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Problems with chaliponga

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dread

Rising Star
I'm having a bit of trouble with chaliponga.

I ordered from 100herbgalaxy a 250g sack of dried chaliponga leaves. Now I'm trying to perform an A/B extraction on them. The method I'm using is the same I've very succesfully used on MHRB.

I started by shredding 100g of the leaves in a blender, then simmering them in a solution of water & citric acid with a pH of about 3-3½. I strained the acidic solution and poured into a jar, then performed a defat with 200ml of heavy naphta.

Then basified with NaOH until the liquid turned black, pH was >10 (my pH strips only go up to 10), did a pull with maybe 200-300ml light naphta.

So far everything was done just like I've succesfully done with MHRB. But nothing precipitated in the freezer, even after 24h, the solvent hasn't even turned cloudy.

I thought maybe there wasn't enough base, so I added more NaOH and tried pulling again, nothing. I thought maybe I didn't simmer the leaves long enough and the spice was still in them, so I simmered the same leaves in a new acidic solution, this time letting it soak overnight before straining. Otherwise did the same procedures to this jar as to the first. Pulled again with the same naphta, trying to freeze precipitate, but the solvent is still not turning cloudy in the freezer, indicating that nothing is there or if there is the amount is too small to precipitate.

What could be the problem? I'm starting to think they sent me bunk leaves. Or maybe the leaves are so old that all the spice is oxidized and thus won't get pulled with naphta?

I'm at a loss here. Anyone with experience of chaliponga extractions, if there's some extra trick you need to do to get the leaves to put out the goods, please share...
 
are you sure you did enough defatts? chalipinga takes a lot to defat in my experience, what colour is the naptha right now?..I never got anything to precip when I did it..I had to evaporate it and had waxy yellow stuff that was real potent..

I guess if it's real old it could be mostly N-oxides..try pulling with a diff solvent if you can't get it to work at all, and then convert with zinc or just use the oxides..I have heard that chacruna and chaliponga sometimes are mostly N-oxides and that when aya is made that way it hits faster and is more pleasurable so it could be that..

Next time I plan on trying FASA when I get some more chaliponga cus I am saving the rest for ayahuasca or else I would try it now to let you know..good luck hope someone else can help you out more than that!
 
fractal enchantment said:
are you sure you did enough defatts? chalipinga takes a lot to defat in my experience, what colour is the naptha right now?..I never got anything to precip when I did it..I had to evaporate it and had waxy yellow stuff that was real potent..
Click to expand...

No I'm not sure I did enough defats.. but can that really keep the spice from precipitating? When I've had fats pulled along with spice from MHRB, it's never kept the spice from precipitating.

Although something occured to me in a dream. What if chaliponga contains some kind of essential oils, which keep the spice soluble even in low temperatures? Essential oils are mostly allylbenzenes, which are structurally not very far from toluene and xylene.

I will try evaporation.

I really hope the alkaloids are not all oxides, because I don't have a proper solvent for them, nor do I have any reducing agent.
 
I evaporated some naphta. Nothing but plant oils, or there could be some oxide, but I doubt it since oxide is not supposed to be soluble in naphta.

So I'm starting to believe the chaliponga I have has all it's alkaloids in oxide form.

Since I'm having a hard time finding a source for zinc dust, I'd like to ask if anyone has had any success with the ascorbic acid method?
 
Do a search on Nomans post he used a a/b/a/b in comparison in to a standard a/b and even posted pix. I have used this same tek and spice is white and clean.

PEACE
MV
 
I need to get those oxides out of there somehow... I can't get DCM anywhere, I don't like xylene. Are n-oxides soluble in d-limo? I could get some, if it would work for pulling the oxides.
 
Well, since nobody seems to know... I have acquired some xylene. Now I just need a sep funnel since I can't use plastic to handle xylene.

Anyone know where to get cheap sep funnels in europe?

If I get the goods extracted from this batch, I'll be trying the electrolysis to convert them back to amines...
 
dread said:
Well, since nobody seems to know... I have acquired some xylene. Now I just need a sep funnel since I can't use plastic to handle xylene.

Anyone know where to get cheap sep funnels in europe?

If I get the goods extracted from this batch, I'll be trying the electrolysis to convert them back to amines...
Click to expand...

Dont waste your money friend I saw that bulb vapor mask you made you got the skills to sep with out funnel. You can get by with no sep funnel! Use glass small wine bottles with long necks work great and you get to suck down the wine. BONUS:lol:

I am serious man there are many ways to separate these things. Nearly all work excellent with PRACTICE that is the key:wink:

One could take some cooking oil and water mix together and separate there are a million ways to do it for free.

Search for thread "getting the naphtha off" many good replys.

I like shopping when I have plenty of cash go buy a sep funnel if you want thats cool but you dont have to.

Are you sure the alks are in oxide? Could it be something else? As long as you have everything you should be able to recover something.


PEACE
MV
 
Hi people, haven't been here for a while, but I thought I'd post some update on what happened with the chaliponga extraction. I eventually found some methods to extract the xylene from my chaliponga jars. And results were good.

Yes, it seems the n-oxide alkaloids in chaliponga are soluble in xylene, at least somewhat - yields are not that great, but the resulting product is awesome.

Hard to handle though, as it is in the form of amorphous dark brown goo or oil.

However, I mixed it with some A/B-MHRB-extracted with xylene (I mixed the xylene pulls from both extractions and set them out to dry, just to see what happens) and the resulting "coctail dmt" was the best ever.

It was first a translucent brown oil, but as I started scraping the oil from the pan it quickly hardened into this peanut-butter-like substance.

It's awesome, much easier to handle than the pure-chaliponga extraction which is too oily... (which is due to the chaliponga alkaloids being oxidated, I believe.) But everyone who has tried this "coctail dmt" has said it's awesome.


So in a nutshell, instructions (I'll write more complete ones later maybe):

take two separate jars, put chali in one and mhrb in other. Do the a/b procedures and defats (use naphta for defat) then use xylene to pull from each jar, mix the xylene pulls, and evap them together. You'll end up with this peanut-butter like brown waxy dmt. Which is hella potent.

That's all for now :)
 
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