Question on xylene pulls

[Nanaki]

A few one-off questions.

1. Does it help to heat the xylene before doing a pull from a STB using MHRB?

2. Does one use as much Xylene as would with Naptha, maybe 100mL at a time for 4-5 pulls?

3. Do you roll the container back and forth like one would with Naptha?

 

[coz42]

SWIM experiments 1:1 ratio of root bark and xylene, heated over a hotpan, which is currently evaporating atm. Also understands that xylene can be recycled with fasa.

 

[Jorkest]

how long does it take for the crystals to precip out of the xylene

 

[Nanaki]

My understanding was that when you add the FASA, the DMT fumarate precipitates immediately.

 

[Infundibulum]

Yes. Even faster however if the xylene is shaken. The salts seem to "stick" together and precipitate as "coagulates" in a matter of minutes.

 

[Jorkest]

well SWIM has been having issues with xylene..it seems to take at least a few DAYS for anything to precip...everything gets cloudy like with acetone...but it takes a long time for anything to drop..not sure whats happening but its weird

 

[Nanaki]

Could it be too much Xylene. Wouldn't the DMT need to almost saturate the Xylene to precipitate that fast? Maybe a little less xylene and more pulls, no?

SWIM will try it with hot xylene. Still have about 120g of MHRB.

This time he'll do A/B then the FASA. STB is very messy like dirty motor oil, and somewhat stinky.

 

[Infundibulum]

well SWIM has been having issues with xylene..it seems to take at least a few DAYS for anything to precip...everything gets cloudy like with acetone...but it takes a long time for anything to drop..not sure whats happening but its weird

It's not too much xylene. I suspect water contamination in the acetone or the xylene if precipitation is taking so long. Seriously, if there is some water in the xylene/FASA mixture it will keep dmt fumarate dissolved.

 

[Jorkest]

how could there be water in the xylene? and if there was some in the acetone..wouldnt it separate once it was added to the xylene?

it could also be how SWIM was extracting...he is doing a STB extraction on chaliponga..no defatting..just lye water and chali leaves(almost powdered) and then xylene was added and left to sit for awhile...sloshed around a bit...and then poured off....he then put the xylene through a filter to catch some random little gunk that was floating..which did the trick..and then he added the FASA..there was immediate clouding..but then nothing else happened..so he just put it in the cupboard to see if it just needed time to drop...sure enough...2 days later...some beautiful needle like crystals formed..this was the first pull...from 50g of leaf..he got about 180mg of 5-meo/dmt fumarate..

SWIM heard that if he didnt defat the yield would be a little low..but hes gonna clean his xylene and put it back in the pug to do another pull..but hes wondering if the fats and oils in the solvent are what is slowing down the reaction

hes still happy that it worked though..he tested the resulting crystals last night sublingually

he had been doing a little THH, DMT fumarate and cacao bean experiment before hand..maybe 3 hours before...so he still had the THH in his system..and was still experiencing the DMT...but the 5-meo sublingually was wonderful...such a wonderful body high...and crystal clear thoughts..even though they may have been a bit strange..

will up the dose next time

and the cacao bean experiment was inconclusive...he had a fairly full stomach when he tried it...it needs to be done on an empty stomach

 

[Infundibulum]

Now that SWIY mention the chali thing, SWIM's FOAF also vaguely remembered something similar when he went STB/FASA on chaliponga. It would take somewhat longer to sediment. Certainly not as fast as MHRB-derived alkaloids. But as long as it sedimented it was fine. SWIY must have seen that when the fumarates from chali are washed with acetone sediment pretty fast however.

Lipids can possibly hinder precipitation. I had never thought about that, thanks for mentioning!

 

[Jorkest]

is it necessary to wash the fumarates with acetone? i understand that it will clean away any residual fumaric acid..and possibly some xylene left overs..but SWIM says his crystals smell beautiful..and are VERY fluffy needle crystals..they have almost a pinkish/orange tint to them as well....but they look extremely clean

hes never seen any spice that looked like this before..even though they have a pinkish tint to them..they are still very light in color

once he does a few more pulls and gets most of the spiciness out..he will wash them with acetone and see if they lose any of that color they have..

 

[Nanaki]

What's fumaric acid's vape point? Is it necessary to wash the DMT fumarate if in fact it would vape at a higher temp than the DMT.

Wait, nevermind, fumarate, a salt is used for oral. Have to freebase it to smoke. I just like to avoid washes when I can to save product.

 

[Infundibulum]

is it necessary to wash the fumarates with acetone? i understand that it will clean away any residual fumaric acid..and possibly some xylene left overs..but SWIM says his crystals smell beautiful..and are VERY fluffy needle crystals..they have almost a pinkish/orange tint to them as well....but they look extremely clean

Well, washing the fumarates with some acetone will also remove any residual lipids that may be trapped within or around the salts. It is good to do it. SWIM's FOAF is not too anal with that however; he washes the fumarates from the xylene precipitation only once, with 5-10ml of acetone per (eyeballing....) 0.5-1g of fumarates.

And he then SAVES this acetone (that also has traces of lipids, xylene and fumaric acid). In the spirit of being economical and not overuse anything, he uses the latter acetone to make more FASA by dumping in it more fumaric acid and use it again on xylene pulls.

 

[Phlux-]

okay i just wanted to ask this q in this thread - proc for xylene fasa
1. disolve fumaric acid in acetone till it stops disolving
2. add this acetone to the xylene for the dmt fumarate to precip
3. syphon off xylene and ur left with dmt-fumarate ?

 

[Infundibulum]

okay i just wanted to ask this q in this thread - proc for xylene fasa
1. disolve fumaric acid in acetone till it stops disolving
2. add this acetone to the xylene for the dmt fumarate to precip
3. syphon off xylene and ur left with dmt-fumarate ?

Exactly. To make FASA just dump an amount of fumaric acid in the acetone.Trying to dissolve more fumaric acid than necessary is no problem;it may even be better just to make sure acetone holds enough of it. In addition, it takes some time for fumaric acid to dissolve, so FASA is good to be prepared beforehand, maybe 1 day before its use to allow for fumaric acid to saturate the acetone.

 

[Phlux-]

and by doing this swim will end up with a mixture of jungle spice and normal spice ?
how to separate ?
and i thought this would only work for alkaloids - isnt jungle a diterpenoid or something similar ?

 

[Infundibulum]

and by doing this swim will end up with a mixture of jungle spice and normal spice ?
how to separate ?
and i thought this would only work for alkaloids - isnt jungle a diterpenoid or something similar ?

Yes, it should be a mixture of dmt, its n-oxide and jungle spice. That, as long as jungle spice is an alkaloids which I think it may be the case. But I have no idea about its nature, I do not know if it is a diterprenoid. Some diterprenoids are not even soluble in xylene, like salvinorin A.

dmt can be washed out washing the freebase with warm naphtha a few times. This should left behind jungle spice and the oxide. SWIM's not sure how to separate the latter!

 

[Phlux-]

"dmt can be washed out washing the freebase with warm naphtha a few times. This should left behind jungle spice and the oxide. SWIM's not sure how to separate the latter!"

Please could u expand on this or point me in the direction of a tek that would clear it up.

Swim washed out the spice from the evapped xylene with warm naptha but it is by no means clean looking - yellowy, browny spice - swim is a bit scared to sample it.

it was fp'd in naptha.

swim has fumaric acid, xylene, lye, hydrochloric acid, naptha and acetone - is there anything he is missing out on other than heptane for growing the xtals - damnit swim cant find heptane anywhere.(he even found hydrofloric acid - but no heptane)

 

[Jorkest]

the yellowy brown spice is actually quite nice!! take a small little chunk(match head) and smoke that! its fast and intense..but SWIM has never seen through his eyelids quite like that before!!