Q21Q21 Tek1 Post-Lime Consistency

[Acharya]

SWIM doesn't know what the ideal consistency is for
Q21Q21 Tek1 after adding the LIME
if his intention is wait a few days, maybe 1 week BEFORE first extraction.

Is it ok to wait this long for the LIME to work without doing any pulls for a few days - a week?

What's the ideal consistency for this? Considering solvent is not plentiful.

Is the ideal consistency for this wait a thick pea soup or a crumbly mixture like in this pic:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/resource.ashx?a=30520&nc=1

SWIM thanks you in advance.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

A dough-like consistency works quite well ans has advantages over crumbly or more liquid mixtures.

Waiting for a week will also help, especially if you can keep your dough in a tightly sealed container with minimal airspace.



No need to swim here

 

[Acharya]

A dough-like consistency works quite well ans has advantages over crumbly or more liquid mixtures.

Waiting for a week will also help, especially if you can keep your dough in a tightly sealed container with minimal airspace.



No need to swim here

Yeah, but... you know SWIM, he has to do what he has to do.

He left the lid off for airflow, because his consistency is like tomato soup. It's too runny.
Is that bad?

Must he slow dry the composition in the oven at low temps FIRST (as soon as possible?) and then seal the lid and let it be for a week?

Or - as he was thinking - leave the lid off for the water to evaporate in that week and - if need may be - dry it in the oven after a week, before extraction. What do you think? He's like a total noob, but did solid research. This forum is invaluable.

Thanks! Much Love!


EDIT: 60g MHRB, 60ml vinegar 5%, 50g lime, mistakenly much more than 60ml water - maybe 100 - 120

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Add more lime. Otherwise trying to air dry means the lime absorbs CO2 from the atmosphere, decreasing efficacy.

Or just get on with adding the NP solvent anyhow. Trouble is, fine lime particulates may cause emulsion problems. That's why I'd prefer a dough-like texture. Dry lime powder reintroduces the particulates difficulty.

More ridiculous variants would include removing water under vacuum or purging off of water with pure, hot argon or nitrogen. As if...

 

[Acharya]

Add more lime. Otherwise trying to air dry means the lime absorbs CO2 from the atmosphere, decreasing efficacy.

Or just get on with adding the NP solvent anyhow. Trouble is, fine lime particulates may cause emulsion problems. That's why I'd prefer a dough-like texture. Dry lime powder reintroduces the particulates difficulty.

More ridiculous variants would include removing water under vacuum or purging off of water with pure, hot argon or nitrogen. As if...

So forget about the oven? Q21 mentioned that as a fix to evaporate water in consistency that's too runny? Wouldn't that work? Will that also decrease efficacy?

Wouldn't adding more lime also decrease efficacy considering lime absorbs solvent?

Doesn't know enough chemistry to know if oven drying will hurt anything..

Thank you for the feedback!

 

[Levanah]

Hey there,

there is absolutely no problem if the consistency of the bark-lime mush (ratio 1:1 is perfect) is too runny temporarily. Maybe it's even nice. Air drying and time is your friend and natural key here and creates the perfect balance.

I did my first q21q21-limonene extraction in a glass jar but now went over to do everything in a stainless steel pot. Much easier to mix the mush and pull efficiently.

I think that the optimal mixing process and lime-mush reaction determinates the final yield.

I don't close the stainless steel pot and within one day my base-mush mixture goes from runny to dough-dry-crumbly. Then I add a tiny bit of boiling water to make it runny again and mix it further and air dry it again to dough-dry-crumbly consistency within one or two days. Continuing this process for 7 days gives me a high yield of 1,3% with just two pulls and the rest 0,2-0,3% with a third pull.

You could also wait 14 days or more to do the first pull. In my first extractions I pulled after 2-3 days, got smaller yields and needed more pulls to get all of the good medicine.

Just pull from the dough-dry-crumbly consistency in the end and try to "feel" when its ready (my ready-to-pull-stuff looks like this @ attached picture)

 

[Acharya]

Hey there,

there is absolutely no problem if the consistency of the bark-lime mush (ratio 1:1 is perfect) is too runny temporarily. Maybe it's even nice. Air drying and time is your friend and natural key here and creates the perfect balance.

I did my first q21q21-limonene extraction in a glass jar but now went over to do everything in a stainless steel pot. Much easier to mix the mush and pull efficiently.

I think that the optimal mixing process and lime-mush reaction determinates the final yield.

I don't close the stainless steel pot and within one day my base-mush mixture goes from runny to dough-dry-crumbly. Then I add a tiny bit of boiling water to make it runny again and mix it further and air dry it again to dough-dry-crumbly consistency within one or two days. Continuing this process for 7 days gives me a high yield of 1,3% with just two pulls and the rest 0,2-0,3% with a third pull.

You could also wait 14 days or more to do the first pull. In my first extractions I pulled after 2-3 days, got smaller yields and needed more pulls to get all of the good medicine.

Just pull from the dough-dry-crumbly consistency in the end and try to "feel" when its ready (my ready-to-pull-stuff looks like this @ attached picture)

Thank you for this very insightful post.
Great to hear one could wait even two weeks, as the solvent isn't yet present.
SWIM eventually used the oven and got it to wet-rabbit-poop consistency.

He thinks this consistency is ideal considering that solvent-mixing technique is crucial.
If you have balls from tiny rice sized to pea sized to medium grape sized - you have a large surface area for the solvent to coat, then the solvent will coat everything and not mix within causing homogenization - which I hear is a bad thing for solvent to mix within the composition.


downwardsfromzero said that "trying to air dry means the lime absorbs CO2 from the atmosphere, decreasing efficacy." Don't know if that's true - but used low heat oven to get wet rabbit poo - a consistency very similar to your pictures - crumbly but more wet.

So the basic idea is take care of consistency and have an optimal mixing process. Seems like swim's re-creating the 7 days-process you were describing. Thanks a lot, Levanah! :thumb_up:

 

[Levanah]

Great to hear one could wait even two weeks, as the solvent isn't yet present.

Even 2 month or 2 years Are you using limonene or naphtha?

My last pulls (pull 3+4) from my q21q21-naptha extraction were done about 5 months later and still yielded white crystals.

There are some people who are interested in super beautiful and white show-of-spice without any traces of plant oils. I guess that's a main reason why they base just for short periods like 3 hours or 1 day. Stronger (or longer) basing can lead to brown colored spice (which is not bad), but in case of q2121 tek that's rather not the case because the tek doesn't use such a strong base like NaOH, so the end product is mostly fluffy-white anyway, at least in my limited experience.

If you have balls from tiny rice sized to pea sized to medium grape sized - you have a large surface area for the solvent to coat, then the solvent will coat everything and not mix within causing homogenization - which I hear is a bad thing for solvent to mix within the composition.

Sounds nice. Neither naptha nor limonene will cause homogenization (I just recently observed homogenization with sunflower oil in a last pull). If I add 500ml limonene to 250mg MHRB it looks like as if everything is absorbed. So I add another 100-150ml limonene. To remove all of the limonene I hold the stainless steel pot at an angle, move the bark with a spoon in the upper angle and retrieve the limonene (about 500ml) in the lower angel with a glass syringe.

I let the limonene and naptha pulls sit for 3-12 hours (with closed lid this time). Initially in a warm water bath.

Good luck with everything :thumb_up:

 

[Acharya]

Even 2 month or 2 years Are you using limonene or naphtha?

Really? That's interesting. Using Xylene. Had to return some cheaper stuff he got because it had acetone and butanol in it, which are not good - something to do with water solubility I read. And Naphtha's tricky to get a hold of.

My last pulls (pull 3+4) from my q21q21-naptha extraction were done about 5 months later and still yielded white crystals.

He won't get white crystals with what he's doing (he liked what he read about jimjam and different oils and compounds in whole jimjam)- He's not interested in white bride gowns.
He doesn't really know what to do next... with the evaporated vinegar juice - which would be a concentrate maybe 90% dmt or something. Not sure what next for making enhanced leaf.

There are some people who are interested in super beautiful and white show-of-spice without any traces of plant oils. I guess that's a main reason why they base just for short periods like 3 hours or 1 day. Stronger (or longer) basing can lead to brown colored spice (which is not bad), but in case of q2121 tek that's rather not the case because the tek doesn't use such a strong base like NaOH, so the end product is mostly fluffy-white anyway, at least in my limited experience.

Yeah, I know about those people. A great amount of research and availability of resources can lead one to become a jimjam fan.
He's doing Xylene + Vinegar and not sure what's next - how to get the tincture into a leaf maybe + IPA 99% and sodium carbonate or something - but those, again, are very tough to get. So is pure acetone.
I don't remember exactly, I know I read about a simpler method using the tincture of evaporated vinegar spice - but after reading so much on the topic - there's a tornado of information which is hard to settle.

He wants to enhance some leaf so I think he's gonna evaporate the vinegar until there's none left / freebase it with a spoon.

Sounds nice. Neither naptha nor limonene will cause homogenization (I just recently observed homogenization with sunflower oil in a last pull). If I add 500ml limonene to 250mg MHRB it looks like as if everything is absorbed. So I add another 100-150ml limonene. To remove all of the limonene I hold the stainless steel pot at an angle, move the bark with a spoon in the upper angle and retrieve the limonene (about 500ml) in the lower angel with a glass syringe.

I let the limonene and naptha pulls sit for 3-12 hours (with closed lid this time). Initially in a warm water bath.

Good luck with everything :thumb_up:

Yeah, that's what he wants to do using Xylene. So, you're saying it needs to sit in a warm bath before. What comes next is a bit blurry. Enhanced leaf eventually.

But Q21 said "Step 6c (which uses IPA + Sodium Carbonate) should be able to be done without using sodium carbonate but rather just dissolving the gooey-acetates in acetone according to my tests"
That would be awesome, because pure SCarbonate is a pain to get a hold of. So IPA - so he's really thinking of maybe opening that bottle of 96% agricultural ethyl alcohol - but I read that - being only 96% - it will absorb Sodium Carbonate or something else....

Really looking for an easier way to get that tincture into the enhanced leaf. How to do that is all a blur right now. Too much information!


Thank you and good luck to you as well! :thumb_up:

 

[Levanah]

But Q21 said "Step 6c (which uses IPA + Sodium Carbonate) should be able to be done without using sodium carbonate but rather just dissolving the gooey-acetates in acetone according to my tests"
That would be awesome, because pure SCarbonate is a pain to get a hold of. So IPA - so he's really thinking of maybe opening that bottle of 96% agricultural ethyl alcohol - but I read that - being only 96% - it will absorb Sodium Carbonate or something else....

Really looking for an easier way to get that tincture into the enhanced leaf. How to do that is all a blur right now. Too much information!

The easiest and fastest way to enhanced leaf for you would be:

- Evaporate the vinegar in an evap-dish and scrape up the brown-goo dmt-acetate
- Dissolve the DMT-Acetate in IPA, Ethanol, or Acetone (90% would be okay here) - or even dissolve the DMT-Acetate just in water (it works with water here, because dmt-acetate is water soluble while freebase is not und would need IPA) - then mix the water with your leaf and let it evaporate
- water will work, but needs more time to evaporate - but: If you don't have time to evaporate it for some days, an oven at 70°C with a fan will evaporate the water in just some hours. No yield loss as DMT-Acetate is stable at 70°C.

You will have Enhanced Leaf with DMT-Acetate then, which is ready to smoke. It's easy, smokeable and will work this way. However, in your next extractions you may want to convert your DMT-Acetate to Freebase first and decide if your smokeable product may be nicer then.

(Tek: Freebase Conversion with sodium carbonate and water)

Sodium carbonate is easy to get, you don't need to buy it. Just buy baking soda and convert it easy to sodium carbonate in the oven. :thumb_up: