poor yeilds! help me obiwan you're our only hope!

[CTZeus]

hey guys,

So I've done my 2nd and 3rd extraction and I'm still suffering poor . I've been running Cyb's and earthwalkers teks i'm not sure where I'm going wrong but I'm only getting 0.4% - 0.7% yeild.

My question is druing the A/B clean the bottle appear very cloudy or milky is this my DMT?

Should I be pulling until the bottle appears clear?

I have kept my A/B Clean bottles (see pictures) and they have a large ammount of sediment/cloudy milky substance at the bottom is this possiblt the rest of my yeild?
and is there any problem with pulling this now?

cheers

 

[Tryptallmine]

hey guys,

So I've done my 2nd and 3rd extraction and I'm still suffering poor . I've been running Cyb's and earthwalkers teks i'm not sure where I'm going wrong but I'm only getting 0.4% - 0.7% yeild.

My question is druing the A/B clean the bottle appear very cloudy or milky is this my DMT?

Should I be pulling until the bottle appears clear?

I have kept my A/B Clean bottles (see pictures) and they have a large ammount of sediment/cloudy milky substance at the bottom is this possiblt the rest of my yeild?
and is there any problem with pulling this now?

cheers

Want to run us through your process? Are you deviating at all? adding in your own steps?
Do you have things like a pH meter to make sure your acid and base phases are within the desired range?

 

[CTZeus]

Ok this is what I did to the letter ran an A and B comparison because i this i had two differnt sets of bark. for openess I ran this with KoS.

== Step 1: Freeze/Thawing ==
Causes swollen cells to burst and free alkaloids
1) Add 100 g ACRB powder to 2 L bottle.
2) Add 500 mL water (filtered water only), gently swirling until thoroughly mixed.
3) Place bottle in freezer until mixture is completely frozen (can take 6 hours or more).
4) Once frozen, remove bottle and allow to thaw. Use hot water bath to speed the thawing process.
5) Once thawed, leave in hot water bath for 2 hours at around 50 C or until the mixture is the same temperature as the hot water bath.
6) Freeze again for a total of 3 freeze/thaw cycles.

== Step 2: Acidifying ==
Helps convert the molecules to salt form
1) Add white vinegar for pH of 2 - 4 (50 - 60 mL) and allow this to sit in heat bath for 1 - 1/2 hours, gently mixing occasionally.
2) Gently swirl, careful not to create an emulsion by causing bubbles or aeration.

== Step 3: Salting ==
Gives a high ionic strength to the solution and is more likely to form ‘clumps’
1) Measure out 80 g salt and dissolve in 400 mL of hot water to make dissolving easier.
2) Add an additional 600 mL water to the saline solution.
3) Add the saline solution to the acidic mixture in the 2 L bottle. The 2 L bottle should contain about 1.5 L so far.

== Step 4: Basifying ==
The addition of Lye (NaOH - Sodium Hydroxide) adds to the ionic strength of the mix. This turns the molecule from salt form to freebase form which can be retrieved using Non Polar Solvent.
1) Measure 50 g lye (max, only 21g actually required, but you cna’t have too much. Just needs to be above 12ph) and SLOWLY add it to 300 mL COLD water in a well-ventilated area. Do not pour water onto lye!
2) When the lye is dissolved, add it to the acidic saline soup that's in the 2 L bottle. It will go almost black.
3) Top off the 2 L, leaving sufficient room for Shellite to pull (about 50 mL). The pH should now be over 12 but not higher than 14.
4) Place the basic 2 L mixture in a warm water bath for at least 2 hours, gently mixing occasionally.
5) Remove after 2 hours and allow to cool to room temp before proceeding.

== Step 5: Adding Shellite ==
This is your means of extracting the molecule from the aqueous layer and ‘pulling’ it away to be precipitated into crystal (or Goo) form later.
1) Warm about 400 mL of Shellite INDIRECTLY in a hot water bath. Shellite is highly flammable so do not use direct heat or open flames.
2) Add 50 mL of the warmed Shellite to the 2 L bottle mixture, mixing/shaking gently for a good 45 - 60 seconds, being sure the Shellite reaches all parts of the dark mixture.
3) Allow it to separate fully (can take 3 to 5 minutes).
4) Repeatedly mix/shake again for a total of three times.

== Step 6: Initial Pull ==
1) Once the mixture is fully separated into two layers, pipette out the top non-polar (Shellite) layer with a glass pipette/syrine/baster. Be extremely careful not to disturb the bottom dark red layer or get any dark red specs in with the pulls.
2) Collect all pulled Shellite in a single glass container. It now contains the DMT.
3) Repeat this step at least 5 - 6 consecutively times, adding fresh warm Shellite each time.


== Step 7: Defatting == Removes undesirable fats.
1) Create an acidic solution with around 500 mL of water and a pH of 2 to 3 like in step 2.
2) Add this 500 mL acidic solution to a 1 L glass bottle with a narrow neck. (again helping to convert the molecules to salt form)
3) Pour the Shellite that has been pulled from the basic soup into the 1 L bottle with the new acidic solution.
4) Take your bottle by each end in your two hands and roll it around like bicycle pedals (slowly for a good minute or so then let it settle)
5) Repeat the agitation (mix and separate) for a total of ten times.
6) Now pipette out the top brown layer (Shellite) and discard as this contains the plant fats and oils. The bottom (clear) 500 mL acidic solution contains the DMT.

== Step 8: Mini A/B & Extraction == Re-Xtal
1) Measure 200 mL water and add 50 g lye to it, dissolving completely. (turning molecule from salt to freebase again)
2) Pour this into the clear 500 mL acidic solution. It will turn white immediately.
3) Top off the 1 L bottle with additional water, leaving about 50 mL for Shellite as in Step 4.
4) Add 50 mL of fresh Shellite and roll around so every bit of the solvent 'touches' the Base mix...transfer will take place on contact. No need to shake vigorously.
5) Allow to separate and pipette out the top layer, transferring it to a large glass baking dish for freeze precipitating
6) Repeat for a total of 5 times at least.



== Step 9: Freeze Precipitating == the colder the solvent the more the product will want to crystallize and ‘crash out’ of solution
1) Pre-evaporate with a fan blowing across the dish until half the liquid evaporates.
2) Cover the dish with plastic wrap or with anything that creates an airtight & watertight seal (like a large ziploc bag).
3) Freeze for 24 hours so crystals will form.
4) After removing from freezer, drain excess Shellite from the dish into a jar. Turn upside down and stand for 1 min.
5) Tilt dish on its side and face fan to dry for a couple of hours. Do this as quickly as possible.
6) After a couple of hours drying, crystals can be scraped for use.
7) Later pulls can be done until the bark is spent. Later pulls done singly don't require a defat and this is a good way of seeing if bark is still putting out.

believe we went wrong by not shaking vigoursly enough during clean, as we thought we might make an emoulsion looking back I'm not sure that its possible to emulsify the solution.

 

[Tryptallmine]

Well...your method looks sound.

In relation to shaking it during the cleanup. You don't need to shake it much at all. I personally just gently swirl it around for about 10 minutes. As long as the acidic solution is at the desired pH I find that it migrates across from the solvent quite well. I have tried shaking it to the point of an emulsion and it trapped a fair bit of DMT and resulted in a lower yield. It took a bit of heat to break up the emulsion.

In the primary acid phase I've always gone for a pH of around 1.75-2.5. I found slightly lower yields as the pH approached 4. Someone else may have contrasting experiences with that as the other variable is alkaloid content within the bark.

One other thing to try is if your pulls aren't coming out very saturated before your cleanup, try warming the mix up beyond room temperature, ie get it back in that 40-50degree heat bath. I feel it gets things moving a little.

If you are covering all bases here it's probably safe to assume that the quality of your bark is lacking somewhat.

I hope this helps.

P.S I find hydrochloric acid to be far superior to acetic.

 

[CTZeus]

thanks heaps but sorry I’m a bit unclear do you think there is anything left in my clean up jars or not?
I came to this hypothesis because it was my understanding that DMT was not soluble in water and the caustic is so I’m assuming the cloudy/milky substance at the very bottom contains some of my spice… please correct me if I’m wrong.
I have decided to run Pathfinders Crystal city method on 100g of ACRB to compare results and find my best method. But apparently methods can be deceiving because I can’t find where I’m going wrong with that tek but I’m not getting the yields…. Quality spice just not the yields.

 

[Pathfinder]

Best way to tell is to do a couple more pulls and see what you get, can't hurt.

 

[DansMaTete]

Did you test pH of water (The bottom (clear) 500 mL acidic solution contains the DMT) after
defatting ? Cause if the pH raised, some of the DMT could stay in the NPS layer.
That's why i'd pull at least 1 more times (2 to be sure) with acidic solutions at this step to be sure to not live some DMT behind in 'dirty' shellite.

I don't see other down side in your process so if you followed it right, the problem is your bark.

IME, the milky substance left is not DMT but as Pathfinder said, pull one more time, evap at least half of shellite, freeze and check if there is still some magic crashing out. Like this you'll be sure nothing is left behind.

 

[CTZeus]

Thanks guys.

The pH was at 2-3 (hard to tell when using strips, might be time to invest in an accurate meter) I've done some extra pulls this morning from both those clean jars and it's looking fairly promising - in the freezer now so just waiting till tomorrow to find out.

Have had suspicions on the bark and trying to source new supply asap to see if thats the problem...

cheers
CTZ

 

[CTZeus]

Hey,

Just an update I got another 0.3-0.4g out of the mini A/B from 6 pulls so I decided to do another 6 today and it's once again looking pretty promising, thinking I probably am not getting the pH bang on to get a thorough transfer...

thanks for everyones help.
CTZ

 

[fluidfocus]

Perhaps you need a more highly concentrated source from which to extract.

 

[oversoul1919]

That happened to me once. White stuff at the bottom of the bottle, and NPS couldn't pick it up. I don't know what that was, and I never found out. That never happened to me again.

 

[locojuiceman]

Could be your bark .. I've had the same thing happen to me a few times. Once I came across a good bark source, those problems stopped

 

[oversoul1919]

Could be your bark .. I've had the same thing happen to me a few times. Once I came across a good bark source, those problems stopped

Nope. I did 100g extraction once and that happened. Did second 100g extraction, and it didn't happen. Both were from same batch.

 

[fluidfocus]

Could be your bark .. I've had the same thing happen to me a few times. Once I came across a good bark source, those problems stopped

Nope. I did 100g extraction once and that happened. Did second 100g extraction, and it didn't happen. Both were from same batch.

Might not have been your bark, but could be OP's bark.

 

[CTZeus]

Sorry it’s been a while but here’s an update:

So after going back to the mini A/b and getting 0.3-0.4 I went back and got a similar amount a little less than 0.3 (went back for 2x pulls. nothing)
Still, what the hell am I doing to leave so much in my wash? (Obviously just pull more but I think it’s pH)

With this in mind I decided to go right back to the soup and took some fresh pulls did a defat – mini A/b – freeze and got another 0.3
^I’d like to say when I pulled from the soup I had much dirtier pulls that I have the last few times. I’ve basically only ever had clear and often though maybe I’m being too cautious with my pulls and leaving behind plenty of spice especially if I’m going to defat/clean anyway if anyone could shed some light on this that’d be swell.

Regardless I’m still only creeping up on 0.8% - 0.9%ish territory extract wise. My bark might be suss but I’m dropping the ball along the way if there’s still spice in my soup right?

Also any body ever had “difficult bark” that just wouldn’t give up the spice?
Should I be doing more pulls from the soup?(have been doing 5 or so) Is it kosher if they’re dirtier if I’m washing?

Anyway if anyone has anything to help this noob problem solve much appreciated
Cheers
CTZ

here’s some pics of what came out going back to the mini A/b and then going back to the soup

 

[Cinnamon]

I believe the whitish/tannish stuff settled at the bottom of the basic water to be excess NaOH, as DMT freebase floats in the solution and thus would concentrate at the top, a phenomenon I have observed in my experience with EWs tek. And yes, you should pull from your basic water until nothing else comes out, which can take several pulls.

 

[Bl1nd]

And yes, you should pull from your basic water until nothing else comes out, which can take several pulls.

How do I tell that there is "nothing else to come out"? Do the pulls look different or is this a long term process, constantly having to clean and freeze until it yields nothing more? If so, this seems labour intensive?

 

[cyb]

How do I tell that there is "nothing else to come out"? Do the pulls look different or is this a long term process, constantly having to clean and freeze until it yields nothing more? If so, this seems labour intensive?

Just pull and freeze...no need to clean each pull.
If no crystals form (or so few as to be worthless)...then your bark is spent.

Cloudiness or colour of the solvent IS NO reliable indicator of the amount of product held in suspension.

 

[Bl1nd]

As always, many thanks cyb.

 

[tseuq]

Cloudiness or colour of the solvent IS NO reliable indicator of the amount of product held in suspension.

Is this also valid for the solvent after basefying in the mini A/B?

love tseuq