, but here is a transcript:
"The latest scoop is that you don't even have to use chemical extractions anymore - run several handfuls of grass through a wheatgrass juicer (sold in most health food stores) and you'll wind up with a glass or so of incredibly potent liquid. One teaspoon (with MAO inhibition, of course), is a standard dose with strong grass. Only two teaspoons proved very challenging to one of my correspondents - an OD! The juice can be dried and smoked in a bong - two tokes will usually do it.
Click to expand...

-eg
 
In this transcription terence mckenna speaks about phalaris grass and other DMT containing plants found in the temperate zones. This transcription did have relevance to this thread at several points, so even though it is a little long, I felt it was appropriate for this thread.


The question is ‘Are there herbs in the temperate zone that contain DMT?’ Yes. There are certain grasses – Phalaris arundinacea, Phalaris tuberosa. These can be ordered from plant dealers or gotten, ironically enough, from agricultural experiment stations because these are pasturage grasses. A lot of people are doing wonderful work right now learning how to make DMT preparations out of native plants. The mature Phalaris grass, it’s very diffuse – the DMT. So what people are doing is they’re getting the seeds and they’re spouting them in a sprouter. And then they’re taking the sprouted seeds and air drying them. Well, you can imagine how powdery sprouts become if you air dry them. Well then you can powder up a handful of these sprouts and twist that into a bomber and come very very close to the flash point. The other thing – I mean, since I’m talking to recipe-oriented magicians – the other thing you need to understand if you want to work in this area is that DMT can ordinarily not be taken orally because there is an enzyme system in your intestines called the mono amine oxidase system. And it will destroy the DMT. But the good news is there are certain compounds called mono amine oxidase inhibitors – didn’t you know it. If you take a mono amine oxidase inhibitor, and then you take DMT, the DMT will survive the gut and pass into the blood stream, and pass the blood-brain barrier. So here is a very important piece of practical information I am about to give you. If you want to inhibit your mono amine oxidase in order to make DMT trips longer, or mushroom trips longer and more intense, or to activate DMT if you only have a little bit of it, then what you should get are the seeds of Peganum harmala. You can either order it under that name from seed dealers, or go to an Iranian market and buy what is called Hurmal. This is simply Peganum harmala seeds. They use it as an incense to fumigate rooms. But two grams – don’t take more – two grams of this macerated in a mortar and pestle with spring water taken from a spring at the new moon near a crossroads will inhibit your MAO. It will inhibit your MAO. Consequently, then when you smoke the bomber of Phalaris dust it will grab on. Or you can even smoke mushrooms then, and they will grab on. So knowing how to inhibit MAO is one of the key techniques in this kind of herbal shamanic magic. Other plants that contain DMT, and here’s one you should all be aware of because it’s probably right around here is Desmanthus ilinoensis – Illinois Bundle Weed. It’s a rank weed. I’ve not seen it except in the dry form but people have grown hundreds of pounds of this stuff in a few months. And the root bark has the highest concentration of DMT ever measured in any plant. It’s higher than the ayahuasca admixtures used in the Amazon. Pardon? [Inaudible Question] In the root bark, the root bark which you dry the root and the scrape the bark off and you’ll get this reddish root bark. The red is actually the DMT. Virola trees in the Amazon shed DMT in their sap, and it’s always a blood red sap. And to show you how strong it is, the indians in the Amazon – some of the tribes – they roll their arrow points directly into that sap. And it’s a paralytic poison in the bloodstream of monkeys and small animals. So a great deal of work is being done right now and you should, if you’re of an experimental and herbal and alchemical and magical bent, people are creating what they call ayahuasca analogs. This is where you use local plants to create a brew which is chemically equivalent to an Amazonian hallucinogen. And of course, you have the satisfaction that it’s yours. It’s your magical recipe. No one on earth is doing quite what you’ve got and it’s very – a lot of interesting work is being done and you’ll hear more about this. In fact, Jonathan Ott just wrote a book called ‘Ayahuasca Analogs’ in which the state of the art is spelled out, and it would be worth your while to check that out if you’re an experimentalist. [Inaudible Question] The question is ‘Is there a more – is there a simple reagent test for the presence of DMT?’ The answer is: sort of. You can do a paper chromatographic test and all you need is a little UV light and some chromatography paper and some solvent dishes. I mean, it’s at the level of a 7th grade science project. Yes, I don’t know how much I should say on this subject. I’m probably about to say too much. But at one gathering I go to, one of the people who’s a very regular part of that particular posse, is a wheat breeder. So when he heard about the Phalaris, he was a geneticist and a wheat breeder. And he has been working very quietly on his own to produce super strains of Phalaris, and I think we will soon see super strains because the underground community is incredibly creative in this area. The compound I talked about yesterday – Salvia divinorum – that’s all underground work. Bret Blosser, the anthropologist who discovered it is a complete freak. The guy, the chemist who extracted it who would prefer I don’t put out his name is a complete freak. The people who then did the confirmation studies – my brother and his band of performing pharmacologists – all freaks. So we actually, we do not take ourselves seriously enough. I mean, we have our scientists, we have our philosophers, we have our thinkers, our legal experts, we are a complete community. And it’s no longer, in my mind, even necessary to publish in straight journals and to seek a pat on the head from, you know, the American pharmacology community. They don’t understand what these things are for anyway. [Question: About yesterday. [Inaudible] … could you give that name of it?] Yes, I’ll repeat this and strengthen once again my case to the guy who owns the company that he should pay me, for gods sakes. If you want a catalog of extremely rare and useful psychoactive and magical plants, probably the most complete in the world – the company is called ‘Of The Jungle’ PO Box 1801 Sebastopol, CA, 95472. Write and ask for a catalog. And tell them George Bush sent you. No, I’m teasing. Don’t tell them that they won’t send you the catalog
-terence mckenna https://terencemckenna.wikispaces.com/Rap+Dancing+Into+the+Third+Millenium
Click to expand...

-eg
 
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