Phthalates: Warning to those using plastic containers/instruments in extractions

[endlessness]

Chemical Compatibility Chart - LDPE, HDPE, PP, Teflon Resistance

www.calpaclab.com

Hdpe2 has no reaction with acids or bases and doesnt degrade with aliphatic hydrocarbons for at least 30 days. If im wrong please point out my mistake

polypropylene seems to be fine and so does hdpe2

What you must understand, as I said in the original post, is that "seems fine" is not really good enough to base yourself on, if you really care about health, IMO. Regarding hydrocarbons not degrading HDPE for at least 30 days, the thing is that this is based on whether the container will be significantly damaged

Like lets say you want to transport some gasoline in an hdpe container for your car, you dont want the container to leak.. But to your car it doesnt matter at all if there are traces of phthalates or plastic monomers, while to your body it does. They might put its no significant damage to the container in 30 days but that doesnt mean its not leeching small amounts of plastic that is significant enough to your health, Also read quote below from abused toaster and benzyme's answer regarding macroscopically-invisible but real leaching.

Since I already did my first extraction before this thread came out I guess I will be using glass in the future instead of plastic. That won't be for a couple more years atleast though and I'm deffinetly not going to be discarding the spice I have now

No need to discard it, as I mentioned before, you can for example redissolve your spice in acetone, precipitate with FASA, wash it with a bit of cold dry acetone after its crystallized and harvested, and later reconvert it back to freebase

I think that HDPE is relatively safe for use in extractions during the base stage, and if you re-crystallize your fumarates in IPA - or use some sort of polar solvent somewhere along the line, phthalate contamination shouldn't be an issue.

Recrysallizing fumarates with IPA/Acetone is a good way, yes, thats what I meant in the first post. But im not sure if using HDPE is really safe if this isnt done and its just a simple solvent pull done. I mean, it might be its so small amounts that it wouldnt affect too badly your health, but maybe long term it does, so I would say better be careful, no?


And, here's a few relevant quotes from another thread:

not all plastics have phthalates, but other monomers may be leeched into the solvent.

what about a rubber seal?

rubber is comprised mostly of nonpolar molecules; organic solvents are more destructive to rubber than aqueous base.

(regarding mason jar glass) it's safe for a quick extraction, but don't store very basic liquids in it; silicates will complex with the cations of the dissociated base (the so-called etching)

benzyme.. do you foresee any problems using a tinfoil "lid" for freeze precipitations?

nope.

from everything thats been posted, i dont think hdpe is safe, if if it corrodes in months, its corroding immediately, just not noticeably.

exactly. you may not be able to detect it, but a mass spec would. it would show a pattern of repeating units in the mid-high range (in an ion-trap mass spec)

 

[DeMenTed]

Good quality glass is defo what i would prefer.

Milk jugs are just so easy to get and cheap and recyclable.

The base or solvent isnt in there for any longer than a few days so i dont think many baddies will be getting into the final product but i do hear ya

i'll get glass one day.

 

[smokerx]

Ok reading all this I am now concern about my health. I always used plastic containers to do extraction.

Could we have some special thread opened about where to get some good glass containers for extraction ? Some US and UK , Europe suppliers ?

What do you think ?

For example I found something like this or this. Which one of these would be good for job ?

 

[smokerx]

For example I found something like this or this. Which one of these would be good for job ?

Any comment on these ?

 

[DudeMeetTyler]

For example I found something like this or this. Which one of these would be good for job ?

Any comment on these ?

both look fine, nice sturdy glass, though the lid looks plastic, wouldnt want to store any solvents in it

depends what your trying to do with them though i suppose.. solvent layer may be thin if your trying to separate with a baster or something but to mix base/np in then pour into a sep funnel would definitely work

 

[DoingKermit]

Thank you for this invaluable info, Endlessness. I have been using HDPE milk jugs since I started doing A/B's and am definitely going back to using glass mason jars. Better to be safe than sorry!

 

[Rivea]

My holistic doctor says to avoid buying products in containers with phthalates. Not all plastics have them, but many do. However I play it safe and avoid buying food or drinks in plastic containers.

As for extractions I use glassware. It is not that expensive and it is reusable many times.

 

[DMTripper]

I've always used glass but lye can dissolve glass so I've been thinking to use plastic next time. But I think I'll stick with glass.

And b.t.w. does lye dissolve all glass?

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

I've always used glass but lye can dissolve glass so I've been thinking to use plastic next time. But I think I'll stick with glass.

And b.t.w. does lye dissolve all glass?

It etches glass. So only use the container a couple of times. Etching is like scratching and can shatter glass.

 

[Shaolin]

I've always used glass but lye can dissolve glass so I've been thinking to use plastic next time. But I think I'll stick with glass.

And b.t.w. does lye dissolve all glass?

It etches glass. So only use the container a couple of times. Etching is like scratching and can shatter glass.

Concentration of the solution and the duration of the exposure are key here. Using a basified solution in a separatory funnel doesn't worry me nor does the beforehand preparation of a NaOH solution in glass container.

 

[Doodazzle]

My holistic doctor says to avoid buying products in containers with phthalates. Not all plastics have them, but many do. However I play it safe and avoid buying food or drinks in plastic containers.

As for extractions I use glassware. It is not that expensive and it is reusable many times.

Rivea, you are a genius and a diamond in the rough.


There is an island of garbage out there in the ocean, apparently it is pretty huge, most of course is plastic. Stop buying plastic dummy. Very simple people, very very simple.

Especially do not use plastic in your spice extractions--hyperspace is (well it might be) a shared dimension inhabited by sentient beings from many worlds. Some of these entities see what we've done to our world and think we are stupid monkeys...we psycho-naughts must be good ambassadors. Taking the same plastic which is such an embarrassment for our planet and using it as a vehicle for spice extraction...not cool. Conduct yourself with dignity.

 

[tony]

Stop buying plastic dummy. Very simple people, very very simple.

Presumably you typed that on a wooden keyboard?

 

[DeMenTed]

If these phthalates transfer into the dmt would an sc wash and/or re-x get rid of the nasties?

Or as endless says it needs a/b

 

[Luuk]

Freeze precipitating would greatly reduce the amount of phtalates that end up in your final product vs evaporating right? If they don't precipitate out I can't imagine them being in harmful concentrations.
I'm still gonna switch to glass someday to be sure, but I've already had a glass jar with highly basic solution break in my hands. Jay for lab protection!

 

[SLiCeR]

as long as your not wanting pyrex you can get lab glass so cheap it almost shocks me to think that anyone would even think of using something other than glass i mean hell you can buy a full extraction kit of lab glass for like 50 bucks blastic is a dangerous hastle i dont understand why anyone would even attempt to use it

only reason people seem to want pyrex is because so many claim its the "best" the only reason that professional labs use pyrex is incase they are making extremely exothermic or violent reactions that day pyrex is a safty issue -- for organic extraction you would never need anything pyrex pyrex is just an over priced brandname for us - and if your buying the non-brand name your only spending $4 on a beaker and $20 on a sep funnle amazes me people use plastic it really does - not to mention once you get your base set which would cost about 40-60 dollars a few months down the road you could spend 30 more and you'll have everything you need to make lab grade purity - or buy a jacketed water condencer and your instantly into high quality distilling - anyone ever tried to filter a liquid.. say 1 liter in 20 seconds with a high purity filter not gonna happen with your plastic jug and coffee filter.. its called a $15 vaccuum/filtering flask

sorry for the semi-rant but i just dont see the point in using anything less than glass

My pyrex beakers and erlenmeyer flasks were about $4 each. Lab glass in general isn't very expensive even Pyrex stuff, I tend to prefer the way pyrex makes their glassware. Much better than say Kimex. But I also have some nice Sibata pieces that I really like.

You should add a glass buchner funnel with fritted glass filter to that vacuum flask. This is my favorite way to collect my freeze precipitated crystals and the vacuum dries them super fast!

How do you go about getting the crystals out of the buchner funnel? i have a 35ml one but i imagine alot of the crystals getting stuck to the fritted disk no?

 

[SLiCeR]

I expect putting your acid cook in these containers (when not proceeding with extraction till later) should be ok considering the vinegar Comes in HDPE?

 

[benzyme]

If these phthalates transfer into the dmt would an sc wash and/or re-x get rid of the nasties?

Or as endless says it needs a/b

nope.
convert to a salt, wash with acetone.

I'd be more concerned with BPA plastics. BPA has a higher health rating.

 

[Intezam]

PET bottles are made from DMT and ethylene glycol? What about pickle jars - there's something rubbery under the lid - what is that....and would it be safe to use, if the NP does not have direct contact with it (no shaking)?
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We think we'll settle for the borosilicate 2000ml then..

 

[sleepermustawaken]

I am curious to know how much phthalates or other compounds would leach in to the naphtha while being in contact for only 15-20 minutes? Would it be enough to be of concern? How much would leach in to a microwave dinner that has been heated slightly more than it should have been? Is this a serious enouugh threat to our endocrine system to even worry about? Who needs an endocrine system anyway? That last one is jjks

Thanks for the tip on washing the fumarates though, what if the fumarates are large crystals though? Could you mix with water and evap both of them at the same time and keep adding acetone until there is no water left?

 

[1ce]

as long as your not wanting pyrex you can get lab glass so cheap it almost shocks me to think that anyone would even think of using something other than glass i mean hell you can buy a full extraction kit of lab glass for like 50 bucks blastic is a dangerous hastle i dont understand why anyone would even attempt to use it

only reason people seem to want pyrex is because so many claim its the "best" the only reason that professional labs use pyrex is incase they are making extremely exothermic or violent reactions that day pyrex is a safty issue -- for organic extraction you would never need anything pyrex pyrex is just an over priced brandname for us - and if your buying the non-brand name your only spending $4 on a beaker and $20 on a sep funnle amazes me people use plastic it really does - not to mention once you get your base set which would cost about 40-60 dollars a few months down the road you could spend 30 more and you'll have everything you need to make lab grade purity - or buy a jacketed water condencer and your instantly into high quality distilling - anyone ever tried to filter a liquid.. say 1 liter in 20 seconds with a high purity filter not gonna happen with your plastic jug and coffee filter.. its called a $15 vaccuum/filtering flask

sorry for the semi-rant but i just dont see the point in using anything less than glass

Half my crap is pyrex :c

But to expand on this, you can find cheap brands like seoh, bomex, lab-boy, and labzap for dirty dirt cheap off amazon. I've found lab-boy equipment for 30$ where the kimax or pyrex version was almost 200. Just look to see if it is 'borosilicate' glass, and not 'soda-lime'.

Walmart.com carries chemglass, what's your excuse?