PMS depression and microdosing?

[Loveall]

I have a dear friend who feels down before her period. Could be from hormonal changes affecting brain neutransmitter levels, but not sure.

There are some musings about microdosing psychedelics online (found people using mushrooms and LSD) but all I can find is anecdotal. Does anyone know of research for this? Can anyone add annecdotal data here (either positive or negative). It is still data even if it is not as significant as a blind study.

Thanks

PS: Calcium and vitamin D supplements could help - Some early/small studies for that helpinh with PMS depression in about half of the patients

 

[Voidmatrix]

From personal experience, I encourage microdosing. Just not daily. At least every other day. James Faidman (I'm sure you can find a little insight from his experience with this) suggests 1 day on two days off.

I find gaba at night helps with sleep and helps lessen depressive symptoms. I've also found smoking harmalas to have a very effective delimiting of depressive symptoms as well.

Some aminos may also help, such as L-phenylalaline, L-tyrosine, L-acetyl carnitate, and L-glutamine.

Wishing your friend the best.

One love

 

[PedroSanchez]

i have microdosed mushrooms with success. not PMS related, just depression. i dosed every other day, so dose then day off then dose, etc, and i increased the dose each time. my doses were (dry weight): 100mg, 150mg, 200mg and 250mg. after the 250mg dose i stopped and had a break for a long time.
i have done it other times too with success, but those times i didn't really keep a proper record of what i was doing and just took a tiny dose every couple of days without really planning what i was doing. sometimes it worked and other times it didn't.
none of the times have worked as a long term solution (but there aren't any long term drug solutions, depression is in our heads) but the difference it made allowed me to do some much needed work within myself. i still have not beat the depression completely, but it has made a huge difference, and without any of the questionable drugs the drs give out.
i don't think it is the cure for depression (at least not a long term one) it is more like it gives us a window to do some work on ourselves. one thing i notice about depression is it is self perpetuating thing, the deeper we get the easier it is to get deeper, the very existence of depression is depressing, but microdosing brought me out of that "haze" for long enough to take action and change things about myself.

i wish i could offer more scientific data, but i never think to record these things in the moment. i hope it can still help you help your friend.

sending love to you both

 

[dragonrider]

With things like depressions, it's good to keep in mind that what works for one person may not work for another person. So it's realy a matter of trying things out for herself.

NMDA antagonists like ketamine also have an antidepressive effect. Even in relatively low doses.
They ofcourse, have a greater potential for abuse and usually more unwanted side-effects than classic psychedelics. But the effect is rapid and usually lasts for at least several days, and if taken only once a month, then maybe the benefits outweigh the risks.

Some NMDA-antagonists have other mechanisms of action as well though. MXE is also an SSRI for instance, and i suppose this is also true for most of the MXE analogues, so these substances should probably not be taken in combination with antidepressants, harmala's, MDMA, MAOI's, and other serotonergic drugs.
N2O depletes the body of vitamin B12, wich could make it unsuitable for treating PMS, and it is probably better to stay away from PCP and PCP annalogues.

But i suspect that DMX in cough medicine already has antidepressant effects when it is taken just as cough medicine, in sub-dissociative doses, so in very small quantities that can probably be considered to be pretty safe.

 

[Loveall]

Thanks everyone! She is going to try evening primrose and add calcium rich plant foods (Okra, Kale, Tofu, etc). For now no microdosing.

Evening primrose is very interesting. It is native to the US and used traditionally by native Americans. A lot of a anecdotal data saying it helps with PMS and also some early science done.

 

[PedroSanchez]

i think it is important to stress that the mental work is key to healing. chemicals can help us clear our minds so we can deconstruct our own thought patterns, but once we get there we need to do the work to understand why we are doing what we are doing, otherwise we end up back where we started down the line. no chemical will work forever on its own, even if you keep taking it.

it helped me to be absolutely critical of myself. i put all my emotional responses and defensive mechanisms aside and allowed myself to tear apart my worst traits and analyse them. it sounds difficult to swallow but almost all depression is our own fault, we do it to ourselves and we choose that path. but we can choose another path.

your friend is lucky to have your support, loveall, you are a great friend

 

[Voidmatrix]

it sounds difficult to swallow but almost all depression is our own fault, we do it to ourselves and we choose that path. but we can choose another path.

I think in this particular instance it's more a result of PMS and somewhat outside of their control, so not really their fault. I do think that in some instances it can be brought about through our own choices and positions we put ourselves in as a result of those choices, but it's not always the case. There's still a great deal that we still are not aware of with regard to the breadth of the phenomenon coined depression, and for some already dealing with depression they already tear themselves apart enough.

One love

 

[PedroSanchez]

it sounds difficult to swallow but almost all depression is our own fault, we do it to ourselves and we choose that path. but we can choose another path.

I think in this particular instance it's more a result of PMS and somewhat outside of their control, so not really their fault. I do think that in some instances it can be brought about through our own choices and positions we put ourselves in as a result of those choices, but it's not always the case. There's still a great deal that we still are not aware of with regard to the breadth of the phenomenon coined depression, and for some already dealing with depression they already tear themselves apart enough.

One love

maybe "tear apart" was the wrong word, but depression is a result of our thoughts, which we can tame when we understand them. i am not saying we are depressed because of the things we do, just that we can control our minds with enough work. it can be brought on physically but it can still be tamed willingly when we understand ourselves. triggers might still be there but we can live with them and even get rid of them completely.
by "tear apart" i meant that we need to understand why we follow the thought patterns we do, what triggers us and what we can do to either fix it or stop caring (it is crazy how much trivial crap we let drag us down).
imo if we focus on blaming something else it allows us to avoid the work we need to do on ourselves to improve our thinking patterns. therapy and lifestyle changes are the most effective treatments, otherwise drugs would be.
i wish there was a way to express this without appearing to blame the person suffering. as lucky as this person is for having loveall as a friend, she is in this alone and will have to do the majority of the work alone. to pass blame to something or someone else hinders that healing process in my opinion.

 

[Voidmatrix]

it sounds difficult to swallow but almost all depression is our own fault, we do it to ourselves and we choose that path. but we can choose another path.

I think in this particular instance it's more a result of PMS and somewhat outside of their control, so not really their fault. I do think that in some instances it can be brought about through our own choices and positions we put ourselves in as a result of those choices, but it's not always the case. There's still a great deal that we still are not aware of with regard to the breadth of the phenomenon coined depression, and for some already dealing with depression they already tear themselves apart enough.

One love

maybe "tear apart" was the wrong word, but depression is a result of our thoughts, which we can tame when we understand them. i am not saying we are depressed because of the things we do, just that we can control our minds with enough work. it can be brought on physically but it can still be tamed willingly when we understand ourselves. triggers might still be there but we can live with them and even get rid of them completely.
by "tear apart" i meant that we need to understand why we follow the thought patterns we do, what triggers us and what we can do to either fix it or stop caring (it is crazy how much trivial crap we let drag us down).
imo if we focus on blaming something else it allows us to avoid the work we need to do on ourselves to improve our thinking patterns. therapy and lifestyle changes are the most effective treatments, otherwise drugs would be.
i wish there was a way to express this without appearing to blame the person suffering. as lucky as this person is for having loveall as a friend, she is in this alone and will have to do the majority of the work alone. to pass blame to something or someone else hinders that healing process in my opinion.

I think that what you've stated is best applied to people that sometimes get depressed but may not have depression. Everyone gets depressed from time to time, it's part of the human continuum of emotion, but not everyone has depression.

While I agree that it's best to find the cause so as to understand and better manage the situation and that finding something to blame only makes it more difficult for someone in a depressed state to really do the work, I think this may still be an oversimplification. Clinical depression is extremely nuanced and complicated, and what may work for one may not work for someone else.

Seeing as loveall's friend is dealing with depression as a result of her experience with PMS, it's going to take more than thought management, though I don't disagree with making life changes such as better diet, sufficient sleep, and proper exercise regimen, as well as therapy assistance. Like with other forms of depression however, regardless of the cause, when an episode occurs, everything drops, from overall cognition, to mood, to quality of life, and simply understanding often isn't enough.

I'll share this as a personal example.



One love

 

[PedroSanchez]

i cannot continue without hurting peoples feelings, but i can assure you i was not 'just sad' for about 35 years. at least i think we can all agree that most of the pharmaceuticals a dr will prescribe you are a big no no and will only make matters worse.

 

[Voidmatrix]

i cannot continue without hurting peoples feelings, but i can assure you i was not 'just sad' for about 35 years. at least i think we can all agree that most of the pharmaceuticals a dr will prescribe you are a big no no and will only make matters worse.

My apologies. I definitely wasn't trying to diminish your personal experience and was speaking broadly with my response.

And yeah, I won't say anything is all good or all bad, and I think meds can be beneficial for some, but the overall pharmaceutical approach is more of a bandaid than a remedy that leads towards healing, imo.

One love

 

[PedroSanchez]

My apologies. I definitely wasn't trying to diminish your personal experience and was speaking broadly with my response.

And yeah, I won't say anything is all good or all bad, and I think meds can be beneficial for some, but the overall pharmaceutical approach is more of a bandaid than a remedy that leads towards healing, imo.

One love

i just wrote out a long reply and then lost it so i will summarize.

no need to apologize, i know you didn't mean it like that, any confusion was completely my fault, my communications skills need a lot of work.

then i moaned about pharmaceuticals a little and said they do not allow a person to work on their problems, they just make our thoughts hazy and in comparison mushrooms are a different ball game completely, they allow us to think in a way we might not have before and can help us work through our problems the productive way, with a plan in mind or a goal, or path, etc.

i am very disappointed with myself for losing my full response but i guess i babble anyway

one love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

On a related note, a close family member experienced terrible depression and more when going through menopause. HRT completely sorted this out. I haven't yet asked if she resorted to trying pharmaceutical antidepressants but maybe this is something to follow up. The conversation about microdosing is another thing for me to look forward to.

We had a very interesting discussion which threw a lot of light on the historical basis for archetypes of the crone, witches and 'hysterical' women - as well as bringing some valuable insight about other family members and their quirks.

In short - do not underestimate the power of (steroidal) hormones!


In the interests of balance, it deserves to be mentioned that some people do benefit from treatment with SSRI antidepressants in the sense of being able to attain/sustain some level of functionality in contrast to their previous difficulties, even if recent studies suggest that results are no better than would be expected from a placebo. It's a matter of balancing individual benefit against statistical analysis. (I'd rather take rue anyhow...)

 

[Voidmatrix]

My apologies. I definitely wasn't trying to diminish your personal experience and was speaking broadly with my response.

And yeah, I won't say anything is all good or all bad, and I think meds can be beneficial for some, but the overall pharmaceutical approach is more of a bandaid than a remedy that leads towards healing, imo.

One love

i just wrote out a long reply and then lost it so i will summarize.

no need to apologize, i know you didn't mean it like that, any confusion was completely my fault, my communications skills need a lot of work.

then i moaned about pharmaceuticals a little and said they do not allow a person to work on their problems, they just make our thoughts hazy and in comparison mushrooms are a different ball game completely, they allow us to think in a way we might not have before and can help us work through our problems the productive way, with a plan in mind or a goal, or path, etc.

i am very disappointed with myself for losing my full response but i guess i babble anyway

one love

That's happened to me before in instances where I compose a response only to have it lost do to some error in the system. It's pretty damn vexing, and it raises one's blood pressure:lol:

And no faults here. Just learning about each other and in doing so, strengthening connect

I think the main issue with pharmaceuticals is facilitation. Whether one is working on themselves with SSRIs or psychedelics, there's a certain class of mindfulness and thoughtfulness necessary outside of taking the substances. Many people don't feel capable of doing rhe work on their own, so use therapy. However, the approach often is to take a pill, feel a little better, but not actually heal because the requisite work isn't also being performed and completed.

Perhaps I've said some of what your initial response stated

On a related note, a close family member experienced terrible depression and more when going through menopause. HRT completely sorted this out. I haven't yet asked if she resorted to trying pharmaceutical antidepressants but maybe this is something to follow up. The conversation about microdosing is another thing for me to look forward to.

We had a very interesting discussion which threw a lot of light on the historical basis for archetypes of the crone, witches and 'hysterical' women - as well as bringing some valuable insight about other family members and their quirks.

In short - do not underestimate the power of (steroidal) hormones! ...

... (I'd rather take rue anyhow...)

Thank you for mentioning this because it's something I've been meaning to do more research on.

And yeah... mushrooms and changa have been my effective preference lately.

One love