Powder vs Tea vs Resin vs Acetate vs Hcl

[endlessness]

Have any of you guys experience with different methods of cacti preparation/extraction and ingestion? How do you compare them, in terms of effects, dosages and strenghts, nausea, etc? What about in terms of yield of extraction?

I have only consumed resin and impure acetate (and swallowing dried powdered peyote and dried powdered san pedro but it was many years ago I dont remember much). In my experience, 300mg impure acetate felt like around 5g resin. I only took acetate once in this dosage so its not a very accurate number, I would have to take a few more times to be able to judge the equivalence of different dosages. Since it was lower dosages, I couldnt note the exact difference in effects, it felt more or less equivalent, except the acetate felt much gentler on the stomach (I dont get nausea with resin but it does feel a bit 'heavy', as if it takes aaaages to really get digested).

At this dosage I get an extra shine in the visual and musical perception, I get very empathic and social, thinking in a larger 'range of frequencies' so to say, being somehow more philosophical/deep in my thoughts. It was an appropriate dosage to go to a good music concert with nice people.

Next time I would like to try doing a side-by-side extraction with acetate and hcl, to see both the difference in yields and the difference in effects from same batch. Also im interested in experiencing the higher dosages. How are they like, for those of you with experience?

 

[69ron]

For SWIM, pure mescaline HCl comes on slower and peaks slower than mescaline acetate. Because the acetate comes on quicker, it feels a little stronger. Taste wise, they are both nasty, but the acetate is not quite as bad as the hydrochloride.

There is one thing SWIM doesn’t like about mescaline HCl, and that’s the hydrochloric acid smell his body emits if enough is taken. I brought this up before, and people laughed saying SWIM must be just tripping, but SWIM’s wife and others notice it too, so it’s not his imagination. The smell is obvious. The fact that I’ve never heard of anyone else saying this happens, it must be something very specific to how SWIM’s body metabolizes mescaline.

Mescaline HCl is the easiest to purify. A few washes with 99% acetone and then 99% IPA will clean it up very nicely, giving free flowing off white powder.

For health reasons, SWIM has stopped using the HCl because you cannot easily get food grade hydrochloric acid.

SWIM has never had pure mescaline citrate, but has used resin techs long ago that were citric acid based. From his memory, the mescaline citrate was roughly between mescaline acetate and mescaline HCl in it’s onset and peak time.

SWIM has never been able to purify mescaline citrate (I’m not sure why). He’s tried many of the tech out there and none produced pure mescaline citrate, so he’s given up on it.

 

[pinche]

Ive had tea,acetate, and dried powder in caps, all several times.All San Pedro. Powder in caps was my least fav. It produced nausea and effects were mild.With tea there was always severe nausea at onset but then faded as effects began.Tea was also the strongest in effects. 18 to 24 inches of SP 2.5 to 3.5" in dia. was always nice. Never too intense but def face morphing/melting in mirror, euphoria and insights. But you have too drink shots of cactus snot and stink up your house boiling it down for 5 or 6 hours.No thanks.

Impure acetate a la 69ron tek was my fav(thanks dude:wink. Dissolved in coffee or yerba mate it taste good and comes on very quick. I could feel mild effects after 10 -20 minutes. 300-500mg always made for a great day at the lake or hiking trails.No nausea at all.Euphoria,loads of energy,and enhanced senses.

 

[endlessness]

Thanks for the input guys! Yeah pinche your description of the 300-500mg acetate seems similar to my experience.

Ron, what about making pure mesc hcl, then freebasing it/pulling again and salting with acetic acid or citric? This way SWIY will have as an end product something that SWIY's body digests better, no hcl body smell, but still having it a pure product because of the previous cleaning up. Would be an extra work, though, and one would still have to use hcl at some point, but at least it would be earlier in the process and the ingested product should be free from it...

 

[69ron]

SWIM has thought about doing something like that. What he’d do is use the limonene tech and get the acetate, so there’s no need to evaporate HCl, which is SUPER NASTY to evaporate. You get impure mescaline acetate from that, then you just add a little HCl to the impure mescaline acetate, just enough to make impure mescaline HCl. (Because hydrochloric acid is a strong acid and acetic acid is a weak acid, mescaline acetate converts to mescaline HCl on contact with hydrochloric acid.)

At that point you have impure mescaline HCl, you wash with 99% acetone 2-3 times and then 99% IPA 1-2 times and then you have 98% pure mescaline HCl (this was proven by testing it). The purity is fantastic.

Then freebase it in wet calcium hydroxide, and then dissolve it in food grade d-limonene, and then salt with vinegar.

It’s not as much work as it sounds. The end product will be extremely pure, probably 99% pure mescaline acetate.

At some point SWIM wants to experiment with other salts of mescaline, like mescaline tartrate, mescaline citrate, etc. A good way to do that is to first make 98% pure mescaline HCl which is easy. Then freebase and experiment with the other salts from their. It would be nice to know what properties these other forms of mescaline have. Maybe one of these other forms is also extremely easy to purify.

 

[kemist]

SWIM has thought about doing something like that. What he’d do is use the limonene tech and get the acetate, so there’s no need to evaporate HCl, which is SUPER NASTY to evaporate. You get impure mescaline acetate from that, then you just add a little HCl to the impure mescaline acetate, just enough to make impure mescaline HCl. (Because hydrochloric acid is a strong acid and acetic acid is a weak acid, mescaline acetate converts to mescaline HCl on contact with hydrochloric acid.)

At that point you have impure mescaline HCl, you wash with 99% acetone 2-3 times and then 99% IPA 1-2 times and then you have 98% pure mescaline HCl (this was proven by testing it). The purity is fantastic.

Then freebase it in wet calcium hydroxide, and then dissolve it in food grade d-limonene, and then salt with vinegar.

ILPT was thinking to do simillar conversion with only difference that the pure mescaline hydrochloride will be mixed with sodium carbonate and little of water then washed few times with pure acetone then add some vinegar into collected acetone washes and let it evaporate. He bet that the yield will be higher then doing freebasing it in wet calcium hydroxide, then dissolve it in food grade d-limonene, then salt with vinegar.

There is very little time for him to try this, but he will do it one day


He ate either acetate and hydrochloride and hydrochloride developed some sort of long lasting vomiting reflex. He doesn`t wanna ingest hydrochloride anymore and rather opt for impure acetate. However clean acetate would be more predictable ,he believe !

 

[69ron]

He ate either acetate and hydrochloride and hydrochloride developed some sort of long lasting vomiting reflex.

That's terrible. Why do you think that is?

 

[kemist]

He ate either acetate and hydrochloride and hydrochloride developed some sort of long lasting vomiting reflex.

That's terrible. Why do you think that is?

well he would like to know the answer too, he only shit himself after acetate, but after eating hydrochloride there is bad nausea which won't disappeared unless he vomit. Could be problem with acid he used. It's fairly yellow which means that some impurities are within.

 

[69ron]

He ate either acetate and hydrochloride and hydrochloride developed some sort of long lasting vomiting reflex.

That's terrible. Why do you think that is?

well he would like to know the answer too, he only shit himself after acetate, but after eating hydrochloride there is bad nausea which won't disappeared unless he vomit. Could be problem with acid he used. It's fairly yellow which means that some impurities are within.

That's the problem with HCl. It's very hard to get pure food grade HCl.

 

[w0mbat]

Hey guys -

This seems like an easy way to make reagent grade HCl from Technical grade HCl:

(you are gonna kick yourselves after seeing this) I have not tried it yet but it seems like it could work & yield a relatively "clean" form of HCl.

Another way of making pure(?) HCl, using technical grade sulfuric acid and sea salt:

HCl can also be produced using NaHSO4, salt, and heat. NaHSO4 can be bought food-grade online, making this approach seem like a pretty safe one. It just requires a test tube that can be sealed off so the HCl gas from the reaction of NaHSO4 and NaCl can be bubble up through water in another test tube. Link:

 

[kemist]

HCl can also be produced using NaHSO4, salt, and heat. NaHSO4 can be bought food-grade online, making this approach seem like a pretty safe one. It just requires a test tube that can be sealed off so the HCl gas from the reaction of NaHSO4 and NaCl can be bubble up through water in another test tube. Link:

A decent idea. One can possibly bubble HCL gas from reaction above trough the limonene pull. It won`t make limonene wet and therefore limo could be reused many times. If obviously it won`t react somehov with limonene

 

[Virola78]

Im planning to do two mescaline extractions side by side for comparison
from the same batch of cactus material:

69ron tek (dried cactus: CaOH, xylene, acetate, MEK wash)
vs
Phlux- tek (fresh cactus: tea, NaOH, xylene, HCl, acetone wash, IPA wash)

(xylene because i still have lots of it)

not to prove which one is 'better', but just for the sake of finding out which works (yield, quality) for me :d
i will be happy to share the results

 

[endlessness]

Virola, unless you made the dried cactus from the same fresh cactus species that you are gonna extract, then you cant really compare yields because its two different sources of alkaloids....

in any case of course any experiment you make is nice to share with the rest of us, specially if there's nice pictures involved haha

 

[Touche Guevara]

SWIM has thought about doing something like that. What he’d do is use the limonene tech and get the acetate, so there’s no need to evaporate HCl, which is SUPER NASTY to evaporate. You get impure mescaline acetate from that, then you just add a little HCl to the impure mescaline acetate, just enough to make impure mescaline HCl. (Because hydrochloric acid is a strong acid and acetic acid is a weak acid, mescaline acetate converts to mescaline HCl on contact with hydrochloric acid.)

At that point you have impure mescaline HCl, you wash with 99% acetone 2-3 times and then 99% IPA 1-2 times and then you have 98% pure mescaline HCl (this was proven by testing it). The purity is fantastic.

Then freebase it in wet calcium hydroxide, and then dissolve it in food grade d-limonene, and then salt with vinegar.

It’s not as much work as it sounds. The end product will be extremely pure, probably 99% pure mescaline acetate.

At some point SWIM wants to experiment with other salts of mescaline, like mescaline tartrate, mescaline citrate, etc. A good way to do that is to first make 98% pure mescaline HCl which is easy. Then freebase and experiment with the other salts from their. It would be nice to know what properties these other forms of mescaline have. Maybe one of these other forms is also extremely easy to purify.

Seems like -Phlux's method of salting the limonene with anhydrous HCl-saturated acetone (HASA?) would be easier than salting with vinegar and then converting to the HCl form.

 

[endlessness]

but ron's point was to NOT use hcl as the final product because one cant find it in food grade.. so the idea was to use hcl in the middle of the process simply because hcl precipitation and clean up gets the purest mescaline, but then reconverting it back to acetate or citrate or whatever, to have a final product that used a foodsafe acid as a last step

 

[Virola78]

Got all the chems i need. And also got the SP cactus cuttings: 10x 25-30cm from the plaza.
Some cuttings look different in color, from freshgreen to blueish. Also shape was different, ribs, grooves etc.
Clearly taken from different motherplants. As expected of course.

Virola, unless you made the dried cactus from the same fresh cactus species that you are gonna extract, then you cant really compare yields because its two different sources of alkaloids....

So i have treated the cuttings separate. Resulting in 10 piles of strips of green flesh (without skin). (Damn that took me allot of time) Then i have taken half (weight) of each pile and put those together in a pot. To make a tea -> Phlux- tek.

The other half of each pile is drying outside in the shadow -> 69ron tek

:d

 

[obliguhl]

Better dry them quick. The catch mold after 3-4 days.

 

[endlessness]

Got all the chems i need. And also got the SP cactus cuttings: 10x 25-30cm from the plaza.
Some cuttings look different in color, from freshgreen to blueish. Also shape was different, ribs, grooves etc.
Clearly taken from different motherplants. As expected of course.

Virola, unless you made the dried cactus from the same fresh cactus species that you are gonna extract, then you cant really compare yields because its two different sources of alkaloids....

So i have treated the cuttings separate. Resulting in 10 piles of strips of green flesh (without skin). (Damn that took me allot of time) Then i have taken half (weight) of each pile and put those together in a pot. To make a tea -> Phlux- tek.

The other half of each pile is drying outside in the shadow -> 69ron tek

:d

cant wait for the results!! what are you gonna salt out with in ron's tek, hcl or vinegar? If you have both, maybe do a side-by-side on that too, half the limo pulls with hcl and half with acetate

(hehe I know its a lot of work, whatever you do test is very nice to know! )

 

[joebono]

I've been experimenting with cactus for over a year and a half. I have had teas, resins, alcohol extractions, A/B extractions, and D-limo extractions. My trips have ranged from no effects to decent but mild effects. Even 1.7 grams of acetate left me wanting more, knowing that there was much more to the mescaline experience than that. All of my trips had been with San Pedro until last Saturday. I bought a bunch of bridgesii and made a tea out of 14 inches of it. This was the trip that I had been waiting for, I finally felt the power of mescaline. It was a full blown fifteen hour experience where the first seven hours I just kept getting higher and higher and it reached an almost DMT type intensity. The visuals were stunning, the headspace was cosmic, and the thoughts were surreal and abstract. If I were to rate the power of this experience with my previous strongest mescaline trip, I would say it was almost if I was on two different drugs. My experiences with San Pedro have largely been a waste of time when considering what happened to me on Saturday. Perhaps I need to really bite the bullet and eat 2.5-3.0 grams of Pedro acetate or three and a half feet of Pedro tea in order to see if it can bring me to the place bridgesii brought me. All I know is that I have a newfound respect for mescaline, a new love for bridgesii, and very mixed feelings about San Pedro.

In a few days, I plan on eating a large dose (2.7 grams) of my San Pedro mescaline acetate to see it can rival my 14" bridgesii tea trip. For some reason I doubt it be as good.

 

[Virola78]

I've been experimenting with cactus for over a year and a half. I have had teas, resins, alcohol extractions, A/B extractions, and D-limo extractions. My trips have ranged from no effects to decent but mild effects. Even 1.7 grams of acetate left me wanting more, knowing that there was much more to the mescaline experience than that. All of my trips had been with San Pedro until last Saturday. I bought a bunch of bridgesii and made a tea out of 14 inches of it. This was the trip that I had been waiting for, I finally felt the power of mescaline. It was a full blown fifteen hour experience where the first seven hours I just kept getting higher and higher and it reached an almost DMT type intensity. The visuals were stunning, the headspace was cosmic, and the thoughts were surreal and abstract. If I were to rate the power of this experience with my previous strongest mescaline trip, I would say it was almost if I was on two different drugs. My experiences with San Pedro have largely been a waste of time when considering what happened to me on Saturday. Perhaps I need to really bite the bullet and eat 2.5-3.0 grams of Pedro acetate or three and a half feet of Pedro tea in order to see if it can bring me to the place bridgesii brought me. All I know is that I have a newfound respect for mescaline, a new love for bridgesii, and very mixed feelings about San Pedro.

In a few days, I plan on eating a large dose (2.7 grams) of my San Pedro mescaline acetate to see it can rival my 14" bridgesii tea trip. For some reason I doubt it be as good.

Dude, you are a bit late with that one.
Im already halfway with the SP... :?

And about your upcoming acetate experiment... 2.7g acetate????!!!
You not worried about MAOI activity? I would..