Questions for first Salvia trip.

[JosephSeth11]

Well, I have run several searches and cannot seem to find an answer to this specific question. I would like to know an easy rule of thumb for doses of Salvia. I ordered three packages from Salvia Dragon. 10x 25x and 35x. I was planning on trying the 10x first but I don’t have a scale. Each package contains a gram and I want to start with a reasonably small dose as I will be alone without a sitter. I wanted to use my Valcano but I have heard that I need to get the temp up to 446 F. And the manual for the Valcano says that it tops out at 439 F. I guess I will just use a pipe or bong.

 

[Red Eclipse]

For the 10x, packing half a bowl pack (of a moderately sized bowl) would be a normal dose, IMO. Depending on your lung capacity, make sure you only pack enough to kill in 1 or 2 quick hits. You wont have much time after the first exhale


Also, remember to hold in each hit for a few seconds. 10-20 should be fine




The 25x and 30x maybe an eighth- quarter bowl full (possibly even a light dusting to cover your screen), depending on if it's standardized or not.

 

[Red Eclipse]

To be more precise, Salvorin-A is said to be active at 300-500ug, breakthoughs are probably closer to 500-1000ug, IMO.

Standardized salvia, is said to have 25mg per gram of 10x. 25x would have 62.5mg/gm, and 35x should have around 87.5mg/gm. That being said 25mg = 25,000ug. So if you're able to split that gram 25 ways, it should be sufficient. 25x split ~60 times, and the 35x could possibly around 90 doses.


All of that being said, its very hard to measure that accurately without a milligram scale.







Buy whole salvia leaf and you could make your own extract with a simple alcohol extraction

 

[Phantastica]

agreed with Red Eclipse. just pack enough for 1-2 hits...like 2 pinches. measuring is not that necessary, since after the first one or two trips, you'll be able to gauge your extracts.
and you're correct in assuming that the Volcano won't work for this, since i have tried this myself...but its weird tho. i experienced very subtle effects (which could be placebo), but my friends experienced none from a 20x extract.
But you should always order a small quantity first and see if you prefer the trip. from my personal experience, smoked slavia has just been bizarre and "pointless." I don't like it much, but i have heard great things about quidded Salvia. this is the way that the traditional shamans did it, and is the proper way of doing it. according to some, smoking the leaves upsets the salvia spirit.
However, if and when you do decide to trip on quidded salvia, make sure that you have a sitter present. Salvia will make you forget reality, and you will have no clue what you're doing. the risky part here is that people can walk on salvia, unlike with dmt, and can end up in risky scenarios. it is also much longer (~30min) than smoked trip (~10min). but sitters are not necessary for a smoked session, unless you feel the need.

 

[Vector]

I would recommend finding a sitter starting with the strongest stuff you have and working your way down. So many times I've seen people want to work their way up to the top only to be scared away by how uncomfortable salvia can feel at first. If you start at the top (and She allows you to pass through the gate) it will throw open the salvia doors in your head and you'll be able to achieve very profound effects from lower strength stuff in subsequent trips.

I think of it like when you need to remove a bandage. going slow will just drag out the unpleasantness; you want to just rip off the bandage quickly.

Also, i must disagree with Phantastica on this and insist that you need to HAVE A SITTER FOR YOUR FIRST SALVIA TRIP. I've seen a lot of people get up and try to move around the room on their first time....could be really dangerous. Once you get used to that space, you'll just lay there, but the first time is unpredictable.

can't give advice on using a vaporizer though, i've always just put a couple pinches in a bong and burned the whole bowl in one hit.

 

[gibran2]

I would recommend finding a sitter starting with the strongest stuff you have and working your way down. So many times I've seen people want to work their way up to the top only to be scared away by how uncomfortable salvia can feel at first. If you start at the top (and She allows you to pass through the gate) it will throw open the salvia doors in your head and you'll be able to achieve very profound effects from lower strength stuff in subsequent trips.
...

This is bad advice for unfamiliar substances in general, and especially bad advice for salvia in particular.

DO NOT start with a high dose and work your way down. That’s just plain irresponsible and thoughtless. The logic makes no sense: people are scared away by how uncomfortable low doses can be, so it is suggested starting with a high dose? Taking the most potent naturally occurring psychoactive substance is not like ripping off a bandage!

Start with a low dose of either plain (un-enhanced) leaf or a low-strength extract, and gradually work your way up. Get familiar with the physical sensations that often accompany salvia experiences. As you gradually increase your dose, you’ll not only learn about the effects in a controlled way, but you’ll also learn what dose level is right for you.

For most people, salvia experiences can be every bit as intense and potentially terrifying as difficult DMT experiences. Don’t underestimate it, and don’t dive in with a high dose experience.

 

[JosephSeth11]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think what Gibran2 says makes sense and I am definitely going to start with a low dose. This is what I did with Psilocybin and I appreciated the gradual increase in effects. It was almost like getting to know a person as the effects were so unique at the different doses. I guess I will use a sitter the first time even though I doubt that I will get up and move around, but you never know. Part of me wants to do my first dose inside an isolation tank but I have decided that it would be too closed in for such an experience. Instead I am going to hike to my favorite place in the outdoors and do it there.

 

[Vector]

I would recommend finding a sitter starting with the strongest stuff you have and working your way down. So many times I've seen people want to work their way up to the top only to be scared away by how uncomfortable salvia can feel at first. If you start at the top (and She allows you to pass through the gate) it will throw open the salvia doors in your head and you'll be able to achieve very profound effects from lower strength stuff in subsequent trips.
...

This is bad advice for unfamiliar substances in general, and especially bad advice for salvia in particular.

DO NOT start with a high dose and work your way down. That’s just plain irresponsible and thoughtless. The logic makes no sense: people are scared away by how uncomfortable low doses can be, so it is suggested starting with a high dose? Taking the most potent naturally occurring psychoactive substance is not like ripping off a bandage!

Start with a low dose of either plain (un-enhanced) leaf or a low-strength extract, and gradually work your way up. Get familiar with the physical sensations that often accompany salvia experiences. As you gradually increase your dose, you’ll not only learn about the effects in a controlled way, but you’ll also learn what dose level is right for you.

For most people, salvia experiences can be every bit as intense and potentially terrifying as difficult DMT experiences. Don’t underestimate it, and don’t dive in with a high dose experience.

I guess we have a difference in philosophy, perhaps the bandage analogy wasn't appropriate, so here is another:
Say you're at the beach on a chilly day and there is a long dock reaching out into the water. You say "I'll just ease my way in up to about knee legnth" but all this does is show you how cold the water is. Meanwhile, your friends who just dove off the end of the dock are having a blast swimming in the freezing water while you watch from the shore.

I'm not trying to be irresponsible in giving this advice, I just think its pointless to use low strength salvia if you've never had a breakthrough (especially given the reverse tolerance most people have to salvia). Its just going to make you uncomfortable and confused, and you'll likely be turned off from diving in and getting the full experience.

You shouldn't be using these substances at all if you're afraid of the full effects

 

[JosephSeth11]

You shouldn't be using these substances at all if you're afraid of the full effects

I think the problem is that with all drugs, different people have different levels of tolerence. The "full effects" for you might cause adverse effects in others.

 

[gibran2]

I guess we have a difference in philosophy, perhaps the bandage analogy wasn't appropriate, so here is another:
Say you're at the beach on a chilly day and there is a long dock reaching out into the water. You say "I'll just ease my way in up to about knee legnth" but all this does is show you how cold the water is. Meanwhile, your friends who just dove off the end of the dock are having a blast swimming in the freezing water while you watch from the shore.

I'm not trying to be irresponsible in giving this advice, I just think its pointless to use low strength salvia if you've never had a breakthrough (especially given the reverse tolerance most people have to salvia). Its just going to make you uncomfortable and confused, and you'll likely be turned off from diving in and getting the full experience.

You shouldn't be using these substances at all if you're afraid of the full effects

It’s not a question of “philosophy”. It’s a question of common sense.
Let me use another analogy:

Rather than drink a glass of wine with dinner, why not just drink a whole bottle of vodka instead? After a full bottle of vodka, I know I could count on nausea, vomiting, vertigo, near complete loss of coordination, and a possible trip to the emergency room. Those are the “full effects” of alcohol consumption.

So are you suggesting that unless someone is willing to endure the “full effects” of alcohol as described above, then they shouldn’t use alcohol at all? Think!!!

 

[proto-pax]

I dove in with a pretty strong extract 60x I believe, and yeah it was terrifying, and only after about 3 months did I want to try it again. Though I wasn't as much of a psychonaught then as I am now.

 

[unansweredquestions]

personaly, I've found small doses to be far less comfertable than higher strength. however, iv never been a fan off salvia! i took the jump off the deep end approach, totaly underestimating the substance. well, it kicked my ass and now even when i try a small cap it just reminds me of the approach of that moment; not a good feeling or boat to be in. that being said, i had a real experience on it and was really taught a few lessons. but hey, lessons can be learnt in time! start small, get your feel for it and work your way up.
on the other hand, i cant aggree with this weighing up with milligram scales approach, 10x with half a cap would be a fair starting point. then a full cap, then move up in strength/ or down appropriatly. just my adjusted opinion to it though, its a personal thing, start reasonably small and you'l learn it for yourself.

 

[Vector]

I guess we have a difference in philosophy, perhaps the bandage analogy wasn't appropriate, so here is another:
Say you're at the beach on a chilly day and there is a long dock reaching out into the water. You say "I'll just ease my way in up to about knee legnth" but all this does is show you how cold the water is. Meanwhile, your friends who just dove off the end of the dock are having a blast swimming in the freezing water while you watch from the shore.

I'm not trying to be irresponsible in giving this advice, I just think its pointless to use low strength salvia if you've never had a breakthrough (especially given the reverse tolerance most people have to salvia). Its just going to make you uncomfortable and confused, and you'll likely be turned off from diving in and getting the full experience.

You shouldn't be using these substances at all if you're afraid of the full effects

It’s not a question of “philosophy”. It’s a question of common sense.
Let me use another analogy:

Rather than drink a glass of wine with dinner, why not just drink a whole bottle of vodka instead? After a full bottle of vodka, I know I could count on nausea, vomiting, vertigo, near complete loss of coordination, and a possible trip to the emergency room. Those are the “full effects” of alcohol consumption.

So are you suggesting that unless someone is willing to endure the “full effects” of alcohol as described above, then they shouldn’t use alcohol at all? Think!!!

did you really just compare salvia to alcohol? Salvia is an entheogen, alcohol is a poison....you really can't accurately compare "full effects" of the two.

Maybe you're right, though, and people should start small. I'm just giving advice based on what worked for me. I smoked salvia leaf once and that was almost the last time I ever tried it until years later, by chance, I had a bag of 20x thrown in my face. I thank the goddess that I decided to try it despite how awkward it was to smoke salvia leaf, because it was one of the single most important experiences of my life.

 

[Vector]

curious to see how OP's experience was...

did you end up going with low stregnth?

 

[Global]

I've found that smoking technique is about twice as important as your extract potency. As everyone said, holding it in for as long as possible is essential but so is getting that temperature up, and the quickest way to do so is with a butane lighter. For me, the butane lighter can make all the difference between a mild experience and something of a different character. I'm not trying to say that you can't get just as far with a bic, just saying that I find it much easier with the butane

 

[SpiralNeuroEclipse]

With salvia, i think a good breakthrough dose is the preffered way to go. Salvia is very dysphoric and uncomfortable for me. Just thinking about it gives me the heebie jeebies...

My advice is buy 10x-15x its plenty strong. Pack a full sized bowl, use a butane torch and fire in the hole!

As you blow it out, you will be dissolved into data. Do it in a safe, comfortable place, with familiar people who will respect its power and help you come to grips when on your return landing.

Be safe and smart.

 

[gibran2]

With salvia, i think a good breakthrough dose is the preffered way to go. Salvia is very dysphoric and uncomfortable for me. Just thinking about it gives me the heebie jeebies...

My advice is buy 10x-15x its plenty strong. Pack a full sized bowl, use a butane torch and fire in the hole!

...

If you haven’t already, maybe you should read this thread. Your comments seem all over the map:

On the one hand, you recommend “a good breakthrough dose”. On the other, you say that salvia is “very uncomfortable and dysphoric”. Then you conclude by advising “pack a full sized bowl”.

If salvia is approached in a respectful and sensible manner, it is every bit as rewarding as many other entheogens.

General advice: Start with low doses, slowly work your way up as you become accustomed to the effects, and if using extracts, always measure your doses. Depending on the extract used, the difference between a very pleasant experience and an uncomfortable, dysphoric one, can be just a few milligrams.