Pharmahuasca First Round, Second to follow

[Vodsel]

Well, first pharmahuasca try last night, and seems that the general rule for me applies as well - I'm going to need high doses.

Light meals during the day, no use of psychoactives other than a passion flower + catuaba tea the night before and some rolling tobacco during the day.

09:00pm - Had a fruit salad with mango, banana and kiwi and a toast with olive oil.
10:00pm - 150mg of Harmine/Harmaline HCl in a shot of orange juice. 50mg of DMT Fumarate in another shot right afterwards.
10:45pm - Pleasant light buzz, feeling the shape of my stomach (familiar feeling) but no nausea. I decide to raise another 50mg Harmalas and 50mg more of Fumarate.
11:15pm - Mild CEV, clear psychedelic threshold feeling. I lay down in bed, focus inwards. The next 40 minutes or so I have a collection of CEV, nice but nothing particularly vivid.
12:00am - Trying a last boost of 50mg DMT, washed down with a gulp of coke. My body phases out slightly, but the feeling agrees more with a come down than a plateau. I roll a changa spliff with another 25mg, take it with me to bed with intention to smoke it as soon as I feel like it.
12:45am aprox - Relaxation overpowers me and I pass out.

Overall quite pleasant, feeling refreshed after waking up, but barely scratching the surface. I am thinking of repeating tonight, but taking 150mg fumarate right away. Unsure about the harmalas, probably the starting 150mg was enough inhibition, and the sleepiness was due to the 50mg extra topping.

I'm aware that every person is a world when it comes to pharma, but I wanted to leave this here in case anyone had thoughts or suggestions.

Thank you

 

[gibran2]

I would suggest giving a bit more time between the MAOIs and the DMT, and increase the MAOI. Take the MAOI, wait about 20-30 minutes, then take the DMT.

For me, 150mg harmalas is on the low end, but nausea is a problem, so I rarely go above 200mg. I don’t think 150mg provides effective inhibition for some people, and as a result much larger quantities of DMT must be consumed to get visual effects.

Here’s what I plan on trying next time:

T+00:00 - 90mg caapi-extracted alkaloids
T+00:20 – Another 90mg caapi alkaloids (dividing the caapi to hopefully reduce the nausea – we’ll see if this works)
T+00:40 – 75mg DMT (freebase)

I’ve been encapsulating, poking a few holes in the capsule before ingestion. It seems to work just as well as drinking a liquid, and eliminates the awful awful taste.

 

[Pup Tentacle]

I'm in a similar boat as far as dosage and similar levels of experience.

Today is another test day. Yay, I love test days !

I'm going to give gibran2's idea a whirl this afternoon.

Thank God for changa.

I'll report back.

 

[Vodsel]

Thank you, gibran2. I will give more time between the harmalas and the spice, and raise the starting harmalas to 200mg. As for DMT, I'll follow my gut and go with 150mg. I prefer to go a little deeper than wasting spice.

I'll stick to the orange juice though, since I don't really mind the taste and nausea has not been a problem so far.

@Pup, hope to see you around then

 

[Pup Tentacle]

Well, another test done, more info gleaned.

Sunday, Feb. 11, 2013

11:50 am - 110mg Harmala HCl
12:05 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 10mg DMT Fumarate
12:20 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 50mg DMT Fumarate

12:30 pm - I popped in "The Magic Christian" to watch while things started up

2:30 pm - not much going on, I feel a little something.

3:00 pm - commence with bong hits - this kicks in a little trippiness, but not really. Was thinking of smoking some changa, I decide to make eggplant parmesan instead.

** It's fair to consider that my psilocybin + changa session Saturday afternoon may have bumped up my tolerance, although I usually don't see a steep tolerance ramp with tryptmines on day 2 of multi-day adventures.

** I will say that the very mild effects helped me be able to re-think and integrate some heavier material from the day before. That was a real interesting thing to happen upon - which may come in very handy.

Next weekend I may try again or I may just eat mushrooms. All the lower intensity testing has left me with a taste for more depth.

Overall the first hour and a half were very groovy in a harmala way, but not very strong DMT-wise. I'm pretty sure my system is saturated with enough harmalas - I plan on upping my dose of DMT Fumarate from here on out until I start getting into the zone. This stuff sure is tricky - but fun to test.


How'd it go for you Vodsel?

 

[Vodsel]

Perhaps not spectacular according to the Nexus standards, but beautifully unexpected I left here a little report.

 

[jamie]

"11:50 am - 110mg Harmala HCl
12:05 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 10mg DMT Fumarate
12:20 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 50mg DMT Fumarate"



how clean are your harmalas? That is not really a light dose you took..

 

[Pup Tentacle]

"11:50 am - 110mg Harmala HCl
12:05 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 10mg DMT Fumarate
12:20 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 50mg DMT Fumarate"



how clean are your harmalas? That is not really a light dose you took..

This is a question I've also been posing to myself. They were manske-ed out of rue tea and cleaned once with methyl alcohol. I have a batch of rue on the way and am really looking forward to having enough to do a nice extraction with.

Hard to say for sure with the possible tolerance factor from the preceding day's activities. I'll try that dose again on a clean system in the next few weeks, probably with freshly extracted harmalas and see where I land before upping anything.

Good question though Jamie.... thanks for reminding me

 

[Jees]

What exactly we're using?

 

[Vodsel]

The alkaloid profile in Caapi does have a cleaner effect (and it contains THH, barely present in rue) while rue is heavier in the harmaline side, more accountable for the drowsiness and body load than harmine or THH, but also more potent for inhibition per weight unit.

The fact you need 1,5x, 2x or 3x the weight of rue extract to get the same inhibition with caapi extract depends on how pure each of your extracts is and on the variability of alkaloid contents, besides your own gut.

 

[jamie]

Isnt THH also barely present in caapi? I thought it was the long boiling process when you brew that reduces some harmalas to THH..this should happen in both caapi and rue in theory. Endless knows more about that though.

Some rue has almost no harmaline.

 

[Vodsel]

Phytochemical tests made with Caapi samples (Callaway, Brito and Neves 2005) gave mean values of 4,83 mg/g harmine (standard deviation 2,06), 0,46 mg/g harmaline (SD 0,19) and 1,00 mg/g THH (SD 0,79). Certainly a few samples returned small values for both harmaline and THH, but in the other side of the graph THH was found to be as high as 2,94 mg/g in some samples.

 

[corpus callosum]

I’ve been encapsulating, poking a few holes in the capsule before ingestion. It seems to work just as well as drinking a liquid, and eliminates the awful awful taste.

^^This has got me thinking regarding encapsulating.Certain prescribed medications (omeprazole, duloxetine) do come in a 'gastro-resistant' capsule which purports to deliver the contents into the small bowel for absorption to commence at this location. I wonder how this might affect pharma delivery in terms of ironing out some of the varibility that seems inherent in such an endeavour.

Im pretty sure Ive some of these caps knocking about...........

 

[Jees]

... poking a few holes in the capsule before ingestion...

May I ask for the reason for this?
Thanks.

 

[Vodsel]

... poking a few holes in the capsule before ingestion...

May I ask for the reason for this?

To speed up the release of the contents in the stomach. Some capsules might take a while to dissolve, making the come-up times less predictable. You might think after an hour of ingestion that you under-dosed, take more, and then have a surprise when both the first cap and the second finally melt and release the alkaloids.

@corpus callosum - Would that change the diet requirements? I mean, would using gastro-resistant capsules ask for an empty stomach to facilitate transit, or other factors like diet would be basically unaffected?

 

[jamie]

Phytochemical tests made with Caapi samples (Callaway, Brito and Neves 2005) gave mean values of 4,83 mg/g harmine (standard deviation 2,06), 0,46 mg/g harmaline (SD 0,19) and 1,00 mg/g THH (SD 0,79). Certainly a few samples returned small values for both harmaline and THH, but in the other side of the graph THH was found to be as high as 2,94 mg/g in some samples.

Wasnt that brewed vine they were testing?

 

[Vodsel]

No, they tested plant samples. I'm leaving the paper here in case you don't have it.

 

[chocobeastie]

Well, another test done, more info gleaned.

Sunday, Feb. 11, 2013

11:50 am - 110mg Harmala HCl
12:05 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 10mg DMT Fumarate
12:20 pm - 110mg Harmala HCl + 50mg DMT Fumarate

60mg is a mild sort of DMT dose. MOST people are not going to get too much from that, I'd say 72%. ;-) And this is where I say, as I keep saying on this forum, which seems to be unheard despite people continually reporting they took 30-60mg amount of DMT which they thought should give them a strong effect because of some strange (or not so strange) low-dose theologising on here.

You can't expect to take a mild dose of DMT and get strong effects, as 200-250mg are strong dosages.

see here for most people.

10mg - nothing.
20mg - tincy wincy.
30mg - maybe a bit of light.
40mg - a bit more light.
50mg - slight CEV's
60mg - a few more CEV's, patterns, heightened sense of visual acuity.
80mg - CEV and maybe some OEV's. like 100mcg of LSD?
100mg - visionary effects begin
150mg - strong visionary effects begin
200mg - can get very intense
250mg - can become overwhelming, can hit the spot!
300mg - as much as most anyone would want to take
500mg - avoiding relationship?
1000mg - gets too messy/fast/uncomfortable

 

[gibran2]

...
see here for most people.

10mg - nothing.
20mg - tincy wincy.
30mg - maybe a bit of light.
40mg - a bit more light.
50mg - slight CEV's
60mg - a few more CEV's, patterns, heightened sense of visual acuity.
80mg - CEV and maybe some OEV's. like 100mcg of LSD?
100mg - visionary effects begin
150mg - strong visionary effects begin
200mg - can get very intense
250mg - can become overwhelming, can hit the spot!
300mg - as much as most anyone would want to take
500mg - avoiding relationship?
1000mg - gets too messy/fast/uncomfortable

It’s not quite that simple. The “effectiveness” or depth of a pharma experience depends not just on DMT dose, but also on the MAOI dose. The larger the harmala dose, the smaller the DMT dose required.

I also think that what and when you last ate before the pharma experience plays a significant role. And let’s not forget the importance of set and setting.

I’ve had very visionary experiences with as little as 40mg DMT, and no visuals of any sort with 100+ mg, so there’s not really any simple rule of thumb.

 

[chocobeastie]

It’s not quite that simple. The “effectiveness” or depth of a pharma experience depends not just on DMT dose, but also on the MAOI dose. The larger the harmala dose, the smaller the DMT dose required.

Yes, to a degree. Of course, there is no rule of thumb, but say you are using 4 grams of Rue seeds, these DMT doses will bear out for most people. You cannot necessarily take 10 grams of Rue seeds and 50mg is going to be like 100mg @ 4 grams of Rue seeds.

And DMT is so variable at times, sometimes it takes very little to have significant effects.