I don't know why exactly, but i find it oddly satisfying to have seen a picture of a real black hole.
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Probably a historic day
- Thread starter dragonrider
- Start date
Wut? Can you link? :surprised
Very interesting. Only thing I don't get is how they can estimate the mass of this thing...they have nothing but a picture. We know so little about black holes, and yet they can say they know approximately how much mass this thing has? I don't buy it...Until we're close enough and know enough about it to compare it to something else, there is no way of knowing how much it weighs IMO...I may be wrong though, will definitely change my opinion if presented with adequate evidence.
Awesome pic.
Awesome pic.
ghrue84
Rising Star
Quick question (s) has any one of you seen a black whole with your own eyes?
How do you know that this "picture" is real?
How do you know that this "picture" is not digital art?
Has anyone here visited "outer space"?
How does anyone who has not visited "outer space" "know" that outer space exists?
How does anyone who has not visited "outer space" believe in outer space?
How do you know that any supposed "picture" ever published of "outer space" is not digital art?
Were there "pictures" of outer space before computers and editing/art programs?
I can't say whether it's real or not, but I certainly can't KNOW that that "picture" is a picture and not a digital drawing.
It looks like the eye of Sauron. How do I know if Sauron is real? I don't.
How do you know that this "picture" is real?
How do you know that this "picture" is not digital art?
Has anyone here visited "outer space"?
How does anyone who has not visited "outer space" "know" that outer space exists?
How does anyone who has not visited "outer space" believe in outer space?
How do you know that any supposed "picture" ever published of "outer space" is not digital art?
Were there "pictures" of outer space before computers and editing/art programs?
I can't say whether it's real or not, but I certainly can't KNOW that that "picture" is a picture and not a digital drawing.
It looks like the eye of Sauron. How do I know if Sauron is real? I don't.
Nydex said:
The visible material around the black hole is moving in a fast orbit. We can measure the speed by looking at shifts in the emitted light, the larger the shift the faster the speed. Knowing the speed and the orbital distance to the black hole gives the black hole mass. It's similar to setting a speed for a sattelite around earth so it stays at a certain altitude.
Jagube
Established member
Science is not about opinions, but verifiable facts. You can't say "Until we're close enough and know enough about it to compare it to something else, there is no way of knowing how much it weighs" without proving it.Nydex said:
I understand *you* don't know how to do it, but that doesn't mean there is no way of doing it.
It may be a matter of wording, but I think it's an important distinction to make, especially on this forum.
FranLover
Long live the world in peace, prosperity, and free
Nydex said:
Right off the top of the dome I am pretty sure that this is calculated by calculating the gravitational pull of surrounding bodies of mass, aswell as timespace distortions. Probably the Doppler effect is of some importance for calculating the distance. It baffles me too, but these scientist people are so smart and capable *_*
:d
You can question anything. But why question something if you're not serious about finding an answer anyway?ghrue84 said:
dragonrider said:
Exactly dragonrider.
It's being incredibly lazy (and it's incredibly easy) to say "How do you know......is real?", "How do you know.........exists?". You could take these questions and pretty much apply them endlessly to whatever you want. But where's that leave you then?
Also, making all these statements like this and then not personally defining what you deem to be 'real/not real', well ..that's not helping matters much either lol.
This whole game of real/not real, it never ends up anywhere conducive most (if not all) of the time, and there's good reason for that.
And also, why divert the thread into a real/not real questionnaire, when this threads not even tied in with that? A bit trollish no?
Very cool!
Now.... how do we get in/out/up/down/left/wrong/write? Kikker, ready my shuttle for launch! I shall prepare for the journey. :lol: :lol:
This is pretty awesome. Real or not - the world is an interesting place.
I met a flat-earther, in person. LOL. I won't even bother describing the conversation more than:
Flat Earther- blah blah blah all the things they are telling us are lies! It's all lies!
Me: Sooooo, you believe other people's lies in order to solve the dissonance of your own misunderstanding?
Him: hollywood, aliens, transgender conspiracy theories, blah blah blah blah.....
It was exhausting. I'm not claiming to know. I don't! But, I enjoy learning. Once someone decides that they "know" - then, for them, the world will never be "real."
ACY
Now.... how do we get in/out/up/down/left/wrong/write? Kikker, ready my shuttle for launch! I shall prepare for the journey. :lol: :lol:
This is pretty awesome. Real or not - the world is an interesting place.
I met a flat-earther, in person. LOL. I won't even bother describing the conversation more than:
Flat Earther- blah blah blah all the things they are telling us are lies! It's all lies!
Me: Sooooo, you believe other people's lies in order to solve the dissonance of your own misunderstanding?
Him: hollywood, aliens, transgender conspiracy theories, blah blah blah blah.....
It was exhausting. I'm not claiming to know. I don't! But, I enjoy learning. Once someone decides that they "know" - then, for them, the world will never be "real."
ACY
ghrue84
Rising Star
I don't necessarily consider anything real or not real. I believe that perhaps a universal truth is a rather difficult thing to prove or claim. I believe that claiming to "know" or claiming that you "know" that something is "real" or "truth" is a rather substantial claim and as such, should be accompanied by substantial evidence. Can anyone here prove to me without a shadow of doubt that this picture is not a digitalized drawing? Can you? I'm not a computer expert and I will not spend my time worrying about whether such a thing is real or unreal. I cannot prove or disprove it.
Reality. Is it subject to opinion, or is it universal? Truth. The same question can be asked of it.
Where does it lead to? I don't know. Do you?
What if everything is real, what if everything is truth?
What if every individual has their own truth? Their own reality.
What if words create truth? Create reality.
What if only what you believe to be true, is true?
Are truth and reality synonymous? Or separate.
Is reality polar or non-polar?
I think that every individual could potentially have their own truth. For example, lets say dragonrider believes that this black whole is real. Then perhaps in his world, in his universe, the black whole is real. Lets say that at the same time, I don't believe the black whole is real, and perhaps in my universe it is not real. Lets say I believe that these two truths could be coexistent.
But. What happens if they're not? Can they be coexistent? Does it matter who's right or who's wrong or who knows the truth? Does it make a difference?
How do you know if anything you think you know is true or false or truth or lies or real or illusion?
How do you distinguish? How do you discriminate?
Is it ideal for you to distinguish or discriminate?
Do you really care about truth or reality?
Do you care more about love and bliss?
What matters to you?
What makes you happy?
Is that what matters?
Is chasing happiness what matters?
If you could concentrate on anything or would want any particular thought or feeling or sensation to be, to appear, to exist in your life, what would it be?
What makes you feel the best?
Perhaps you may think that something is what makes you feel the best, but perhaps all of it is what you want. You want the pain the pleasure the love the sadness the variety. The polarity. Do you want the polarity? Or do you want union?
God would get bored alone. Would he? Why is there so much variety in this "physical" universe? Is there a purpose to it? Is there a purpose to claiming absolute truth or reality other than the ego?
God bless you all. I don't care how terrible you talk about me or mock me, I love you all anyway. I hope you all find what you are looking for. It's not the first time I've been mocked or feared. I'm growing pretty accustomed to it. Actually I'm enjoying it. Why get mad about it I'd rather laugh and play the villain or the crazy guy or the stupid guy if that's what you want me to be or prejudge me to be or need me to be in order for you to feel better about yourself. That way you feel validated. We all know validation feels nice.
The truth is that we're all sons of God or part of God himself and everyone is just as fantastic and magical as the next one. We all have something to contribute, teach and/or gift.
No one is superior or inferior so I guess I will validate the guy that says he found a black hole. But does it really matter that he found a black hole? What does that do for me? How does that affect my life? How does it IMPROVE my life? Maybe that makes that scientist happy and dragonrider happy and hey if that's all it does then it's a good thing. I'd like to think that God wants good things for us all. No exclusivity or preference. Love for all. Protection for all. Safety for all. Bliss for all. At least that sort of God sounds nice to me.
But what if none of it is true (even what I've just expressed as truth), and all of it is illusion?
What if you're being oversensitive to me just asking questions?
What if dragon rider mocked me for asking a serious question in another thread? He literally just mocked me without answering anything. Basically pre-judgement. People who mock others without trying the method or the person that they're mocking. What would that be? Ignorance no? Avidya no?
It's the same as someone mocking you or laughing at you for asking about psychedelics when you know nothing about them and they also don't know anything about them or have experienced them.
You laugh at me I laugh at you, you mock me I mock you the world goes round dragonrider don't expect what you do to not bounce back.
If you don't question anything how will you discriminate between real and unreal?
Viveka.
If you don't question? What do you do? You just accept everything blindly?
Is that it?
Reality. Is it subject to opinion, or is it universal? Truth. The same question can be asked of it.
Where does it lead to? I don't know. Do you?
What if everything is real, what if everything is truth?
What if every individual has their own truth? Their own reality.
What if words create truth? Create reality.
What if only what you believe to be true, is true?
Are truth and reality synonymous? Or separate.
Is reality polar or non-polar?
I think that every individual could potentially have their own truth. For example, lets say dragonrider believes that this black whole is real. Then perhaps in his world, in his universe, the black whole is real. Lets say that at the same time, I don't believe the black whole is real, and perhaps in my universe it is not real. Lets say I believe that these two truths could be coexistent.
But. What happens if they're not? Can they be coexistent? Does it matter who's right or who's wrong or who knows the truth? Does it make a difference?
How do you know if anything you think you know is true or false or truth or lies or real or illusion?
How do you distinguish? How do you discriminate?
Is it ideal for you to distinguish or discriminate?
Do you really care about truth or reality?
Do you care more about love and bliss?
What matters to you?
What makes you happy?
Is that what matters?
Is chasing happiness what matters?
If you could concentrate on anything or would want any particular thought or feeling or sensation to be, to appear, to exist in your life, what would it be?
What makes you feel the best?
Perhaps you may think that something is what makes you feel the best, but perhaps all of it is what you want. You want the pain the pleasure the love the sadness the variety. The polarity. Do you want the polarity? Or do you want union?
God would get bored alone. Would he? Why is there so much variety in this "physical" universe? Is there a purpose to it? Is there a purpose to claiming absolute truth or reality other than the ego?
God bless you all. I don't care how terrible you talk about me or mock me, I love you all anyway. I hope you all find what you are looking for. It's not the first time I've been mocked or feared. I'm growing pretty accustomed to it. Actually I'm enjoying it. Why get mad about it I'd rather laugh and play the villain or the crazy guy or the stupid guy if that's what you want me to be or prejudge me to be or need me to be in order for you to feel better about yourself. That way you feel validated. We all know validation feels nice.
The truth is that we're all sons of God or part of God himself and everyone is just as fantastic and magical as the next one. We all have something to contribute, teach and/or gift.
No one is superior or inferior so I guess I will validate the guy that says he found a black hole. But does it really matter that he found a black hole? What does that do for me? How does that affect my life? How does it IMPROVE my life? Maybe that makes that scientist happy and dragonrider happy and hey if that's all it does then it's a good thing. I'd like to think that God wants good things for us all. No exclusivity or preference. Love for all. Protection for all. Safety for all. Bliss for all. At least that sort of God sounds nice to me.
But what if none of it is true (even what I've just expressed as truth), and all of it is illusion?
What if you're being oversensitive to me just asking questions?
What if dragon rider mocked me for asking a serious question in another thread? He literally just mocked me without answering anything. Basically pre-judgement. People who mock others without trying the method or the person that they're mocking. What would that be? Ignorance no? Avidya no?
It's the same as someone mocking you or laughing at you for asking about psychedelics when you know nothing about them and they also don't know anything about them or have experienced them.
You laugh at me I laugh at you, you mock me I mock you the world goes round dragonrider don't expect what you do to not bounce back.
If you don't question anything how will you discriminate between real and unreal?
Viveka.
If you don't question? What do you do? You just accept everything blindly?
Is that it?
You can also question everything blindly.ghrue84 said:
Something comes out that doesn't fit your worldview?dragonrider said:
Just assume it's a worldwide conspiracy and pretent that this makes you a critical thinker.
Well, maybe true critical thinkers should also question their own beliefs every now and then. Instead of just blindly rejecting everything that doesn't fit their views. Otherwise they could be a thousand times as blind as they believe others to be.
ghrue84
Rising Star
Nowhere in my post do I mention worldwide conspiracy. You are the one who's talking about that. Look at your reflection and expression.
It's not about something coming out that doesn't fit my world view. It's about something that I cannot prove or disprove. I never said it was true or false. I just questioned the source and the validity and so far, no one has given any proof of validity or proof on this "picture" being real or unreal. I never said it was fake or real.
I do question my beliefs, obviously. It's shown in what I've written. "The proof is in the pudding" as some say.
I'm not blindly rejecting or accepting. Just questioning and asking for evidence, since I'd rather not use my time trying to find if this is real or unreal. I have much more serious and important "problems" or opportunities to solve in my life. Do you even know what it's like to have your back against the wall? I am wasting my time just now. Falling into your trap.
God bless. Good bye. Gonna focus now on my experiential truths rather than on externally proposed truths that do not help me or improve my life.
It's not about something coming out that doesn't fit my world view. It's about something that I cannot prove or disprove. I never said it was true or false. I just questioned the source and the validity and so far, no one has given any proof of validity or proof on this "picture" being real or unreal. I never said it was fake or real.
I do question my beliefs, obviously. It's shown in what I've written. "The proof is in the pudding" as some say.
I'm not blindly rejecting or accepting. Just questioning and asking for evidence, since I'd rather not use my time trying to find if this is real or unreal. I have much more serious and important "problems" or opportunities to solve in my life. Do you even know what it's like to have your back against the wall? I am wasting my time just now. Falling into your trap.
God bless. Good bye. Gonna focus now on my experiential truths rather than on externally proposed truths that do not help me or improve my life.