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Q21 tek 2 questions

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hexan

hexan

The Great Gatsby
Evening,

Can anyone tell me or direct me to a more technically detailed version of A/B Q21 tek 2.

I was disappointed with the tek after following it meticulously.

I would like to know more about PH at each stage, what readings to expect, how to measure etc.

The Tek was good but i would like to help make it better. There were some areas where I ran into hardship.

I have read the wiki and spend many hours searching the forum.

I would really appreciate expert advise.

When I added my Naphtha it all disappeared. Is that because my PH was wrong before I added or because I simply didnt add enough.

Is it possible my Vinegar was shit quality, not acidic enough blah blah.

Please help, H wants to understand and has exhausted the site and wiki.

H

ps. Is there a better tek for me to be using for my second attempt at MHRB extrac? opinions pleeasse. Speak to me comrades : )
 
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A question:

How much naptha was added per volume of basic water?

A few tips:

SWIM prefers the Vovin tek with freeze precipitation minus washing the NPS :?

pH of around 4 or 5 is good for the acidic extraction of MHRB

At ph 10.68 99% of spice will be freebased, so this is a good minimum pH to aim for in the free basing step. At pH 11.68 99.9% will be freebased, so no need to go any higher.

NaCl can be added to the aqueous phase to help "push" the naptha out of the water (about 100g/l), and "push" the spice out of the water and into the naptha.
 
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hexan said:
Evening,


When I added my Naphtha it all disappeared. Is that because my PH was wrong before I added or because I simply didnt add enough.
Click to expand...

I find q21q21's tek 2 to be very simple, probably easier then other teks but im not sure. Was you mhrb/vinegar/water/lime mix dry? Ive had my natpha disappear upon pull, but it was because my consistency was off. Im guessing this may have happened to you.
 
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hexan said:
Evening,

Can anyone tell me or direct me to a more technically detailed version of A/B Q21 tek 2.

I was disappointed with the tek after following it meticulously.

I would like to know more about PH at each stage, what readings to expect, how to measure etc.

The Tek was good but i would like to help make it better. There were some areas where I ran into hardship.

I have read the wiki and spend many hours searching the forum.

I would really appreciate expert advise.

When I added my Naphtha it all disappeared. Is that because my PH was wrong before I added or because I simply didnt add enough.

Is it possible my Vinegar was shit quality, not acidic enough blah blah.

Please help, H wants to understand and has exhausted the site and wiki.

H

ps. Is there a better tek for me to be using for my second attempt at MHRB extrac? opinions pleeasse. Speak to me comrades : )
Click to expand...

Sorry you had troubles. If you can specify the issues that you ran into I'd gladly edit SWIM's tek to try to prevent future confusion.

I suppose I could add that the PH will be 11.5-12.5 when the lime is added and that as long as regular white vinegar is used the PH will be plenty low for that step, It would likely be 2-4 in that step.
There is no need to use PH strips or PH meters unless you are unsure of your materials and need to test them. I've said to every person asking for help with the tek.
"If your materials are good then your end product will be. It's just as simple as it sounds just follow the steps and it will work out fine."

This is me speaking from the confidence of well over 100 edits of the tek prompted by dozens of questions and 6 or 7 complete overhauls of the format and wording to make it both comprehensive and simple.

Of course critique and advice is always welcome, this tek is by no means "final"

*sits and listens open-mindedly*
 
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I have a question.

SWIM followed your tek and I think he used a little bit too much Naptha for pulling, at least more than suggested in the tek. Prior to that everything went fine(vinegar, lime, consistensy), Naptha is totally clear and has distinct spice smell. SWIM is sure its saturated well.

SWIM's question is whenever its worth reducing Naptha prior to either freeze precipitating or making fumarate by adding FASW. Question seems redundant(especially for freeze precip) however he pulled this at cold temperature and is afraid of heating this up.

thx


Edit: he used powdered MHRB then vinegar then lime.
 
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tribo said:
A question:

How much naptha was added per volume of basic water?

A few tips:

SWIM prefers the Vovin tek with freeze precipitation minus washing the NPS :?

pH of around 4 or 5 is good for the acidic extraction of MHRB

At ph 10.68 99% of spice will be freebased, so this is a good minimum pH to aim for in the free basing step. At pH 11.68 99.9% will be freebased, so no need to go any higher.

NaCl can be added to the aqueous phase to help "push" the naptha out of the water (about 100g/l), and "push" the spice out of the water and into the naptha.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tribo, my first 100g MHRB used 100ml hot water 100ml Naphtha. I stirred with a big metal spoon and all Naphtha completely gone. almost nothing to pour.
 
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Perceptual Reality said:
hexan said:
Evening,


When I added my Naphtha it all disappeared. Is that because my PH was wrong before I added or because I simply didnt add enough.
Click to expand...

I find q21q21's tek 2 to be very simple, probably easier then other teks but im not sure. Was you mhrb/vinegar/water/lime mix dry? Ive had my natpha disappear upon pull, but it was because my consistency was off. Im guessing this may have happened to you.
Click to expand...


I followed the Q21 tek 2 as meticulously as possible. I made sure the mix would sustain a little "well hole" in the middle before adding Naphtha but after 5-10 mins mixing my extraction didnt seem to be following the tek any more.

I added more Naphtha and ultimately did 4 pulls.

My yield for 250 G MHRB was only 350mg of white spice. V disappointing.

I may try the tek 1 jim jam next time as I read it produces higher yields and a better spectrum of active spice : )
 
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q21q21 said:
hexan said:
Evening,

Can anyone tell me or direct me to a more technically detailed version of A/B Q21 tek 2.

I was disappointed with the tek after following it meticulously.

I would like to know more about PH at each stage, what readings to expect, how to measure etc.

The Tek was good but i would like to help make it better. There were some areas where I ran into hardship.

I have read the wiki and spend many hours searching the forum.

I would really appreciate expert advise.

When I added my Naphtha it all disappeared. Is that because my PH was wrong before I added or because I simply didnt add enough.

Is it possible my Vinegar was shit quality, not acidic enough blah blah.

Please help, H wants to understand and has exhausted the site and wiki.

H

ps. Is there a better tek for me to be using for my second attempt at MHRB extrac? opinions pleeasse. Speak to me comrades : )
Click to expand...

Sorry you had troubles. If you can specify the issues that you ran into I'd gladly edit SWIM's tek to try to prevent future confusion.

I suppose I could add that the PH will be 11.5-12.5 when the lime is added and that as long as regular white vinegar is used the PH will be plenty low for that step, It would likely be 2-4 in that step.
There is no need to use PH strips or PH meters unless you are unsure of your materials and need to test them. I've said to every person asking for help with the tek.
"If your materials are good then your end product will be. It's just as simple as it sounds just follow the steps and it will work out fine."

This is me speaking from the confidence of well over 100 edits of the tek prompted by dozens of questions and 6 or 7 complete overhauls of the format and wording to make it both comprehensive and simple.

Of course critique and advice is always welcome, this tek is by no means "final"

*sits and listens open-mindedly*
Click to expand...

Dear Q21,

Good to see your post. I think these are the factors responsible for my experience:

1. I used a narrow, deep pyrex glass jar to mix my MHRB with vinegar : I think this made the consistency details in the tek 2 difficult to equate. Perhaps my mix was simply too dry.

2. The vinegar I used was branded CONDIMENT and the ingredients listed "water, Acetic acid" but no % was listed, maybe not acidified enough.

3. I have a feeling that although my first attempt ran into a few hiccups I yielded everything the MHRB had to give. I think perhaps it was simply a low yield batch. A few bits of the bark was very hard outer bark. Do you concur that it could simply have been a poor batch? As it was my first tek I simply dont know.

I used high purity Kalkwasser for my lime. All pyrex glassware and digital scales.

Anyway, YES, some PH notes for each stage wouldn't hurt although most people wont use them or need them.

The tek is excellent as what I did yield was mind blowing white Xtals. I was soo happy the night we sampled our hard work because the whole project was "in-house" and I could be confident it was legitimate plant based spice : )

respect
 
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after 4-5 pulls I tried 1 more.

The result yielded what looked like little lumps of whitish deposits.

I poured off Naphtha and dried container. All the oily blobs melted but I left them for many hours then scraped hard with a blade.

The blade scooped up little piles of very waxy light brown flakes that stink of spice.

I chopped it down finely and let any moisture dry out totally.

Is this stuff safe? Is it oxides or weak spice?

Stinks!

H
 
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hexan said:
after 4-5 pulls I tried 1 more.

The result yielded what looked like little lumps of whitish deposits.

I poured off Naphtha and dried container. All the oily blobs melted but I left them for many hours then scraped hard with a blade.

The blade scooped up little piles of very waxy light brown flakes that stink of spice.

I chopped it down finely and let any moisture dry out totally.

Is this stuff safe? Is it oxides or weak spice?

Stinks!

H
Click to expand...

So when SWIM did he very first tests using lime he did not use vinegar and he was very disappointing when the first 5-6 pulls over about 30 hours yielded less than .1%. After about the 2 day mark with mixing several times a day then another pull was done and shockingly the naptha precipitated a large amount after sitting in the freezer. The spice was yellowish on the first big-pull and then it was brownish yellow on the second and third. The final yield was .55% in 3 days compared to .9% in ~6 hours with the vinegar step.

Pretty sure that the vinegar you used did pretty much nothing and what was done was a lime STB.
I'll edit the note that is at the bottom of the vinegar step to be more clear later.

Edit:
At the end of the recrystallization step this note was added:

"Note 1: If the first 2 pulls don't cloud or precipitate crystals after 8-12 hours then something in the extraction did not work correctly. These are 5 things to question in order of likeliness:
1: Was your lime Calcium Hydroxide (Ca(OH)2)? Was enough added?
2: Was the mush mixed thoroughly enough? Was it too dry? If so it is possible that after the water it added it may take 36-48 hours for the naptha to pull a significant amount of DMT.
3: Is your Naptha suitable for use in freezer-precipitating DMT? (less likely) Did you use way too much and need to evaporate a portion?
4: Was the vinegar added regular white vinegar suitable for this extraction? If not this as well will delay the process and take 36-48 hours for a significant pull of DMT
5: Is your MHRB actually MHRB which contains DMT?"

The order of them was because SWIM has heard of the first one happening almost a dozen times.
The second one SWIM has heard a few times with people worried about it being too wet and not adding enough water.
The third one is important because there are so many varieties of naptha outside of the US that may or may not work.
The fourth, yours is the only instance I've seen of it but it can definitely effect the process.
The fifth I've never seen with MHRB. It is always possible but with the reviews on dozens of sources it is very unlikely.
 
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Just wanted to say that I have added some changes to the tek. They are a little draft-y right now but I really appreciate you making this thread.
It is really hard, near not impossible to think while reading the tek like someone who didn't write the tek and has done it many many times.

That current note I am putting at the bottom and I well elaborate more on the solutions and consequence as well as direct in a few places it.
Finally I added a note at the tope of the materials list

IMPORTANT:
The lime, the vinegar, the solvent and MHRB MUST MUST MUST be correct and suitable for use in this tek. The vast majority or problems or complete failures in this tek and others as well are simply due to questionable or incorrect materials. This tek is very easy and I tell people who ask about it "It is just as easy as it sound. If your material are good then your end product will be VERY GOOD"

Also my roomie is doing the tek for the second time and although he HATES that I do it I won't give him any answers that are not in the tek so I added a couple clarifications and 1 big thing on the consistency that I was waiting for info on one (small and not so important) aspect about it before putting it. But when he added a little bit too much water and got really worried and the note was missing I felt the need to add it.

Then he poured his first pull of 200ml limonene down the sink by accident. Hes pissed now and I'll have to wait for a bit till hes ready to finish it to get some more critiques.

Thanks!
 
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Just to chime in on materials I have used the following with excellent results:

Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime
Standard 5% Vinegar, grocery store stuff (Whitehouse brand I think)
Ronsonol naptha (did an evap test on cd no residue left after evap)
I use distilled water as well just for the hell of it.

I would also note I've never been very precise with my measurements. I just tried to make each step look like Q21's pics at first. Since then I just kinda remembered what looks the best. I always get fluffy white crystals with a strong DMT smell. The process always takes me around 36 hours with 3-4 pulls.

Good luck in the future.
 
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