Physical hallucinations

[DM3]

 

[newusername1]

It's so great to have a site dedicated to DMT because i think i could never say this anywhere else without being seriously frowned upon: Sometimes, raging fractal entities on the ceiling are peeling the skin from my face. In a benign sort of way.

 

[mcgettums]

Why call these experiences hallucinations, if you experience them at the moment?
I always see them as any other experience. It's what presenting itself.
The same way, we could call our dreams and everyday reality hallucinations, imo.
What is your reference point then? When you clean your lenses, more of reality presents itself.
This whole world is one big hallucination then, and modern neuroscience agrees on this point btw.

Our mind produces this entire experience anyway. So why use this old-fashioned concept?

Are you implying that a hallucinatory... *ahem. Entheogenic? Temporary perceptual displacement? experience shares the same space as an experience in "waking reality?"

"If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

While this question makes for colorful debate, and one could essentially argue that all of reality exists because one is actively perceiving it, I doubt that a hallucination that is induced by chemical reactions in the body could be considered any more than something "thought" to be experienced.

If this were the case, at one's moment of death, one could expect the universe and all matter in it to also cease to exist?

Experience, by definition, exists in the physical plane. We perceive light, and experience its warmth for what it is at face value, regardless of the weird shit that photons are doing on a quantum level. The things we experience in waking reality are in a completely different drawer than the one that our consciousness is in. Drawers that are part of the same desk... Now that's where it starts to get weird to think about...

LOL

 

[mcgettums]

Strange bodily oscillations or jolts/shaking, automatic flowing mudras/movement, spinning sensations, an intense magnetic pull and pressure around stone circles, similar quartz rich megaliths, and while eye gazing with others in these states. Smoking changa on harmalas would sometimes give me an intense body load that once worked its way up and out of my head, it was very blissful

As far as a more classic "hallucinatory" experience goes, I remember some of us here had been certain we soiled ourselves only to come out of a breakthrough to find clean trousers. Idk what is going on there but it's pretty hilarious.

I always try to relieve myself before I take a trip, ever since I pissed myself and opened my eyes to all the things in my garage laughing at me including me. It's difficult to hold anything in when there's nothing there to hold it lol

 

[northape]

experience shares the same space as an experience in "waking reality?"

All experiences happen in the same space.

I doubt that a hallucination that is induced by chemical reactions in the body could be considered any more than something "thought" to be experienced.

Waking reality is induced by chemical reactions in the body from a scientific standpoint.

Experience, by definition, exists in the physical plane.

Who defined it that way, if not humans with their biases and a specific model of reality. Physical plane is a nice theoretic model with some real life applications.

The things we experience in waking reality are in a completely different drawer than the one that our consciousness is in.

Nope, all experiences are subjective. Without subjectivity, there are no experiences.
Consciousness is nondual with everything else. Ultimately, there is even NO you in the picture.
This whole phenomenon we call reality is just a play in consciousness.
I just share my view on things, so no need to agree. Maybe I'm crazy

 

[mcgettums]

All experiences happen in the same space.

Waking reality is induced by chemical reactions in the body from a scientific standpoint.

Who defined it that way, if not humans with their biases and a specific model of reality. Physical plane is a nice theoretic model with some real life applications.

Nope, all experiences are subjective. Without subjectivity, there are no experiences.
Consciousness is nondual with everything else. Ultimately, there is even NO you in the picture.
This whole phenomenon we call reality is just a play in consciousness.
I just share my view on things, so no need to agree. Maybe I'm crazy

I wouldn't say that you're crazy, but you're wandering around in the details? If both consciousness AND material reality are manifestations, then they would be experienced somewhere by something or someone that may or may not be "us." If material reality is a manifestation of our consciousness, then our experiences occur outside of our thoughts. If consciousness is a phenomenon triggered by the evolution of material reality, then even dreams could be considered to be experiences, along with "hallucinations"

I guess the jury is still out on wether everything exists because we can perceive it or we exist because everything happened.

It's a mind bending topic, but one that is very compelling to think about. Especially for those of us that have ventured to those states of consciousness where the supposed laws of walking reality are shattered, revealed, discovered, or revisited depending on where one finds themselves.

One of the most powerful metaphysical "experiences" I've had was when I was just a child, 5 years old. I was curious enough to disobey my grandmother, who told me not to go into her bedroom alone. She was in her garden working, and I opened her door and wandered around looking at this and that, my little heart was beating faster than a hummingbird. Nothing crazy in there, just the looming danger of being caught. Once all my curiosities were satisfied, I sat at the edge of her bed. I can't remember if I closed my eyes, but I was looking down at myself sitting there from somewhere else. Somewhere that was definitely outside of my body, and I realized that the person who I was looking at was temporary and that I was like a pilot and that body was my vessel.

(I'm sitting in my garage typing this, and a cat that I've never seen in my life just walked in. I've lived at this house for almost 5 years and that's never happened lol)

Life is a fucking amazing trip isn't it?

 

[northape]

I wouldn't say that you're crazy, but you're wandering around in the details? If both consciousness AND material reality are manifestations, then they would be experienced somewhere by something or someone that may or may not be "us." If material reality is a manifestation of our consciousness, then our experiences occur outside of our thoughts. If consciousness is a phenomenon triggered by the evolution of material reality, then even dreams could be considered to be experiences, along with "hallucinations"

How do you see your thoughts? Where do they appear?
Consciousness is fundamental to everything, it's the basic space of experience.
Our bodies and the world are how this consciousness appears to an outside observer.
The whole picture depends on a reference point. If you see reality from a singular mind, then you see bodies and the world.
If your reference point is Mind-at-Large, then everything is an illusion, including ourselves. Only consciousness is real.

A number of pictures can appear on a cinema screen, but they never touch the screen.
All these pictures are just a play of light. What is real: screen or pictures?

So what is fundamental for you? No need to find any theories, just look. Everything ends up in your subjective experience.
You can never go beyond it and everything else are just intellectual games, imo.

(I'm sitting in my garage typing this, and a cat that I've never seen in my life just walked in. I've lived at this house for almost 5 years and that's never happened lol)

On a serious note, life provides what is needed

Life is a fucking amazing trip isn't it?

For sure, it is

 

[mcgettums]

How do you see your thoughts? Where do they appear?
Consciousness is fundamental to everything, it's the basic space of experience.
Our bodies and the world are how this consciousness appears to an outside observer.
The whole picture depends on a reference point. If you see reality from a singular mind, then you see bodies and the world.
If your reference point is Mind-at-Large, then everything is an illusion, including ourselves. Only consciousness is real.

A number of pictures can appear on a cinema screen, but they never touch the screen.
All these pictures are just a play of light. What is real: screen or pictures?

So what is fundamental for you? No need to find any theories, just look. Everything ends up in your subjective experience.
You can never go beyond it and everything else are just intellectual games, imo.

On a serious note, life provides what is needed

For sure, it is

The idea that reality is a projection of consciousness is compelling. Vague at best, it relies on a finite time line where the universe has a beginning and an end, much like the accepted theory of the big bang. The cliff notes, if you will, to the existential question.

If existence is a game that I made up, then here I am playing it. I will remember the rules as I go along, and occasionally take a peek at the results on the back page.

I prefer to believe that reality has always been happening and that my existence is the prize from a lottery with odds that encompass numbers too vast for calculation. This of course, considering that my body is made of atoms forged in the heart of all the stars in the universe. Every second and sensation is a priceless and unlikely new experience.

I have no objection to being the part of this amazing and indescribingly rare opportunity to perceive, to exist.

As to wether hallucinations are real or not? I'd have to try and answer that after processing the fact that my brain is even capable of rendering such awe inspiring "experiences"

 

[mcgettums]

I say bye-bye and kneel down
I yield, pray and kiss the ground
Gonna be a while before we touch back down
Ain't no turning back like a train
Sprouting wings, fuck the track
Hello sky, I'm all aboard this surprise locomotion
Oh my, oh well
Guess I'd better just enjoy the ride
My oh my, grinning and chatty
Tapestries and tile
I'll, I'll try to keep this conversation light
May be up all night
And I surmise there might have been Iowaska
Hiding in the water and wine, water and wine
Looks like I'm about to
Take a bullet train to Iowaska soon
Well, alright, ride, ride
Choo, choo, choo
Choo, choo, choo
Animistical wayside sabbatical
I say bye-bye
Gonna be a while before we touch back down
Hello sky, I'm all aboard this surprise locomotion
(Oh my, oh arrogant side)
Gonna be a while before we touch back down
Ain't no turning back like a train
Sprouting wings, fuck the track
Hello sky, I'm all aboard this surprise locomotion
Oh my, oh arrogant side
Or better, just enjoy the ride
Ride
Ride, ride, ride, ride

Puscifer - "Bullet train to Iowa"

 

[Voidmatrix]

I've definitely had experiences of physical sensations [of things happening that weren't] ie hallucinations.

How do you see your thoughts? Where do they appear?
Consciousness is fundamental to everything, it's the basic space of experience.
Our bodies and the world are how this consciousness appears to an outside observer.
The whole picture depends on a reference point. If you see reality from a singular mind, then you see bodies and the world.
If your reference point is Mind-at-Large, then everything is an illusion, including ourselves. Only consciousness is real.

A number of pictures can appear on a cinema screen, but they never touch the screen.
All these pictures are just a play of light. What is real: screen or pictures?

So what is fundamental for you? No need to find any theories, just look. Everything ends up in your subjective experience.
You can never go beyond it and everything else are just intellectual games, imo.

Now, fun time.

The first two questions appeal to materialism. We say that we "see" images in our minds, but are we really seeing them, or should an ontological distinction be made? I ask, because if there should be some distinction, then that may lend itself to the "seeing" of our minds to be a different sort of seeing not relagated to a where in the same way.

When you say outside observer, do you mean outside the universe? If so, how do you know this is the case?

Just because one cannot go beyond their subjective experience doesn't entail that there is nothing going on outside their experience. This is a conflation of the phenomenological with the ontological aspects of the situation. It's a kind of appeal to the "lower" interpretation of solipsism: the only thing that exists is one's own mind (more aptly interpreted, the one thing that one can be certain of is the existence of one's own mind; that doesn't mean nothing else exists).

Really, there seems a divide between us and the world we seem to be in and ourselves (I like to say that if there is an external world, we interact more with ideas about the external world than the external world itself). This divide, this wide ass chasm that we can't seem to close the distance on over millenia, is what I think we should be looking at. One could say there is a divide, not necessarily pure illusion.

I entertain a lot of ideas of things we can't readily verify. I can see a Universe without any Mind-at-Large, I can even see one where such a consciousness goes in and out. In both instances, the universe isn't predicated on anything really.

One love

 

[northape]

We say that we "see" images in our minds, but are we really seeing them, or should an ontological distinction be made?

I'm just trying to get my message across to the best of my ability.
Somehow, we know about our thoughts, and they seem to appear somewhere in our minds.
How do we do it, and where do they appear? It wasn't really a question in a sense, but a pointer. Just look for yourself.

When you say outside observer, do you mean outside the universe? If so, how do you know this is the case?

It's much simpler. What I mean is that from my perspective, I see this world and other people.
From the perspective of this universe, there is only consciousness. Of course, it works only if consciousness is the basis of everything.

Just because one cannot go beyond their subjective experience doesn't entail that there is nothing going on outside their experience.

Yes, but we can never truly know that. All we have is our subjective experience. Even our back-and-forth here is subjective to each of us.
I don't argue about what's out there, because I can never know it. All our instruments would be interpreted by us and become a subjective experience.
That's why the notion that this reality is mental is so compelling. This mental space is all I have, and everything else just appears in it.
Most likely, this mental space is all I am, too.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I don't feel that we should throw the baby out with the bath water. To say it's all consciousness  because we can only know that is mistaking what we can know with what is. Our subjective experience illuminates our limits, it says nothing about the world and its fundamental nature.


One love