Psychoplastogens

[RhythmSpring]

We wouldn't want to have any FUN while we heal, now would we?

 

[dithyramb]

I can't claim this with certainty because the research might not have been properly done, however I would guess that there can not be a "psychoplastogen" that does not have "psychedelic" effects. At the very least they should be less effective in that way


BTW, psychedelics don't necessarily transform people for the better either... All too often the shift is temporary, and sometimes the shift is into a worse, dark direction. Proper intention is vital with psychedelics, seeing them as mere substances with mechanistic effects is a pitfall which we have yet to culturally overcome.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Noticed this inaccuracy in the Forbes article:

Patients on SSRIs also should not take psychedelics for risk of adverse reactions.

Patients on SSRIs shouldn't bother taking psychedelics because they won't work - but has anyone ever examined whether the neuroplasticity effects still occur when co-administering SSRIs with serotonergic psychedelics?

Safety restatement: do not combine SSRIs with MAOIs including RIMAs such as harmala alkaloids found in ayahuasca or Syrian rue.

he views the psychedelic experience as an “intolerable, deleterious” side effect

I bet he's fun at parties...

But if he’s successful with his moonshot mission, well, he doesn’t mince words: “It’ll transform humanity,” he says.

A mission to allow soldiers to carry on killing people without suffering PTSD? Sounds rather suspect to me - give that guy some shrooms and a hug.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Have you experimented with Lion's mane? I have taken it a couple of times, but can't really tell the difference. I believe it is useful, but don't really know what kind of intention I should put into using it.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Here is a new article discussing this topic with input from Rick Doblin (spoiler: he doesn't seem too warm to the idea of using resources to remove the psychedelic effects at this time).

The Future Of Psychedelic Medicine Might Skip The Trip

This thread is discussing the same matter. Title of the thread is unclear about this, unfortunately.

 

[shroombee]

Patients on SSRIs shouldn't bother taking psychedelics because they won't work - but has anyone ever examined whether the neuroplasticity effects still occur when co-administering SSRIs with serotonergic psychedelics?

Safety restatement: do not combine SSRIs with MAOIs including RIMAs such as harmala alkaloids found in ayahuasca or Syrian rue.

Hmmm... isn't THH an SSRI? So what's the deal with combining it with harmine/harmaline and using it to potentiate psychedelics like psilocybin and mescaline? Is there some risk here?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Patients on SSRIs shouldn't bother taking psychedelics because they won't work - but has anyone ever examined whether the neuroplasticity effects still occur when co-administering SSRIs with serotonergic psychedelics?

Safety restatement: do not combine SSRIs with MAOIs including RIMAs such as harmala alkaloids found in ayahuasca or Syrian rue.

Hmmm... isn't THH an SSRI? So what's the deal with combining it with harmine/harmaline and using it to potentiate psychedelics like psilocybin and mescaline? Is there some risk here?

Good question, although I was being over-cautious on the safety statement as a matter of habit. Since THH is only a weak inhibitor of serotonin uptake, this may distinguish it from the synthetic pharmaceutical SSRIs which are designed to be active at lower doses and with higher levels of efficacy. Thereby pharmaceutical SSRIs contribute to a greater buildup of extracellular serotonin than THH does, thus leading to the danger of serotonin syndrome. Although that doesn't answer why THH apparently doesn't cause serotonin syndrome at lower doses, nor why it doesn't appear to adversely affect the efficacy of psychedelics. It clearly has pharmacological properties that differ significantly from the typical pharmaceutical SSRIs, just as harmala alkaloids differ from the irreversible MAOIs.

I'll be honest - I don't know right now, but I'm sure that between us all we can find out.

Also, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that extremely high doses of ayahuasca could cause seerotonin syndrome. And then on the other hand we may, IIRC, see some level of blocking of the 5-HT receptor sites by the harmala alkaloids that perhaps attenuates the ability for elevated levels of serotonin to cause over-activation of the 5-HT receptors.

This seems like an important thing to read up on so it'll be on my list for the coming weeks. Any further pointers gratefully accepted.

Now, off to bed before I spout any further nonsense.

 

[Loveall]

Follow up publication:

"Psychedelics promote neuroplasticity through the activation of intracellular 5-HT2A receptors"

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adf0435

If anyone can get the full text and post it I'd appreciate it. Sci hub does not appear to have it. Thanks.

Edit: General audience/press write-up: Mystery of How Psychedelic Drugs Rapidly Rebuild Neural Connections Solved - The Debrief

 

[_Trip_]

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[Loveall]

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Thanks!

 

[CosmicLion]

So some of those studies mentioned are from David Olson...

His lab is doing a lot of work with psychoplastogen research, they've been studying harmalas, ibogaine, LSD, psilocybin and DMT...

They have some interesting info on their site too:

About Us

The Olson Research Group employs a multidisciplinary approach to understand how small molecules affect the brain's ability to encode, store, and retrieve information.

www.olsonlab.org

Also, they absolutely don't think psychedelics are "bad"... They are very much pro-psychedelic... But part of the new research (and funding) is in psychoplastogens and creating new medications



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