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QUick question on subL/maoi and Vaped/spice!

Migrated topic.
Hi Dimitri-Trance,

I have been trying to figure out if I am even weirder than I thought and cannot seem to find a consensus on this.

For my work with both oral THH (up to 200 mg) and strong b. caapi tea (50 grams) I have got to say that what I'm getting is the following:

1.) Spice comes on FAST & HARD - so fast once I wound up wide-eyed catatonic and freaked my husband out a bit.

2.) For me, the harmalas make the visuals ramp way UP. Much better, much more coherent and great colors.

3.) For me, the experience of breaking through is suddenly much easier to achieve - I've had it happen twice now (with only 3 oral MAOI experiments) when I didn't expect it or go in trying to consume a breakthrough dose.

4.) The time in the breakthrough space (according to my husband) is about the same or perhaps a minute or two longer (5-8 mins.) but the comedown is extended significantly and the return to baseline happens more leisurly. Thus, with a good dose of harmalas (200 mg THH) it took me a full 2 hours to come down. With a lower dose (150 mg) I was down in an hour but the CEV's during the return to baseline were much more intense, 3-D and long-lasting.

Peace & Love,
Pandora
 
Speaking of alcohol. SWIM had a beautiful vaporhuasca experience after 300 mg of kava extract and couple of beers.

70 mg of caapi copy powder were taken sublingually and in 10 min 20 mg of spice were inhaled. What followed was a completely euphoric, warm and erotic 15-20 min sub-breakthrough experience.
 
Pandora said:
1.) Spice comes on FAST & HARD - so fast once I wound up wide-eyed catatonic and freaked my husband out a bit.
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So, SWIM is not alone to have that experience. She was fooled by some reports stating that with MAOI the onset is much slower. Foolishly enough when she inhaled from the machine she stood by the door a meter or so from her sofa, not sitting as usual. Luckily, she managed to direct her limp unconscious body in the general direction of the sofa. There was several minutes of complete blackout (no idea of how long because the journey was solo) and almost 2 hours of excruciating psychological torture. Since then SWIM doesn't like rue at all.
 
Don't blame an overdose on rue, just use less. Its a far more potent maoi than caapi so you use less I think this fact has gotten lost somewhere.
 
Observant said:
One could use Atropine to dry his mouth - there are 400mcg Tablets against drooling on the market. ;)
Dunno if its a good idea ... SLOT ONLINE | DEPO SLOT | SLOTS CASINO
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That will work, but there’s no point in buying that expensive stuff. 3-5 Datura stramonium seeds would do the same thing if you held them in your mouth for a long time. Atropine is pretty much identical to hyoscyamine, the main alkaloid in Datura stramonium seeds.
 
Trickster said:
Pandora said:
1.) Spice comes on FAST & HARD - so fast once I wound up wide-eyed catatonic and freaked my husband out a bit.
Click to expand...

So, SWIM is not alone to have that experience. She was fooled by some reports stating that with MAOI the onset is much slower. Foolishly enough when she inhaled from the machine she stood by the door a meter or so from her sofa, not sitting as usual. Luckily, she managed to direct her limp unconscious body in the general direction of the sofa. There was several minutes of complete blackout (no idea of how long because the journey was solo) and almost 2 hours of excruciating psychological torture. Since then SWIM doesn't like rue at all.
Click to expand...

I’ve had it happen both ways:

Sometimes subl. harmalas (I use mainly THH) significantly intensify the experience, make the visuals much more intense, etc.

Other times, the onset is delayed, the experience is muted and dulled.

I think it might have to do with the DMT dose, where harmalas will amplify the intensity of a high dose experience, and attenuate low dose experiences.

Does that make any sense?
 
mumbles said:
Don't blame an overdose on rue, just use less. Its a far more potent maoi than caapi so you use less I think this fact has gotten lost somewhere.
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Well, SWIM's understanding of MAOI action is that you can only have so much inhibition. At some dosage there is a saturation of inhibition effect. No matter how much more you take there is no more inhibition. So, after this harmalas dose there will be no increase of spice potentiation. Of course at around that dose and higher poisoning will start to play greater and greater role.

Maybe SWIM's ideas are too simplistic and mechanical. In her former life she had some serious training in physics.
 
This is true there is a limit to MAO inhibition and the effect of exceeding that dose is just the general psychoactive natures of the harmalas, nice and subtle but don't go crazy with them.
 
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Harmaline(rue) will slow the onset, increase the duration, make the experience more foggy and difficult to recall. It also seems to decrease the euphoria.

Harmine and THH together(caapi) give a much clearer, cleaner more euphoric, memorable and pleasant experience.

Time after time I read of people having a hard journey due to syrian rue. I know there are those out there who like it and like their medicine with a side of 'stern and strict'. I for one am not one of those people. I don't like rue. I have tons of it and all it does is sit there.

If you want to try a harmala enhanced journey, great. Just remember that each of the source plants have a distinct character to them. Having tried both myself numerous times I have found I prefer Caapi. I even take it by itself due to its calming, anti-depressant effects.


E
 
Swim has smoked harmine/harmaline by itself its a great subtle mood booster but hasn't tried THH so can't comment he only knows it is a much weaker maoi by weight. Sorry if this has been asked before but will a smoked maoi work with sublingual DMT? He expects it should but he asks because the alkaloids all taste horrible but smoked they are much easier.
 
The MAOI effects of THH are equal to harmine, but both are weaker than harmaline. This is judged from SWIM's personal tests in which 200 mg of THH was a full MAOI dose for DMT orally. That's the same dose he needed for harmine. But with harmaline he only needs 100 mg to fully activate DMT orally.

Unlike harmine and harmaline, THH is also a weak SSRI and that might help explain why its reported to be a weaker MAOI than the others, but can activate DMT orally at the same dose harmine can.
 
Time after time I read of people having a hard journey due to syrian rue. I know there are those out there who like it and like their medicine with a side of 'stern and strict'. I for one am not one of those people. I don't like rue. I have tons of it and all it does is sit there.
Click to expand...

I think a rue extract is closer to a freebase experience. Caapi feels more organic but also has a more serious undertone.
 
I'm curious of peoples general feeling about this method -- Sublingual Harmala/ Vap Spice... vs Changa.

I ask because Swim recently made his first Caapi Leaf Changa using 1:1 Caapi Leaf/Full Range Spice with an additional .2 Caapi Freebase Harmalas.

The result was that the Changa seemed a bit less smooth and harder on the throat and lungs, even with VG.

The lighter may have stayed on the Diffuser a little too long because the caapi leaf turned into an ember briefly in chamber at the end of inhalation.
There was a little bit of a burnt taste, and that feeling of throat constriction with swallowing lasted quite a while.
Some congestion was even noted in the AM.

However overall the experience had a whole other component to it.
One that I would like to repeat, but without the added component of more smoke and harshness on throat/lungs.

For one, right after inhalation SWIm got up to turn off a light and felt like half his 200 lb+ weight.
Then overall during, much more relaxed physically and mentally.
Afterwards a very smily kind of feeling that has never been present with pure spice.
That feeling lasted for a while.
The fear component seemed quite noticeably reduced.

I would like to keep experimenting but SWIM has to find the smoothest route possible or will have to abandon the smoking route of Administration for now. It is really about that time in life whereby all smoke, even occasional, is being phased out for the better of the health.

Although I like the idea of "Full Range" profiles of Mimosa,
IF a purified spice would allow for the absolute minimum of actually vaporized material entering the throat and lung, and this is the smoothest compared to the additional alkaloids, then this needs to be the direction adopted for the next part of the evolution/experiments.

Thanks for your consideration.
 
plumsmooth said:
I'm curious of peoples general feeling about this method -- Sublingual Harmala/ Vap Spice... vs Changa.
Click to expand...
When using changa, you are effectively diluting the DMT vapors. If used in a bong, you’re adding smoke from the leaf material. If using a VG, you’re adding vaporized plant material. To minimize the amount of vapor you inhale, you need to minimize the amount of material you vaporize.

I think the best method to minimize smoke/vapor inhalation is to pre-dose harmala alkaloids sublingually, wait about 20 minutes, then vaporize pure spice on a disc of non-reactive metal mesh in a VG. This method not only minimizes the amount of vapor that must be inhaled, but also is extremely effective.
 
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