downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Solvent-free? Not even water?Eluna said:
Or just petroleum-free?Makes me think of dozens of potential experiments. I shall watch this space...
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Picture of some changa from the man that invented it
- Thread starter Eluna
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Or just petroleum-free?Makes me think of dozens of potential experiments. I shall watch this space...
I just have to wait on our more chem head member at the international Changa insitute lol
But I will give you a run down, it has not been used for MHRB yet, but it has with iboga and it's been effective for that.
It's also not for small batches and it's also very time costly.
This is the basic run down...
Baron Nobus tek
"Soak powdered woods in vinegar 4 times'
Filter this solution'
Reduce it very gently'
Add ammonia solution'
Chill'
Filter'
Wash the mud in the filter with high ph water'
Let filter'
Dry the filter and the alks completely'
Crush the alks to a powder'
Stick in filter and wash them with a little distilled water' (or ammonai solution for spice' ammonia evaps' and also shall stop the delicate spice mole going through it's pKa')
Have no done this spice' (soon) but done it with Iboga' salted out Rue harmols' Cappi vine and Aya)) (saw clowns off a pipe of Aya' Oh my' HaHa!!)
Only for large pulls' and you wash everything at the end in vinegar to collect any alks sticking to stuff!
Use this seeded solution to pull fresh woods'
Add ammonia solution'
Watch the magic' "
But I will give you a run down, it has not been used for MHRB yet, but it has with iboga and it's been effective for that.
It's also not for small batches and it's also very time costly.
This is the basic run down...
Baron Nobus tek
"Soak powdered woods in vinegar 4 times'
Filter this solution'
Reduce it very gently'
Add ammonia solution'
Chill'
Filter'
Wash the mud in the filter with high ph water'
Let filter'
Dry the filter and the alks completely'
Crush the alks to a powder'
Stick in filter and wash them with a little distilled water' (or ammonai solution for spice' ammonia evaps' and also shall stop the delicate spice mole going through it's pKa')
Have no done this spice' (soon) but done it with Iboga' salted out Rue harmols' Cappi vine and Aya
)) (saw clowns off a pipe of Aya' Oh my' HaHa!!) Only for large pulls' and you wash everything at the end in vinegar to collect any alks sticking to stuff!
Use this seeded solution to pull fresh woods'
Add ammonia solution'
Watch the magic' "
well its a simple harmala a/b extraction, it should work perfectly yeah. We have a few similar harmala A/B extractions around in the WIKI, like gilbran's tek or the harmala extraction guide (which has as a main difference using rue as a starting material, the extra salt step and using sodium carb as a base because ammonia stinks, but its the same in the end. )
With rue though this A/B you posted will not separate the potentially more toxic alkaloids vasicine and vasicinone, hence why you need the manske salt precipitation step. With caapi you dont have those alks so you can skip the salt step.
I definitely recommend extracting the freebase alks and then mixing with changa instead of doing the caapi soak story...
With rue though this A/B you posted will not separate the potentially more toxic alkaloids vasicine and vasicinone, hence why you need the manske salt precipitation step. With caapi you dont have those alks so you can skip the salt step.
I definitely recommend extracting the freebase alks and then mixing with changa instead of doing the caapi soak story...
Well I would rather wait for more tests to be done than to say this works properly for spice. That post said the person didnt try yet with spice.
I have tried precipitating pure dmt that was in an acetic acid solution with sodium carbonate and it didnt work. I know some people got it to work with lye. Im not sure with ammonia. so depending on base/acid used, there might be different chemical properties that change how this works, and sometimes it might not work at all.
But notice this is for pure spice in an acidic solution. If one is using mimosa or full ayahuasca, there will be many more impurities, which can interfere with precipitation (preventing it or precipitating a lot of junk and being very hard to filter or just resulting in very very impure product). Also yield is something to question about, just because someone did and said it as "active" doesnt mean its an effective way to do it and that it will work every time.
So we need more people testing things out and giving us feedback on results. Thanks for the heads up in any case and feel free to start a new thread about dmt extraction with no non-polar solvent if you want.
I have tried precipitating pure dmt that was in an acetic acid solution with sodium carbonate and it didnt work. I know some people got it to work with lye. Im not sure with ammonia. so depending on base/acid used, there might be different chemical properties that change how this works, and sometimes it might not work at all.
But notice this is for pure spice in an acidic solution. If one is using mimosa or full ayahuasca, there will be many more impurities, which can interfere with precipitation (preventing it or precipitating a lot of junk and being very hard to filter or just resulting in very very impure product). Also yield is something to question about, just because someone did and said it as "active" doesnt mean its an effective way to do it and that it will work every time.
So we need more people testing things out and giving us feedback on results. Thanks for the heads up in any case and feel free to start a new thread about dmt extraction with no non-polar solvent if you want.
Dorge said:
I guess the name will stick
I have a bunch of questions about this although I would rather wait for the chemist of ICI since I presume his input will answer some if not all of my questions.
Sharing is caring, therefore thanks
EDIT: one question though.
"Have no done this spice' (soon)" What did the author mean by this ? That he hasn't smoked spice made that way or that he hasn't extracted spice this way ?
Shaolin said:Dorge said:
I guess the name will stick
International Changa Institute = ICI; seems appropriate:
ICI means "here" in french;
I SEE I;
Eye See Eye;
Icy I (?
);Very appropriate!
JBArk
I see I that's so awesome! Lol it's going to stick for sure!
To answer a question no he has not don't it yet to make spice just ibo, but he did do it to some ayahuasca with admixtures which he smoked and had visuals from. A good sign.
He said it works mostly for large batches, and that the impuriies can get removed with patience because the entire process is very time consuming in the filtering, thus the need for doing a large batch to make it worth the while. He will be doing a spice
Brb extra toon soon and getting back to us. The devil is in the details I know.
To answer a question no he has not don't it yet to make spice just ibo, but he did do it to some ayahuasca with admixtures which he smoked and had visuals from. A good sign.
He said it works mostly for large batches, and that the impuriies can get removed with patience because the entire process is very time consuming in the filtering, thus the need for doing a large batch to make it worth the while. He will be doing a spice
Brb extra toon soon and getting back to us. The devil is in the details I know.
chocobeastie
Rising Star
Changa is essentially a very simple thing, and when you realise this simplicity, you can see more detail and depth in its subtleties.
>kininnikinik leaves and red willow bark with 10x caapi leaf or even rue extract and add some nice Nootka wild rose petals for color and protection.
we be using wild rose petals in 2004 - in 2011, we be using sacred Australian Aboriginal plants!
You could just make a brew with vinegar/acetic acid... then just simmer it down very slowly! and then you have this goo, which converts into freebase at high heat. And then just add yer herbs ;-)
So these comments by nanobrain do not represent the words of the creator/inventor and neither did erowid report completely accurately at the boom festival.
I'm going to post something that should clear some things up. I woke up today and saw that it was time. Then I read this thread and I knew it.
>kininnikinik leaves and red willow bark with 10x caapi leaf or even rue extract and add some nice Nootka wild rose petals for color and protection.
we be using wild rose petals in 2004 - in 2011, we be using sacred Australian Aboriginal plants!
You could just make a brew with vinegar/acetic acid... then just simmer it down very slowly! and then you have this goo, which converts into freebase at high heat. And then just add yer herbs ;-)
So these comments by nanobrain do not represent the words of the creator/inventor and neither did erowid report completely accurately at the boom festival.
I'm going to post something that should clear some things up.
I woke up today and saw that it was time. Then I read this thread and I knew it.
chocobeastie
Rising Star
So if you are extracting into d-limo, and then bring it back into white vinegar, then slowly evaporate the vinegar either in the oven or in a stove, the vinegar will evaporate, but the high heat will convert the spice into a freebase. The result will be a hydroscopic gummy stuff which contains all the jungly elements especially.
A more crude way, just make a brew with vinegar, one acid phase extraction is enough, you'll get 80-90% in one extraction with a few hours simmering. So then evaporate *very* slowly, especially with some Acacias, as something happens at high heat which destroys the alkaloids (we don't know why this is so) However, you just have to know your yield would be, in order to make changa. Evaporate down until it is just a crude oily, gummy stuff. Then, re-ddisolve that into ethanol, add your herbs and make changa with that. In a way, this is the simplest and most natural way of going about making changa.
A more crude way, just make a brew with vinegar, one acid phase extraction is enough, you'll get 80-90% in one extraction with a few hours simmering. So then evaporate *very* slowly, especially with some Acacias, as something happens at high heat which destroys the alkaloids (we don't know why this is so) However, you just have to know your yield would be, in order to make changa. Evaporate down until it is just a crude oily, gummy stuff. Then, re-ddisolve that into ethanol, add your herbs and make changa with that. In a way, this is the simplest and most natural way of going about making changa.
Yeah but if you just evaporate your brew you'll have tons of impurities too which might be nasty to smoke in terms of taste and also in terms of efficiency (because only a small part of it will actually be dmt). Did you ever try this yourself or are you sayign theorically (and I dont mean the vinegar conversion from salted pulls, I mean the direct evaporation of the brew)
endlessness said:
Changan is fullmofmplant matter it's not like trying to smoke pure dmt. The impuriies don't really make much of a difference because your already smoking them. And because your smoking a maoi you build up a good leveling it in the ol brain pan and your good.... You just keep smoking and slowly work up to your peak... Works fine!
chocobeastie said:
Heheh not nootka rose unless your living in the pacific north west! Nootka rose is used by the natives to Prevent spirits from bothering you. All of the plants listed are used in the sacred pipe ceremonies of north America.
I am really stoked that your working with the traditional plants in oz of the aboriginal peoples. I have several freindsnwho are aboriginal, one died a few years back who was a law man and I have another friend who is a lost gen healer.
Good to see you here chocolate beast
chocobeastie
Rising Star
This works well, you will get a kind of goo. Add the herbs, with some ethanol and then you will get this hard, herby, gummy stuff with the herbs added to it, which needs to dry out.
And the smoke is not so bad, very smooth. Problem is it doesn't always light up so great, but the effects smoked in a regular pipe are very, very pleasant - yet not really strong.
It is more like smoking opium than normal Changa, in that it takes longer to get the required amount as dorje said.
It would be good to try it with really high yielding plants, 1.5%-3% and see how it goes then, then you'll have less goo and more tryptamines, and it should infuse almost totally into the herbs then.
What we need is a way to get rid of all the assorted oils and stuff that fills out the tryptamines. Defatting doesn't work significantly well in this instance.
And the smoke is not so bad, very smooth. Problem is it doesn't always light up so great, but the effects smoked in a regular pipe are very, very pleasant - yet not really strong.
It is more like smoking opium than normal Changa, in that it takes longer to get the required amount as dorje said.
It would be good to try it with really high yielding plants, 1.5%-3% and see how it goes then, then you'll have less goo and more tryptamines, and it should infuse almost totally into the herbs then.
What we need is a way to get rid of all the assorted oils and stuff that fills out the tryptamines. Defatting doesn't work significantly well in this instance.