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Question About Fumarate Salts

Migrated topic.
Yeh, a glass jar. Very narrow mouth though...doesn't help much.

SWIM's doing his 8th and final pull. But he'll keep the acid-water since he doesn't yet have a great way to dispose of it. If swim's unhappy with the yield, he might do some more pulls.

E.C.
 
swim found that many many pulls are neccicary to get it all out - there is no majic count - swim pulled 7 times with naptha then 3 times with xylene and so much more is still to come out.
 
Thanks for the advice.

SWIM's coming with a picture real soon. They're starting to really grow all over the sides. Yeah, swim is just going to combine the Xylene in this original jar into his newer one in hopes that they will slowly precipitate and fall to the bottom in the new jar. He'll just wash these crystals out with water in the original jar, base them, and pull with naphtha to get freebase.

jar.jpg


E.C.
 
after they have formed put the xylene in another jar - a more suitable one - more xtals will form over the next 24 hours - pour fresh acetone in the jar and shake it up - that will dislodge all the fumarates pour it into a new jar and after it has settled remove the acetone. that is a wash and a move all in one go. it worked for swim caus he made a simmilar mistake in his jar selection.
 
Xylene moved to a new jar (in combination with the new combined Xylene pulls. The solution is just as cloudy haha.

Bad news is....the crystals don't dislodge :(
 
damn - not sure what to suggest other than putting in fresh acetone and using a bent piece of wire or something to scrape them off - or let them dry - they dry rock hard then trying that.
 
Well....I should probably take a picture, but it's considerably worse now. Yeah swim is just going to add water to dissolve it all, and he'll accept having some dirty crystals, they're not that bad. And if they are, swim can always wash em, recrystalize, etc.

Thanks for the help, btw. Very reassuring comments, this is the first time swim used FASA.

E.C.

Update: Hooray for water, dissolved everything no problem (duh). Too tired for tonight, swim will basify these tomorrow.
Update2: About a half hour upon adding FASA, many many many crystals formed! Going to have to deal with the sticking to the jar junk again.

SWIM would not recommend shaking vigorously to incite faster precipitation. SWIM now has two things to compare, one shaken and one not. The one that was formed very impure crystals very quickly, and the slow one produced pretty white crystals. Kind of curious as to how that happened.

As far as the jar goes, kind of too late now, but swim should have tested using IPA to wash all the crystals off, he could have then just evaporated it.
 
Man swim wishes he could show a picture (can't seem to transfer pics off of his phone at the moment). But there is a nice pretty layer of small crystals sitting at the bottom of his jar. He's going to eventually get the jar's down to a test tube. (He has to go from his 500ml jar, to a 100ml flask, and then finally to the 50ml test tube before he really starts doing washes). After two washes, swim will then just run it through one of his 8um filters, let it dry...use the oven if necessary, and then weigh the results. SWIM's hoping for at least 1.3grams of fumarate, even though he should probably be getting more like 2.6g. SWIM can always do more pulls though, probably still plenty in the water.

So far: FASA = success in swim's book.

E.C.
 
Holy crap! SWIM just put his test tube in the oven for a bit, he then spread his crystals out into a custard bowl. Weighing just that, came out to about 3.84 grams!!! ~3 grams freebase.

It still smells of Xylene and might be a little wet, so swim spread out the crystals and put em in the oven at 135F. This yield is huge! And swim can still do more pulls on his bark! The only reason he stopped was because of fatigue.

E.C.

Update: Damn....after being in the oven for a good 25 min, it lost a gram in weight :(. SWIM will keep it in there for a little longer, and then take it out. Should be around 2.5g, which is a success for swim.

Update 2: So swim took it out of the oven, final weight is 2.7g. It still smells a little of Xylene, but if swim ever ingests the fumarate as is, he will dry it first. He then took about 1.2g of this fumarate, and put it back in his favorite test tube. He then dissolved 2 grams of sodium carbonate into about 15ml of water...dissolved the dmt-fumate in about 25ml of water (can see the tiny xylene bubbles sadly, but not too many at all). As soon as he added the basic solution, the thing turned into the whitest milkiest looking solution swiy has ever seen. Based on a certain document off this forum, swim should hopefully have a good amount of healthy crystals sitting on the bottom ready for filtration. in the morning, or by tomorrow night....might take longer than that actually. Whatever, at this point swim is happy with his yields.
 
Question here:

Suppose one was doing Naphtha pulls in international waters, then decided to switch to xylene. A very small amount of Naphtha will always remain in your container since it is practically impossible to remove all of it.

Do you think having a small amount of naphtha stuck in your xylene would affect SWIY's method?
 
SWIM can't imagine it having any effect. The only relevant difference between naphtha and xylene in this context is that naphtha won't pull any of the oxides or jungle spice. But adding Xylene, which picks up all the alkaloids should null that difference out anyway.

SWIM can't really say. In what way does swiy imagine the procedure being affected?

E.C.
 
Well my cousin's foaf says the question is moot at this point, since his last pull did not yield anything at all and he has lost count of the number of pulls after 8. So he flushed it all down the toilet.... :shock:

But in theory doesn't naphtha precipitate fumaric acid? So having xylene mixed with some naphtha might affect the way the FASA reacted to it... all just theory though... Sorry to have wasted your time with this question.
 
Ah, no worries. Glad that swiy got all the alkaloids out.

Hmmm, good question, whether fumaric acid or dmt-fumarate would ppt instead. SWIM can't answer that, sorry.

E.C.
 
If naphtha does cause fumaric acid to precipitate out of FASA (as it's reported to), it's not likely that much if any product could be retrieved in that way, since it's solubility in the solvent is key to facilitating reaction. One would be better off freeze-preciping to retrieve the product and then working from there.

Also, SWIM's quite certain that xylene or toulene will not pull the n-oxides, and that DCM or acetone are the only known solvents that will.
 
Ethnochemist said:
The only relevant difference between naphtha and xylene in this context is that naphtha won't pull any of the oxides or jungle spice. But adding Xylene, which picks up all the alkaloids should null that difference out anyway.
Click to expand...

I am a bit confused as to what the result of the FASA method actually is. If one were to do several naphtha pulls on the material which would remove most if not all of the DMT freebase which is then turned into a fumarate salt, and then do a few xylene pulls would you come out with a mixture of DMT-Oxide-fumarates and jungle spice-fumarates, after adding FASA?

What if one were to do only xylene straight from the start and then add FASA. Would the result be a conglomerate of all of the alkaloids in a kind of fumarate powder? Or does it precipitate out differently for each alkaloid and thus separating them? It seemed that Plux-'s SWIM had this very thing occur, but was this done with naphtha pulls prior to the xylene?

SWIM is just curious as to the final form(s) to see if this would be a worthwhile method to play with.
 
SWIM's FOAF goes straight to xylene pulling with FASA. No naphtha at all. And yes, in the end one gets a mixture of all the alkaloids that can be pulled with xylene. That is, dmt, its oxide and the elusive jungle spice.

The mixture looks like a yellowish / orangeish wax and it's pure alkaloids. This can be smokes as such, there is no need to get the dmt out, even though one may actually want to do it. This is absolutely down to personal choice however.

One may even argue that smoking all the alkaloids provides a fullier MHRB experience, since one smokes a proportionate mixture of all(?) the alkaloids from the plant. SWIM's FOAF thinks it is slightly different from pure white dmt, but not too different. He likes it more and sees no reason to go the extra mile and get the pure white dmt out of it.
 
So Infundibulum's FOAF smokes this mix? I thought that the fumarate wasn't smokable and was only used for most methods OTHER than smoking...?

By the way, trying to type SWIY's name confuses the hell out of me!
 
Well, he freebases it of course! Freebasing the fumarate salts is pretty easy and straightforward.

As far as the name, yeah, it confuses the hell out of me as well, hahaha. I used to use the nick "Ronue" but I changed it. Some personal weird reasons...
 
Don't worry Phlux, I am reading an dadmiring the pix, as I'm sure other do as well. Just reading with keen interest in preparation for the first FASA extraction...
 
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