Quitting opiates/addictive substances - Tips, strategies, complementary tools

[Nathanial.Dread]

I know that recommending one drug to deal with the withdrawals from another may be a bad idea, but if you think you can handle it, a friend of mine kicked a 3 year heroin by smoking a large quantity of marijuana and playing guitar non-stop for the duration of the acute stage. After the initial pain had passed, he cut down on the amount he was smoking, but continues to play a lot of guitar -- he got really good and now get gigs around our town playing.

It's not something you could try if you had a real job, I don't think, he was living at home with his parents and was unemployed, but he swears by it.

It's definitely NOT a route everyone could take (if you became addicted to one thing, you already know your likely to get addicted to another), however, I post this here in the interest of putting all options out there. It's a similar idea to medical marijuana: apparently it dulled the pain and gave him relief from the anxiety and depression caused by withdrawal.

Blessings (and good luck)
~ND

 

[Entheogenerator]

I know that recommending one drug to deal with the withdrawals from another may be a bad idea, but if you think you can handle it, a friend of mine kicked a 3 year heroin by smoking a large quantity of marijuana and playing guitar non-stop for the duration of the acute stage. After the initial pain had passed, he cut down on the amount he was smoking, but continues to play a lot of guitar -- he got really good and now get gigs around our town playing.

It's not something you could try if you had a real job, I don't think, he was living at home with his parents and was unemployed, but he swears by it.

It's definitely NOT a route everyone could take (if you became addicted to one thing, you already know your likely to get addicted to another), however, I post this here in the interest of putting all options out there. It's a similar idea to medical marijuana: apparently it dulled the pain and gave him relief from the anxiety and depression caused by withdrawal.

Blessings (and good luck)
~ND

I think that there is some potential for certain drugs to be used in treatment of addiction. I mean sure, there is some risk of the person just trying to substitute their old DOC with another, but there can also be some benefit to it. I just think it's important to weigh the potential risks against the potential benefits. Personally, I think that the risk of perhaps becoming dependent on cannabis is far outweighed by the risks that come with continuing to use heroin. In my experience, certain drugs have been extremely helpful in combating my addiction to heroin. I have have been helped tremendously by psychedelics, as well as certain pharmaceuticals like buprenorphine. As long as they are not used in excess and the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks, I'm all for whatever it takes.

 

[SpartanII]

I know that recommending one drug to deal with the withdrawals from another may be a bad idea, but if you think you can handle it, a friend of mine kicked a 3 year heroin by smoking a large quantity of marijuana and playing guitar non-stop for the duration of the acute stage.

As an ex-heroin abuser, I can relate.

I tried many things, but the best was either cold turkey or therapeutic use of cannabis and kratom extract, depending on the amount of available emotional energy I had at the time.

IME, weed helped with the mental/emotional aspect of the withdrawals, and kratom helped with both mental and physical withdrawals, both acute and post-withdrawal.

A winning combination. But as with any behavior, it can be abused. The key is to treat it as a tool, not as a substitute or an escape.:thumb_up:

 

[under the veil]

Great thread! I'll post my little story and how I was triumphant in a bit..As soon as I can figure out how to sum it up in a way that doesn't take two days & a thousand pages.

I WILL go ahead and put this out there: Anyone that's still struggling with addiction, DO NOT give up on yourself. Anything can be overcome if you're devoted, honest with yourself, & serious about taking your life back. I'm walking, breathing, living proof....and I was the definition of a self destructive, full blown Heroin/any drug I could ingest addict. For years.

It isn't a cake walk, as everyone knows. However, if you possess the ability to use, you possess the ability to quit. Successfully!

:thumb_up:
Sounds like the younger versions of you and I would have gotten along quite nicely. lol

I have a notion that we'd get along even better now. Pleased to make your acquaintance! I bet we could swap success/failure stories for days on end. I know I have no shortage of things to report. It's a miracle that my body never just gave up and shut down on me....OHHHH, the power of healing is wondrous!

 

[Entheogenerator]

It's a miracle that my body never just gave up and shut down on me....

If I only had a dollar for every time I have though or said that!

 

[infinitynlove]

It's a miracle that my body never just gave up and shut down on me....

The body is an amazing thing isn't it!

I was heavily addicted to speed for a number of years, I found the only way to stay clean is to have something else to replace it with ... I don't mean another drug, I mean something else that provides some form of happiness sufficient enough to prevent a relapse.

With me it was meditation, it often providers one with a sense of peace, bliss and love. that was more than enough to replace the effects of the speed and that allowed me to go on without it! (feel free to read my intro report here if you want to know more about my addiction and how it changed my life!)

I still miss it sometimes, raving on speed and acid was amazing! I still sometimes take MDMA but those types of drugs are all recreational and occasional for me now, most of the time I am strait headed and not under the influence of any drug (Im writing this on new years day with a joint in my hand, I feel so hypocritical right now! lol).

I feel addiction is similar to breaking up with a partner... After the breakup all of a sudden there is a void in ones life and we try to fill that void either by trying to get back with our partner, get a new partner, or fill our time with things that take the mind off the fact that we do not have a partner any more... with drugs its easy, you can just buy more drugs when you miss them!

So fill that gap with something else, something you enjoy that brings you happiness and is satisfying, that way its much easier to stay clean!

Hope this helps someone out there

love and peace.

 

[Entheogenerator]

I was heavily addicted to speed for a number of years, I found the only way to stay clean is to have something else to replace it with ... I don't mean another drug, I mean something else that provides some form of happiness sufficient enough to prevent a relapse.

I agree 100%.

I feel addiction is similar to breaking up with a partner... After the breakup all of a sudden there is a void in ones life and we try to fill that void either by trying to get back with our partner, get a new partner, or fill our time with things that take the mind off the fact that we do not have a partner any more... with drugs its easy, you can just buy more drugs when you miss them!

One of my counselors from the intensive outpatient treatment program I went through used to use this analogy all the time. She would even compare all of the stages of a relationship (meeting a person, growing attached, falling in love, getting married, divorce, etc.) to the stages of becoming addicted to a substance (trying a new drug, deciding to do it again, repeated frequent use, becoming addicted, recovery, etc.). I think this is a very good analogy. It really does a sufficient job of portraying the extent to which an addicted person develops an attatchment to their drug of choice.

Glad your life is on a better path these days, infinitylove!

 

[○]

A pretty thorough article on the neurobiology of opioid dependance/etc.

The Neurobiology of Opioid Dependence: Implications for Treatment

Opioid tolerance, dependence, and addiction are all manifestations of brain changes resulting from chronic opioid abuse. The opioid abuser’s struggle for recovery is in great part a struggle to overcome the effects of these changes. Medications ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

tat

 

[Entheogenerator]

A pretty thorough article on the neurobiology of opioid dependance/etc.

The Neurobiology of Opioid Dependence: Implications for Treatment

Opioid tolerance, dependence, and addiction are all manifestations of brain changes resulting from chronic opioid abuse. The opioid abuser’s struggle for recovery is in great part a struggle to overcome the effects of these changes. Medications ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

tat

Thatnks tat! I look forward to reading it! :thumb_up:

 

[Bancopuma]

Only a small thing, but the guy who introduced me to iboga mainly used to treat heroin addicts. He had been a heroin addict himself and hot got clean via iboga, and so has personal faith in it. But he recommended detoxing heroin addicts eat spicy foods, have hot baths and get some sun, and exercise post iboga. All these things naturally trigger endorphin production, and can be good at stoking the body's furnaces back into action, and assist with recovery from the physical withdrawal.

 

[Entheogenerator]

Only a small thing, but the guy who introduced me to iboga mainly used to treat heroin addicts. He had been a heroin addict himself and hot got clean via iboga, and so has personal faith in it. But he recommended detoxing heroin addicts eat spicy foods, have hot baths and get some sun, and exercise post iboga. All these things naturally trigger endorphin production, and can be good at stoking the body's furnaces back into action, and assist with recovery from the physical withdrawal.

Good advice! From personal experience I can vouch for the fact that most of these things (not a huge fan of super spicy foods, but I remember reading somewhere that there is a lot of evidence that it is effective) are extremely helpful for people in opiate/opioid detox, with or without the use of ibogaine. :thumb_up:

 

[hug46]

I concur with the excersise/endorphin regime and you can"t go wrong with a decent curry. I would also add music to that list. If you can combine it with a bit of dancing/aerobics, or just generally bouncing around, then you get to kill 2 birds with one stone.

Another one of my top tips for conquering addiction is to remove yourself from the environment that you were in when using. If it is possible to move to a completely new location (maybe in the countryside) in conjunction with seeking professional help then, not only do you remove certain mental triggers that can lead to relapse, but you get time to take stock of your situation with a clean head whilst becoming used to not using everyday.

It can be a bit daunting if you do not know anyone in the area but unfortunately these situations are far from an easy ride.

 

[SpartanII]

Another one of my top tips for conquering addiction is to remove yourself from the environment that you were in when using. If it is possible to move to a completely new location (maybe in the countryside) in conjunction with seeking professional help then, not only do you remove certain mental triggers that can lead to relapse, but you get time to take stock of your situation with a clean head whilst becoming used to not using everyday.

You can take the junkie out of the poppy fields, but you can't take the poppy fields out of the junkie. Yeah.. I think that's how the saying goes.:twisted:

 

[null24]

I prolly (I know I have) said this before, but I recently detoxed myself from methadone, successfully. I titrated my dose from 90mg to 1mg over a 12 month period , but here's the key- I spent an entire month on 1mg. People don't seem to realize how much methadone builds up in your system, due to its long half life. Spending a long time at 1 allowed my body to basically rid itself of that build up.

I spent 20 some odd years shooting heroin, or on methadone. To have three months now off of everything is a pretty big accomplishment for me, and if I can do it, well, ANYONE can.

The other bits of wise advice:wink: I give people is:
EXERCISE EXERCISE EXERCISE! It really does get the natural endorphins going again.

Also, EAT WELL. Whatever that means to you, but common sense prevails.

Keep stress to a minimum. (ha)

My route to this place includes psychedelics, and Im sure I dont need to proselytize that here. I would very much like to access iboga, at this time, I dont have the various resources to do so, but DMT has helped me immensely. It helped me get to the place where I could do this.

Oh, and I want to mention, for all the horror stories people tell of getting off methadone, with the long titration, good diet and exercise regimen, I did not lose a single night 's sleep, nor experience any of the physical symptoms usually associated with that process. Emotionally, its a different story, and I really do advise to try not to engage in high stress activities or circumstance.

Seriously, heroin and opiates are soul-killers. I know that anyone who wants to get off the crap can.

PERSEVERE!

 

[Entheogenerator]

I prolly (I know I have) said this before, but I recently detoxed myself from methadone, successfully. I titrated my dose from 90mg to 1mg over a 12 month period , but here's the key- I spent an entire month on 1mg. People don't seem to realize how much methadone builds up in your system, due to its long half life. Spending a long time at 1 allowed my body to basically rid itself of that build up.

I spent 20 some odd years shooting heroin, or on methadone. To have three months now off of everything is a pretty big accomplishment for me, and if I can do it, well, ANYONE can.

The other bits of wise advice:wink: I give people is:
EXERCISE EXERCISE EXERCISE! It really does get the natural endorphins going again.

Also, EAT WELL. Whatever that means to you, but common sense prevails.

Keep stress to a minimum. (ha)

My route to this place includes psychedelics, and Im sure I dont need to proselytize that here. I would very much like to access iboga, at this time, I dont have the various resources to do so, but DMT has helped me immensely. It helped me get to the place where I could do this.

Oh, and I want to mention, for all the horror stories people tell of getting off methadone, with the long titration, good diet and exercise regimen, I did not lose a single night 's sleep, nor experience any of the physical symptoms usually associated with that process. Emotionally, its a different story, and I really do advise to try not to engage in high stress activities or circumstance.

Seriously, heroin and opiates are soul-killers. I know that anyone who wants to get off the crap can.

PERSEVERE!

Congrats on the three months! :thumb_up:

This is some very sound advice you've posted here. I too have found psychedelics to be essential tools in my continuing recovery.

 

[joshisom]

i have battled a heavy opioid addiction over the past 3-4 (heroin oxycontin but mainly morphine and fentanyl) the first time i quit i went cold turkey and suffered the most painful 3 day experience in my life. everytime i went cold turkey after the WD i felt extremely good about life for the first 2-3 weeks and then this sort of darkness would always swallow me and id be back using again. another time i tried weening which is extremely hard because at least for me i was taking them to be high and when you ween you just do not get high. for me the biggest problem of quiting was the physical pain the emotional aftermath as tough but nothing unmanigible.
eventually my habit got to the point i could not stand the physical effect of WD call me a cry baby but they would hurt so bad i wanted to die. for people who share this feeling do not lose hope because you CAN stop using opiate with little to no physical pain. for me suboxone has been a lifesaver if taken right you will experience no pain and for me it also kept my mind ready to function and the great thing about it is when you use it right you wont even notice the transition from being on suboxone to being on nothing. i think people that say suboxone does not work for them are not taking it correctly you cannot take it to soon and you dont want to wait till you are experiencing WD either because it takes a little bvit to start working and if you wait to long it will make your wd WORSE before they get better if you do do this just remember they will get better. my transit tme from opiate to suboxone would b 12 hours sometimes more if i wasnt feeling ffybut it realy depends on what opiate your taking the hardest transition for me was from fentanyl to suboxone id have to take an initial dose of 3 of the 8mg subs to feel better.. as for when to stop taking the suboxone it up to u id personally wait a month
i know how hard this is to do and if you ar serious about quiting id be willing to share more infact i think i will write a tek on getting past WD with no pain as when you look it up u dont find shit. if i hadnt found suboxone i would have not made it. i even had a friend not make it past his last WD and wish i had been able to help him.

 

[Entheogenerator]

eventually my habit got to the point i could not stand the physical effect of WD call me a cry baby but they would hurt so bad i wanted to die.

Anyone who would call you a crybaby for this has clearly never experienced opiate/opioid withdrawals. It is a whole new kind of hell.

I'm really happy that you finally found something that worked for you, joshisom. Personally, the turning point in my recovery when I went from wanting to quit to actually quitting was the day I got on bupe. It is an incredibly useful tool for those of us who have to go through opiate addiction.

I kind of hope that someday buprenorphine will completely replace methadone and push it off the market. That stuff is bad news... It only feeds people's addictions and the withdrawals from methadone are substantially worse than most opiates. I am very grateful to have been born in a time and a place in which I had access to buprenorphine when I really needed it.

Good luck joshisom, I'm glad to hear that you're walking a new path. :thumb_up:

 

[Gone-and-Back]

In my own experience the only thing to do was to just suck it up and detox, staying away from the opiates.

There was a time that I had broken an ankle a while back during my high school years, and the doc had given me a script of some strong vicodin with a refill. However, I never felt much pain so I never took the pills. Once the break was healed, and the cast was off, I decided I wanted to try the pills and see how being high on them was. I loved it. From then on out I would take one or two a day and go on my way, trying to go about my day as normal as possible. At first it was not hard, but then I decided to try snorting the pills after talking to a "friend" about the effects of snorting them.

Worst idea ever. The drips were the worst part, it was absolutely disgusting. But the high was so much better and came on faster. This I think is what really got me hooked on them. However, I soon ran out of my script. So I started looking elsewhere for opiates. I ended up taking vicodins and oxys from some people in my school. It got to the point that I just did not feel right and felt sick if I was not snorting at least a pill or two every day.

After a while these people graduated and left the state to go to college, and I lost my access to the pills. I had no choice but to just deal with it, and detox. It was not fun. I went through a good week of feeling sick and pretty much just sleeping all the time to try to escape the pain. After the first week I no longer had any physical cravings, but the mental cravings were still there. Something bad would happen and I would want to go get high to deal with it and take the stress away. That lasted for a while, but at least I was not sick anymore. I pretty much just got very secluded during this time and internet gaming became my best friend, because it took my mind off of everything going on around me like the pills had.

Now I dont take pills anymore, I dont even like taking things like excedrin for headaches. I would rather deal with whatever ailments are bothering me then take a risk of becoming addicted to something again. The only problem with this is that I have a very bad back (slightly bulging disk), and occasionally am in too much pain to function and have to take something to alleviate said pain. However, I limit myself to just enough to make myself functional, and am still usually in pain. I also know what signs to look for now and dont let myself get to that point.

 

[Entheogenerator]

In my own experience the only thing to do was to just suck it up and detox, staying away from the opiates.

I am glad this method worked for you, but unfortunately it does not work for everyone. Making it through detox is the easy part, staying clean long-term is the part that really takes a significant amount of effort. I "sucked it up and detoxed" countless times, but until this most recent time I always went back. This is the case for many people struggling with addiction.

There was a time that I had broken an ankle a while back during my high school years, and the doc had given me a script of some strong vicodin with a refill. However, I never felt much pain so I never took the pills. Once the break was healed, and the cast was off, I decided I wanted to try the pills and see how being high on them was. I loved it. From then on out I would take one or two a day and go on my way, trying to go about my day as normal as possible. At first it was not hard, but then I decided to try snorting the pills after talking to a "friend" about the effects of snorting them.

Worst idea ever. The drips were the worst part, it was absolutely disgusting. But the high was so much better and came on faster. This I think is what really got me hooked on them. However, I soon ran out of my script. So I started looking elsewhere for opiates. I ended up taking vicodins and oxys from some people in my school. It got to the point that I just did not feel right and felt sick if I was not snorting at least a pill or two every day.

Are... are you... are you me?? :surprised

Lol, but seriously. My high school days were eerily similar. Ugh, just thinking about the taste/feeling of all that acetaminophen dissolving my nasal passages and dripping onto the back of my tongue makes me shudder and want to vomit. The only major differences in my teenage years were that it was my hip that was injured when I was first prescribed opioids, and that when I got to the point that the supply could not meet my demand, I moved to San Francisco and met a nice gentleman who sold 80's and heroin... :?

I am very sorry to hear about the problems you have with your back. Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of evidence which suggests that those of us with a history of opiate abuse typically have a lower pain tolerance than we did before abusing opiates, or than we would have had we not abused opiates in the past. I believe this is caused by the same changes in a persons brain which produce addiction and tolerance. I like to think of it as the brain sort of exaggerating in an attempt to trick the mind into getting high. This does improve over time, as do most of the neurological changes that opiate use causes, but I'm not certain if it ever fully resets. Perhaps this is amplifying the pain that your back causes... I hope you are able to find a long-term solution that doesn't involve having to live with pain or having to take opiates. Good luck brother.

 

[Gone-and-Back]

In my own experience the only thing to do was to just suck it up and detox, staying away from the opiates.

I am glad this method worked for you, but unfortunately it does not work for everyone. Making it through detox is the easy part, staying clean long-term is the part that really takes a significant amount of effort. I "sucked it up and detoxed" countless times, but until this most recent time I always went back. This is the case for many people struggling with addiction.

There was a time that I had broken an ankle a while back during my high school years, and the doc had given me a script of some strong vicodin with a refill. However, I never felt much pain so I never took the pills. Once the break was healed, and the cast was off, I decided I wanted to try the pills and see how being high on them was. I loved it. From then on out I would take one or two a day and go on my way, trying to go about my day as normal as possible. At first it was not hard, but then I decided to try snorting the pills after talking to a "friend" about the effects of snorting them.

Worst idea ever. The drips were the worst part, it was absolutely disgusting. But the high was so much better and came on faster. This I think is what really got me hooked on them. However, I soon ran out of my script. So I started looking elsewhere for opiates. I ended up taking vicodins and oxys from some people in my school. It got to the point that I just did not feel right and felt sick if I was not snorting at least a pill or two every day.

Are... are you... are you me?? :surprised

Lol, but seriously. My high school days were eerily similar. Ugh, just thinking about the taste/feeling of all that acetaminophen dissolving my nasal passages and dripping onto the back of my tongue makes me shudder and want to vomit. The only major differences in my teenage years were that it was my hip that was injured when I was first prescribed opioids, and that when I got to the point that the supply could not meet my demand, I moved to San Francisco and met a nice gentleman who sold 80's and heroin... :?

I am very sorry to hear about the problems you have with your back. Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of evidence which suggests that those of us with a history of opiate abuse typically have a lower pain tolerance than we did before abusing opiates, or than we would have had we not abused opiates in the past. I believe this is caused by the same changes in a persons brain which produce addiction and tolerance. I like to think of it as the brain sort of exaggerating in an attempt to trick the mind into getting high. This does improve over time, as do most of the neurological changes that opiate use causes, but I'm not certain if it ever fully resets. Perhaps this is amplifying the pain that your back causes... I hope you are able to find a long-term solution that doesn't involve having to live with pain or having to take opiates. Good luck brother.

If thats true with pain tolerance then I must have been able to handle a bullet before, because I still have a very good pain tolerance. At least with most types of pain. There are certain forms of pain, like the aching feeling of the back issue, that are not as tolerable. But something like a sprain or a break, or even being cut or stabbed by something, (I use to juggle knives) is not nearly as painful and I can usually handle these forms of pain.

I have found ways around the back pain though, usually the more active I am the less I notice it, unless it involves lifting very heavy objects for extended periods of time. Maybe it has to do with just being more focused on the activities at hand instead of the pain, but who knows. All I know is my doctor refuses to give me pain meds for it due to thinking that I would become addicted, he use to treat my mother and she had a pill issue (sometimes these things are hereditary). So because of that I dont have access to them really, so I have no other choice but to just deal with it. Every now and then though a family member will see I am in way to much pain to function and will give me something of theirs to take, and I will always accept it in those conditions. I know they wont give me more if I asked for it, so its not like I am having a constant supply. So no need to worry about wanting to get more and more of them.