psychedelic´s and consumerism

[polytrip]

In the iboga-section of this site, someone mentioned that at this moment tabernanthe iboga is being harvested in an unsustainable way...and we see the same problems with banesteriopsis caapi.

It´s also a well known fact that drug-trafficing is quite a nasty business that is bringing a lot of states in south and central america to the brink of disaster or way beyond it...mexico, columbia and bolivia are only the very well-known examples, but the problem occurs throughout central and south america.

Most of the marihuana and hash sold in western countries, has blood on it, just like cocaine. Only home-grown cannabis doesn´t have the stains of corruption and violence on it, unfortunately.

So....the psychedelic community, generally speaking, doesn´t aprove of consumerism...but how do we prevent consumerism to corrupt OUR OWN way of living?

Staying away from substances that may have ended-up in your neighbourhood with the aid of violent, criminal organisations, big bribes and small street criminals is the most obvious answer.
But what more can we do to prevent decadence from sneaking up on us?

Maybe, periods of abstinence could help us not only to integrate our experiences into our daily lives, but also to enable us to look critically at ourselves and our use of psychedelic´s.

I think i personally have had periods where i had too much of a consumerist attitude, considering psychedelic´s. The nice thing about psychedelic´s is that they sometimes will punish you severely when your attitude towards them is wrong....but i still think it´s better to come to this conclusion by yourself, or to prevent yourself from letting such an attitude sneak it´s way into your mind.

 

[Vodsel]

Entheogenic plants are a great example. A lot of us (hopefully, more every day) understand that growing our own tools and medicines solves the conundrum and makes a lot of sense, specially considering the nature of what they bring. Self knowledge goes deeper and is more satisfying when you work for it. If possible, from scratch.

For me, transcending consumerism involves three steps:

1.- Need less
2.- Become self-sufficient within possible
3.- Share and exchange

The first one is the biggest challenge imo, specially because even if you ditch unnecessary stuff, basic goods are controlled and delivered in exchange of, as R.A.Wilson put it, biosurvival tickets aka money. The monopoly in services only allows you to enter step 2 in less than ideal conditions, in most places in the world.

Psychedelics, in this picture, contribute enormously to the first step, needing less, by rearranging our priorities.

But by the time the mindset of the majority (tuned by psychedelics or by any other means) has changed enough to put real pressure into these monopolies, I'm afraid we'll be knee deep in s**t.

Now, we can only live agreeing to what we know and we have found. It's more than most people do. And it involves consuming less and more responsibly. And, of course, share and expand.

So, the way I see it, that "our own way of living" you refer to, brings implicitly the prevention against consumerism corruption.

 

[CatholicPsychonaut]

The first thing I noticed when I started using dmt was that the cancer of product fetishism I'd been growing over the past few years fell off like a snake shedding it's old skin. over my "straight other than alcohol"years, I'd begin to build an identity around the support of certain brands, especially Nintendo and being a "Gamer"many people hold onto this identity, and I now find it so alarming... Because all it says is "this is the kind of pre-designed media I prefer to consume. Yes, it's more interactive than watching television, but you are still on someone else's trip. Since I stopped Id'ing myself as a gamer, I am now finding time to read Finnegans Wake, to work on some of the destructive habits I've built up over the years (like a quote nasty drinking problem), and am even working on a book of my own, and thinking about grad school seriously.

 

[Guyomech]

This is an interesting topic because it addresses consumerism from two totally different angles. I can relate thoroughly to Catholic Psychonaut's experience, having gone through it in my early twenties during a previous relationship. My partner at the time was very materialistic, and although I had tasted LSD a few times there had been no snakeskin-shedding breakthrough. Even though my parents had raised me to be suspicious of materialism, I found it very easy to slide into that mindset gradually without noticing it, with my ego desiring a status-conveying motor vehicle etc.

So that relationship ended, I hooked up with my current partner (20 years ago this Halloween) and began tripping in earnest, shed that snakeskin quickly and with no regrets (thanks Vodsel for the great metaphor).

So the psychedelic experience undoubtedly breaks down consumerist attitudes. Meanwhile, though comes the "psychedelic consumerism" mentioned here, with unsustainable harvesting going on. I think most of us should assume that our MHRB is not being sustainably harvested. And that the harvesting in question is being done by folks with no interest in the molecule, just $.

The answer of growing the stuff ourselves is tricky, and in fact does present an insurmountable barrier to many. DMT is definitely going through a period of popularization... And only time will tell if our community can come to an accommodation with all the myriad market, legal and ecological issues inherent in the situation.

 

[VoidTraveler]

There is another way to get around the unsustainable harvested plants: grow them commercially ourselves. I've played with the idea to attempt to find a cheap greenhouse close to me and grow caapi and chacruna. I've played with the idea to grown them until they're small but strong plants and sell them potted or sell dried material. But I'm currently in no position to start new endeavors as I'm finishing up a previous one first. The idea would require research to figure out how profitable it would be and if there would be any possible legal implications to this.

I'm aware that certain people frown upon commercial exploitation of these plants but we as a community cannot deny that the interest in these medicines is on the rise. And I expect that the demand will grow bigger the coming years. I doubt psychedelics will become a regular thing for a lot of people and are more of a thing that they try a few times before moving on. Not everybody is born to be psychonaut but they will still wish to experience it maybe once or a few times.

Modern society relies heavily on specialization. Most of us don't grow our own food and from that point of view, most people don't want to grow their own psychedelic plants either. They're willing to spend a day in the kitchen to cook an epic meal and will most likely don't mind spending a day in the kitchen brewing cactus tea or ayahuasca. If we aren't growing them, then who is?

I believe these plants can be grown in a sustainable and honest fashion for a fair price. That way we all benefit: nature benefits because plants in the wild are left alone, the plants benefit because they're grown with love and compassion, the people that wish to experience psychedelics once or twice get quality products for a fair price and the grower benefits because he can live a good life while serving the plants, nature and those that wish to consume ready-to-go entheogens. Because the grower is spending all of his/her time on the growing of these plants he is rewarded with a monetary reward so he can pay for his/her living expenses. If such an operation would be very profitable the grower could decide to invest a part of the profit in projects for rain forest preservation projects to make ensure the profit translates back to nature.

 

[alert]

In the iboga-section of this site, someone mentioned that at this moment tabernanthe iboga is being harvested in an unsustainable way...and we see the same problems with banesteriopsis caapi.

At the risk of sounding snarky, which I really don't intend to be, take a break from the plants and eat moar LSD

There is nothing the end user of these plants can do to maintain their sustainability besides not purchasing them unless you know for sure they are being sold by an ethical vendor, or grow them yourself.

 

[highRvibratoryfreq]

'alert' your suggestion of eating more lsd plays straight into the crux of what this thread is about. and thats consumerism. take for instance a large psychedelic music gathering like Boom festival you have upwards of 50 thousand psytrancers all wanting to get trippy now thats a lot of people, and consumerism and scale are the problem, just like factory farming, when things become mass produced or done on a large scale it leaves gaps for negative energys to creep in. in the meat world this takes the form of bad living conditions, diseases, and general greed taking over.

now as for psychedelics whos gonna have the connections to make that much acid all the precursors etc, not yor average joe, so inevitably organised criminals gangs step in as they see it as a profitable market. and they have the connections. and inevitably just like in south america with the cocaine im sure its stained with blood and violence somewhere down the line. the same thing happens with MDMA harvesting sas trees in virgin rainforests to make safrole. so most of the drugs people are consuming on large scales, become about the money a mere commodity they lose something along the way.

but there is a conundrum just like with people eating good organic food instead of mass produced crap and thats, if you take it into your own hands grow your own food your own medicinal plants you solve the problem for yourself and your close friends, but it doesnt solve the problem for the masses not everybody can turn around and all at once say there going to grow what they want the system doesnt support/allow it, most people are to pre programmed anywayto even consider it.

I believe these plants can be grown in a sustainable and honest fashion for a fair price. That way we all benefit: nature benefits because plants in the wild are left alone, the plants benefit because they're grown with love and compassion, the people that wish to experience psychedelics once or twice get quality products for a fair price and the grower benefits because he can live a good life while serving the plants, nature and those that wish to consume ready-to-go entheogens. Because the grower is spending all of his/her time on the growing of these plants he is rewarded with a monetary reward so he can pay for his/her living expenses. If such an operation would be very profitable the grower could decide to invest a part of the profit in projects for rain forest preservation projects to make ensure the profit translates back to nature.

i couldnt agree more with this void, i think these are the first small steps people can take and the more people that do hopefuly the bigger ripple it will create. however it is still just a drop in the ocean, albeit a drop is better than no drop atall! people need to earn a living and if its done honestly creating a genuinely good product full of good energy and intentions then everybody wins.

but how to solve the large scale puzzle if everybody suddenly turns on tunes in and wants to drop out, where's the plethora of mind altering substances going to come from? if they remain illegal then sadly i think the same story will always play out. and even if they become Legal whos to say the governments wouldnt find a way of corrupting them somehow like they have done with tobacco?

 

[Ringworm]

There is another way to get around the unsustainable harvested plants: grow them commercially ourselves. I've played with the idea to attempt to find a cheap greenhouse close to me and grow caapi and chacruna.

and your cost in producing these plants will easily be 150times what they are currently being retailed for. Many people also lack the understanding of exactly how many dried leaves equal a lb (most times, it's a real lot of them). I know this from experience.

Having sold a few of these plants, one thing became terribly apparent.
People are REALLY lazy when it comes to growing a plant that takes 5 years to grow to maturity when they can just swipe a credit card and get the dead plant material delivered to their door in less than a week.

Over time, and a few spiritual journeys, I'm not going to say that materialism doesn't effect me... I will say that it is obvious to me when I begin to enter into this behavior, and thus easier to circumvent before anything comes of it.

 

[highRvibratoryfreq]

well more often than not it comes down to the path of least resistance for most people,
which is indeed using the creditcard to get what they need delivered thats the world we live in!
however if more people are willing to be the person thats a conscious producer instead of a lazy consumer.
the quality of products will be improved in the long run. and everyone will benefit.
not everybody is in the right climate or position to do this but where theres a will theres a way. if you want something bad enough you can make it happen! even owning a cactus farm, or a growing many species and selling seed its all possible. you just gotta work hard for these dreams to become a reality.

its like making the perfect meal from home grown produce, the joy you get out of eating it comes from the hard work and the journey to get to that point, thats what makes it taste so good, a deeper appreciation respect and understanding on how that meal got to your plate.

same applies for psychs aswell, the magic is in the journey not the destination.

I'm not going to say that materialism doesn't effect me... I will say that it is obvious to me when I begin to enter into this behavior, and thus easier to circumvent before anything comes of it.

materialism will always try to creep up on you especially if thats the culture you were brought up in!

 

[Ilex]

A lot of wild plants are sensitive to overharvesting, especially if the part you use is a root or bark (since the plants are often killed or severely set back during harvesting). I always wondered that about Mimosa root bark, how much had been harvested over the last few years and how "sustainable" it really was.

If the demand for a wild plant consistently exceeds the amount that can be sustainably harvested, cultivation is the way to go. It is interesting to see how many of these entheogenic plants that were once geographically restricted and mostly wild harvested, are starting to be cultivated around the globe. I am hopeful that increasing cultivation of these medicines will take pressure off the wild populations.

If you are getting wild harvested plants, take the time to ask your vendors where they source their herbs and details of their harvesting practices. You vote with your dollars, so taking the time to find a source who harvests in a more sustainable and ethical way makes a difference. It sends a message that sustainability matters to the consumer.

 

[jamie]

Mimosa hostilis is one tree that can be easily harvested in a sustainable mannor, compared to something like acacia confusa rootbark(the though branch bark probly can be). If people are choosing to not harvest mimosa sustainably that is truely a sad thing.

Mimosa can handle a good portion of the roots being harvested every few years or w/e..it does not kill the tree..many mimosa farms cycle the harvesting so that some trees are harvested that year while the rest are left to regrow the root stock for another years harvest..at least the really sustainable ones do it this way.

It is also a very fast growing tree. I grow mimosa indoors in canada, and one of my trees is about 4.5 feet tall now in less than a year..that is really slow compared to how it will grow in it's native climate. It seems to be a good source in that it can handle harvesting without killing the tree, it has a large % and it is very fast growing..like a weed where in it's native region.

In reality though, we are not the main consumers of mimosa..DMT users buying mimosa are really a very small minority compared to the skin care industry that uses vast quantities of mimosa bark every year.

The overharvesting of these sort of plants is alarming though..take iboga for instance..it's a sad situation that people have chosen to forego sustainability and the future of such a plant at the chance to make another buck.

 

[Ringworm]

Is mimosa actually used by the skin care industry? If so, what companies are actually importing it?

I haven't been to Mexico or Brazil to see, but based on local plants that grow in the same manner, I'm inclined to believe that it'd be a fairly weedy plant in it's native environment.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Is mimosa actually used by the skin care industry? If so, what companies are actually importing it?

Yea...you can find it from a host of online cosmetic stores if you look for it. It's not rootbark and looks quite different from what was so widely available not long ago. I helped a friend who had non-rootbark mimosa powder extract a couple of years ago. The yield was abysmal.

As to sustainability...industrial society is inherently sustainable. Any attempts to address sustainability through a paradigm of infinite growth and industrial technology on a finite planet are bound to fail, imo.

 

[Ilex]

Mimosa hostilis is one tree that can be easily harvested in a sustainable mannor, compared to something like acacia confusa rootbark(the though branch bark probly can be). If people are choosing to not harvest mimosa sustainably that is truely a sad thing.

Mimosa can handle a good portion of the roots being harvested every few years or w/e..it does not kill the tree..many mimosa farms cycle the harvesting so that some trees are harvested that year while the rest are left to regrow the root stock for another years harvest..at least the really sustainable ones do it this way.

It is also a very fast growing tree. I grow mimosa indoors in canada, and one of my trees is about 4.5 feet tall now in less than a year..that is really slow compared to how it will grow in it's native climate. It seems to be a good source in that it can handle harvesting without killing the tree, it has a large % and it is very fast growing..like a weed where in it's native region.

Cool, thanks for this info on Mimosa harvesting, I didn't realize it was so fast growing and able to recover from harvesting of root bark. You make me want to try and grow one!

I ran across a Mimosa essential oil one time, which was recommended to add to skin care products. It was amber coloured and very thick, almost a resin. Not psychoactive of course, but it sure smelled good.

 

[jamie]

There is an old report in entheogen review that claims the leaves are active and very good to use in brews..the dose was 1 cup of dry leaves. So if this really is the case(and I have a feeling it is) than it would be interesting for at home growers and mimosa farmers as I am sure they end up with tons of left over leaves from the harvesting of branch bark for skin care products, unless they also use the leaves.

I have a little jar of leaves and leaf twigs thats been soaking in iso for months..I just add bits to it here and there..at some point it will be tested with TLC..I dont know what age the trees begin to produce DMT thought in the leaves either..so I might find nothing but NMT until my trees are a couple years old.