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Pure DMT Fumarate from freebase DMT

Migrated topic.
SWIM tried to basify some of the fumarate in water with NaOH, but couldn't get it to crystallize; it got quite cloudy and red droplets (jungle spice?) formed. SWIM's got a bunch of sodium carbonate now, so maybe he'll try that next time. For now SWIM's pulling to freeze-precip with naphtha; the red droplets seemed to disappear, so that's a little curious. SWIM'll save the aqueous solution for when he gets some toulene or maybe DCM.
 
Hi 69Ron. ILPT just contacted me and asking if any of those acids would be useful INSTEAD OF FUMARIC acid. ILPT can get lab.quality: tartaric, salicylic, DL-Asparatic, Benzoic, boric, ascorbic, ethanedioic acids and ver pure E.D.T.A. What other S.W.I.M.s think?????
 
SWIM's got some info to share:

through FASA method
-Pulls with toulene yield white fluffy crystals, with tan specks of jungle-spice rock found in trace amounts.
-Further pulls result in tan rocks of jungle-spice with white spice embedded, harder and more solid than those resulting from xylene.

Remember if you have salt residue leftover on the sides of your salting glass, scraping tool, or anywhere else, wash it completely with a small amount of water, and save the water. Keep reusing the same water when needed. Eventually you can easily freebase the content of the aqueous solution to get a surprisingly decent yield.
 
kemist said:
Hi 69Ron. ILPT just contacted me and asking if any of those acids would be useful INSTEAD OF FUMARIC acid. ILPT can get lab.quality: tartaric, salicylic, DL-Asparatic, Benzoic, boric, ascorbic, ethanedioic acids and ver pure E.D.T.A. What other S.W.I.M.s think?????
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None of those acids you mentioned have been tested as far as I know.
 
69ron said:
Thanks for the solubility tests! THAT'S VERY USEFUL DATA!

I'm so glad someone has the time to do these tests!

Both DMT freebase and DMT citrate are soluble in acetone. But those tests show that DMT fumarate is insoluble in acetone. That’s quite interesting. That fact could be helpful in creating an acetone based tech that doesn’t require a non-polar solvent. Think about it. SWIM’s acetone citrate precipitation tech for Yopo could be adapted to Mimosa by substituting citric acid with fumaric acid. Hmmmm…very interesting.

I AM EXCITED!!!!!8)

Imagine this tech based on that info. Purely theoretical:

1 - Mix powder mimosa with 1 part calcium hydroxide.
2 - Add enough water to make it wet and mix. It should be like wet clay. (This freebases the DMT)
3 - Spread it out and let it dry completely.
4 - Dissolve it in acetone and filter out the solids. (Freebase DMT and other junk dissolves into the acetone)
5 - Saturate the acetone with fumaric acid.
6 - DMT fumarate precipitates out of the acetone. (Some other junk might also precipitate out the first time)
7 - Mix DMT fumarate with 1 part calcium hydroxide.
8 - Add enough water to make it wet and mix. (Freebase the DMT again)
9 - Spread it out and let it dry completely.
10- Dissolve it in acetone and filter out the solids. (At this point only alkaloids like DMT should dissolve)
11- Evaporate the acetone to get nearly pure freebase DMT.

Very interesting…SWIM will try that when he has some free time! I AM VERY EXCITED!!!!!8)

That looks very possible if those test results are accurate. That above tech works for bufotenine if citric acid is used. But to my knowledge, no one has tried that tech with fumaric acid.


As for dosage, 125 mg is a typical dose for snorting DMT. It should be very fine powder, not chunks.

What was the body load like that you experienced?
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has anybody tried this yet?
 
PLEASE NOTE!!!

This concerned those who wish to use the FASA (fumaric-acid saturated acetone) method for salting out the alkaloids from the non-polar solvents.

SWIM's FOAF just observed that adding FASA into pure clean Bartoline Premium Low Odour White Spirit causes precipitation of the fumaric acid. This contrasted his observations where adding FASA into pure clean xylene did not cause any precipitations. FASA works perfectly for salting out alkaloids that have been pulled from basic solutions using xylene, but in the case where Bartoline Premium Low Odour White Spirit it gives false positives. That is, precipitations observed by adding FASA into Bartoline Premium Low Odour White Spirit can include pure fumaric acid as well as the salted fumarate alkaloids.

If the FASA method is to anyone's concern he/she should test first whether his/her choice of non-polar solvent causes precipitation of fumaric acid when FASA is added per se.

Cheers,
SWIM's FOAF
 
amor_fati said:
SWIM's got some info to share:

through FASA method
-Pulls with toulene yield white fluffy crystals, with tan specks of jungle-spice rock found in trace amounts.
-Further pulls result in tan rocks of jungle-spice with white spice embedded, harder and more solid than those resulting from xylene.

Remember if you have salt residue leftover on the sides of your salting glass, scraping tool, or anywhere else, wash it completely with a small amount of water, and save the water. Keep reusing the same water when needed. Eventually you can easily freebase the content of the aqueous solution to get a surprisingly decent yield.
Click to expand...

SWIM's FOAF just observed the exact same thing when xylene is used (as the primary and only NP solvent)! The first pull gives almost exclusively nice white fluffy white fumarate crystals, whereas the jungle spice ones start appearing in the subsequent pulls!

It is so aesthetically pleasant to see decent results so fast using this method. Plus, one knows exactly when to stop pulling but most importantly the nasty and lengthy xylene evaporation belongs to the past!
 
It would be really great if one could try it with other solvents as well. SWIM tried with a naphtha brand (Bartoline Premium Low Odour White Spirit) that is composed of primarily larger hydrocarbons at the C10 range and observed that addition of FASA in the solvent itself causes precipitation of the fumaric acid.

Of course, should any spice be present in the above mentioned naphtha brand it would convert to the fumarate salt and precipitate along with the fumaric acid. In which case, one would have to

1) either wash with excess acetone to get rid of the fumaric acid, if one requires pure fumarate salts, or

2) proceed to freebasing the fumarate salts (that are also contaminated with fumaric acid) using A/B or more easily by going the watery paste way with calcium hydroxide followed by acetone washings (similar to bufotenine procedure)

The FASA way does reduce waiting times for evaporation significantly. SWIM's friend of a friend thinks everybody should be trying the FASA method; It requires no evaporation of solvent, one knows exactly when to stop pulling, there is no need for recrystallisation and it instantly gets rid of all the lipid impurities. SWIM could extract diplopterys cabrerana in A/B without defatting at all, this was wonderful!

This success of this method relies on two premises:

1) that the actives in a given specimen are alkaloids and they can thus be salted to fumarates. So, inactive lipids and impurities of non-alkaloidal nature will be left behind.

2) that the salted alkaloids are insoluble in non-polar solvents as well as acetone.

Of course, this means that if there are any active substances of non-alkaloidal nature in the starting material they will be lost during this process.

SWIM's FOAF is exploring the FASA method for other alkaloids as well. This would make extraction of almost every alkaloid a piece of cake. Mescaline for instance; mescaline chloride and mescaline sulphate are insoluble in acetone, it is very likely that mescaline fumarate will exhibit the exact same properties.
 
69ron said:
rellik said:
what color is the fumaric salt? thanks :)

edit: too bad MEK is a list 2 chem, are there any alternatives?
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SWIM says, DMT fumarate forms completely colorless, long clear pointed crystals in MEK that look like the kryptonite crystals seen in the superman movies. They will be lightly yellow or amber colored if impure.

As an alternative to MEK, 99% isopropyl alcohol can be used to remove the excess fumaric acid. Fumaric acid is soluble in 95% isopropyl alcohol and below, but it’s insoluble in 99% isopropyl alcohol. Probably 99% ethanol could be used but SWIM never tested that. SWIM likes MEK for removing the excess fumaric acid because it evaporates faster than isopropyl alcohol. Plus it’s easier to get (local stores have it over the counter without need for ID) and much cheaper in SWIM’s area.
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I thought it was DMT fumarate that was nearly insoluble in ISO? I just added pure fumaric acid to anhydrous ISO and it dissolved lots pretty quickly. I would think a good way around using a ketone is making some anhydrous ISO, dissolving 1000mg DMT freebase to some, dissolving 315mg fumaric acid to some more (i am sure strait fumaric acid is soluble in pure iso) and mix the 2, DMT fumarate should precip out and any excess of either should be in the iso still, filter off iso and that would leave pure DMT fumarate. only drawback i see is that DMT fumarate is soluble at 1mg/ml so you would lose a litte, but not much. does this logic sound good to you?
 
SWIM has had great luck extracting from chaliponga and then adding the FASA...this is from xylene...he got a pinkish crystalline powder that is active sublingually....he has yet to test it much farther(thanks to bufotenine experiments taking up all his time)
 
69ron said:
Pure DMT fumarate from freebase DMT.

To make pure DMT fumarate from freebase DMT the following procedure from SWIM’s notes works great

1) Dissolve 100 mg of DMT in 4 ml of warm 91% isopropyl alcohol (about 40 C). NOTE: substitutes that also work include 95% ethanol, 95 % isopropyl alcohol. Hoever 99% does not work. There must be at least 5% water or the fumaric acid in the next step fails to dissolve completely.
2) Add 100 mg of fumaric acid. NOTE: this is excess fumaric acid. We actually only need 31 mg in theory, but we use 100 just to make sure.
3) Evaporate the solution at no hotter than 140 C (DMT fumarate melts at 152 C). NOTE: putting the liquid in a 10 ml beaker on a hotplate set to 100 C with a fan blowing over the liquid works great.
4) When completely dry, we add 10 ml of methyl ethyl ketone and mix. The excess fumaric acid quickly falls to the bottom of the methyl ethyl ketone because it’s insoluble in it.
5) Filter the methyl ethyl ketone to remove the excess fumaric acid.
6) Evaporate the solution at no hotter than 140 C (DMT fumarate melts at 152 C) to give pure DMT fumarate crystals.

Freebase DMT has a molecular weight of about 188.269. Fumaric acid has a molecular weight of 116.07. DMT fumarate has a molecular weight of about 492.608 (DMT + fumaric acid + DMT). It is 76% as potent as freebase DMT, so you’ll need 31% more to achieve the same effectiveness. This means a 20 mg dose of freebase DMT is equivalent to 26 mg of DMT fumarate (requiring 31% more).

DMT fumarate is more water soluble, more stable, has a longer shelf life, is much easier to crystallize, has a higher melting point, is less waxy, and easier to form into a powder than freebase DMT. Because of these characteristics DMT fumarate is much preferred over freebase DMT. Freebase DMT has no benefits other than the fact that it is easily vaporized.
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EDIT: DON'T TRY THIS TECH!!! There's an error in it. SWIM is looking into this and will fix this tech. Until then DON'T TRY IT. It doesn't work as stated. SWIM thinks maybe the acid was MISLABELED IN HIS LAB.
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Could someone explain this in a more specific way?

Also it says there is a mistake in the instructions. Does anyone know the correct way to do this?

It says to filter it... would a coffee filter work? It's not safe to use a regular stove right?

Is AR fumaric acid, fumaric acid? I don't know how to add a pic.
 
How could it be more specific?

You could try following the instructions, even if - as stated - it doesn't work. Then we'll know for sure whether it works or not.

Filtering 10mL of solution with a coffee filter would be highly inefficient.


And AR = analytical reagent, a high purity grade.
 
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