Phalaris 'Big Medicine' Alkaloid content?

[artistofdivine]

Is anyone aware of the alkaloid content of big medicine? I'm interested in getting it because it spreads with rhizomes unlike brachystachys yet still has a reputed good alkaloid content of n,n with absolutely no gramine. I looked all over the web and i couldn't find an alkaloid %

 

[kerelsk]

No idea of the alkaloid content, but I have a clone too, working on exponential division. It's really hard to find any specific info about it, so I think it's more so in the domain of first-time experimenters.

Johnny Appleseed reported in an Entheogen Review article that about a pound of dry grass should be a dose, though I'm guessing that could be halved for purposes of bioassaying the potency. I really wish somebody could supply the entire interview with J. Appleseed, it might have some really useful info.
See Vodsel's post: Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Since drying Phalaris tends to reduce the amount of alkaloids, one should be able to use a smaller sample of fresh grass, assuming that your extract can handle the extra water weight.

Big Medicine would seem to be a more ideal source for Phalarihuasca because it lacks gramine (which may be metabolized by MAO-A, which would obviously be inhibited in this situation). It has been shown in the Phalaris Analysis Thread to contain hordenine, but that should be metabolized by MAO-B. Harmala alkaloids shouldn't affect MAO-B in the doses needed for MAO-A inhibition, as far as I can tell.
Plus, hordenine has been used as a supplement in the 500mg-1g range anyway.
Cautious experimentation seems warranted.

I'd also like to find a high 5-MeO producing strain as well, since the dose would be maybe 1/5 of that of DMT-phalaris, and shouldn't even need a MAOI!

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Appleseed did note it still had unpleasant stimulant effects and used a method to overcome this, as opposed to a clone

 

[jamie]

^so even the selected tryptamine arundinacea clones have that stimulant effect eh..this is the only thing holding me back from doing more bioassay work with wild arundinacea..the wild stuff is def tryptamine active and useful IME.. I will do more but I am not keen to repeat that so soon..how did appleseed overcome the stimulant effects?..I dont remember reading about it in his work..

 

[notsure]

I was just wondering if any more progress was made on this?

 

[dreamer042]

Big Medicine most assuredly does contain gramine, this has been verified by GC-MS on two separate sources as well as TLC.

Alkaloid content is in line with other varieties of P. arundinacea in the range of around .01-.05%

Attached you will find the full interview with Johnny Appleseed:

Appleseed, J. (2002). Johnny appleseed speaks... Entheogen Review, XI(1), 1169-1172.

 

[kerelsk]

Thanks for that article, dreamer, I've been wanting to read that for a while.

Yeah, I guess I assumed Big Medicine lacked any gramine because in the Phalaris Analysis Thread, there was no peak labelled for gramine in the picture. I guess I missed that piece of info somewhere.

"Thus, when a research colleague reported to me that the 15 minute quick-simmer seemed to extract the tryptamine alkaloids, but leave behind the toxic elements in Phalaris, I realized that this was the breakthrough we had been looking for with Phalaris."

"This new harvest technique promises to be much better. Basically it involves harvesting the grass every week. The new fresh growing tips apparently produce a much higher concentration of the active alkaloids. I have reports that one double handful of the fresh growing tips extracted in acid water for 15 minutes provides a reliable oral experience when potentiated with Syrian Rue (Peganum harmala)."

This is practical information!

Desmanthus leptolobus looks to be the only other North American dmt plant, but very little experimentation has been done with it and it takes years to mature.
Phalaris is truly unique in its ability to grow so quickly. I know of no other tryptamine carrier that can reproduce itself so quickly, save the mushrooms. Tantalizing stuff for this novice researcher.
But you know what they say about old and bold mycophiles, this applies to unknown plants just as well.

It looks like nearly nobody is doing work with this plant these days, but I'll be keeping my clone alive for the future.

 

[jamie]

I use arundinacea.

So do others..they are out there.

Gramine is not an issue. It's not soluble in most of the solvents we use. Neither is hordenine.

I have taken arundinacea extracts around 20 times without any toxicity. Even without removing the gramine and hordenine the worst thing to happen was unpleasant stimulation.

 

[kerelsk]

You're an inspiration to me jamie, thanks for your work with arundinacea. Your reports give a flavor of this plant's spirit.

I like the idea of a North American anahuasca because it's so low-tech and requires little investment. The problem here is that you're extracting almost all the alkaloids from the plant, so you get the full flavor.

I'll be looking into Autumn Olive this summer, I have a source for the plants. Last year, I was involved in clearing them from some land to plant fruit trees in their place, but looking at the stumps, their inner bark was a deep yellow.
I looked through the Autumn Olive thread a while ago, but nobody looks to have taken it orally.

This is drifting away from the topic title, I know, but I like to ruminate about these things

 

[jamie]

Autumn Olive has been used orally by felnik..which he seems to have enjoyed.

 

[kerelsk]

:surprised
... I should probably be studying more, thanks for the update

 

[endlessness]

Also in case you didn`t see this before:

The Phalaris Analysis Thread - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus