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Pure Passion Flower Extraction "Passiflora Incarnata"

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This tek does not work...

150 grams passion flower boiled in 600 ml 5% acidified water for thirty minutes, then strained and collected
This was repeated another three times.
Resulting pulls were then reduced to about a 750 ml
A saturated solution of sodium carbonate was then added. Tea went black as it started to basify, but once it reached pH 11 it was back to a light tea color again.
Basified solution was then put into the fridge. It's now been 8 hours and no precipitation. The same amount of rue or caapi would have pulled a couple grams worth of harmalas in the end.
I don't want to stamp this tek out because I did not follow it to the letter, but I would say you would have to use a LOT of starting material, which in the end is simply not worth it.
 
So this tek does not work? I started performing it before reading these last posts. Any chance it can be saved? Maybe make a concentrated tea or is there a link to one that does?
 
It's up to you. The tek mentions that the yields are good, and that just wasn't the case. There was literally nothing on my coffee filter from pulling a 150 gram batch. That same amount of for rue or caapi, and I would have had to use multiple filters it would have been so chunky with harmalas.
If you have your pulls, and you haven't done anything else to them, I would say to evap down for a passion flower tea. I love passion flower tea. Tastes bad, but it does a great job at relaxing and helping me go to sleep.
 
Is the reduction of harmaline to THH via amyl alcohol and Sodium a viable one? Perhaps a sodium doner would be better then trying to find elemental sodium. The search continues for the elusive THH...
 
Did these other forums contain stoichiometry for the reaction?
I guess processing harmaloids from a manske over and over then selectively precipitating via a decent PH meter several times, should give a decent enough haramaline to start with right?
 
No clue, I've never seen a proper analysis done on the finished product. It'd be wise to do some chromatography if purity is the main concern. Harmine and harmaline can also be separated by fractional crystallization with benzene and acetone iirc. I wonder if toluene could substitute for benzene? It's doubtful but it may be worth some experimentation. One can also do some voodoo with the hydroiodide salts of these compounds, though it's pretty impractical and not cost effective but is also in the literature.

The stoichiometry for this is kind of irrelevant. As you can see in the experimental. Obviously too much Zn will be undesirable if your trying to avoid the Zn(OH) ppt. Obviously too dilute of an HCl solution will slow the reaction.

Here is what the article states(copied by hand):
To a solution of 10 grams of harmadine in 10% aq. HCl Zn dust was gradually added with occasional shaking and the reaction mixture was heated on a water bath till the yellow color dissipated. Unreacted Zn was filtered off and the colorless filtrate amoniated with the prior addition of amonium chloride to prevent Zn(OH) precipitate. The white crystalline mass which separated out was immediately shaken out with Ethyl Acetate. On working up the ethyl acetate layer tetrahydroharmine was obtained as colorless crystallizate in 80% yield. On recrystallization with methanol-benzene it formed slender needles which melted at 199*C.
Click to expand...

80% yield is pretty good for a nearly OTC procedure. You probably don't have to use Ethyl Acetate, I'm sure toluene would suffice. Though EtOAc is a really nice solvent to have around and can be had by distilling then drying(CaCl2 for ethanol removal and MgSO4 for water removal) certain types of nail polish remover. Ammonium chloride can easily be had by reacting HCl with NH3(obviously), do this as any other acid base titration.
 
Just wanted to post as Ive seen some that some dont believenthis tek works. From 3/4 of a pint by volume of dry plant material I first obtained an unknown amount of yellow crystals after ammonia precipitation going with a slight variation of this tek. I re-acidified, filtered, and based with sodium carbonate and after several washes with clean water what I have is identical by sight to what Ive gotten from a rue extraction in the past.

Since it worked so well I am going for another, this time with .27 lb.

Any clue on dosage with this stuff since its quite possibly a mix of uncommon harmalas? Actually I have no clue what it is yet but would like to bioassay tonight intranasally. Any suggestions?
 
I have no clue what a dose of this would be, but if your bioassay goes well I'd love to hear about it.

P. incarnata is all over the place where I live, and having a local source of harmalas would be nice.

Also, P. incarnata would be a nice sustainable source of harmalas for those willing to grow their own. :thumb_up:
 
ntwhtyouknw said:
Just wanted to post as Ive seen some that some dont believenthis tek works. From 3/4 of a pint by volume of dry plant material I first obtained an unknown amount of yellow crystals after ammonia precipitation going with a slight variation of this tek. I re-acidified, filtered, and based with sodium carbonate and after several washes with clean water what I have is identical by sight to what Ive gotten from a rue extraction in the past.

Since it worked so well I am going for another, this time with .27 lb.

Any clue on dosage with this stuff since its quite possibly a mix of uncommon harmalas? Actually I have no clue what it is yet but would like to bioassay tonight intranasally. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

here are some refferences from research on Passiflora Incarnata from the Passiflora of interest thread
 
I just did the standard Tao of Rue tek on 1kg-ish (wish I had weighed properly) of crushed P. Incarnata leaves. and was left with around 0.4% (4 grams) of tan coloured freebase harmalas - I did a side by side extraction with 150grams of rue. the rue yielded roughly 5% (7.5 grams) very clean FB's

I had no issues apart from mansking the Passiflora at first, but eventually tiny crystals appeared after re-basing and re-mansking twice. Once I based with sodium carb I just repeated masking and basing 7 times or so until the precipitated FB's looked light enough, they are still a little darker than the rue ones, but I assume it's tannins, plant stuff.

I am worried about other chemicals in the Passiflora hence my OCD manske. I have yet to try them, but the rue ones are :) :) and side by side I'd have a hard time them apart, they even smell similar and taste the same (bitter as all hell)

I might try get some to someone who can test what's in em, just to be safe.
Anyone know if the repeated manske would have cleaned out any bad things?

Also, filtering Passiflora is soooooooo much easier than rue...

Peace
 
I would follow the herbalists method, soak ground dry material in dilute acidifiedf ethanol for a week or so then filter solids , evap off to leave a resin. Could purify further by following the whiterasta tek but this would probably remove active flavanoids.
I recently bought an ethanol tincture from the local health shop, its a ruby red I will evap off the ethanol sometime soon and post back what it results in.
 
For what it's worth I've done this tek successfully with around 1 oz of p Incarnata. When I basified a very large amount of precipitate fell out.

Note that I then re dissolved the alkaloids in acidified water and attempted to salt them out. This did not work. They're is something in Passion flower which seems to inhibit salting out. And also the other compounds such as flavonoids may not salt out anyway. Idk.

I'm attempting this again now and will keep you updated.
 
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