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Real Ayahuasca Jungle brew

Authentic ayahuasca?
Sit with the shaman, make your case why you ask his/her help, shaman drinks aya, you don't.
Not so good for aya tourism though, yet quite respectful toward old-tradition.
 
Dear Jees, in many non-Mestizo indigenous tribal cultures (Cofan, Secoya, Yawanawa, etc), the whole tribe drink ayahuasca together. What you describe is Mestizo Curanderismo.
 
dithyramb said:
Dear Jees, in many non-Mestizo indigenous tribal cultures (Cofan, Secoya, Yawanawa, etc), the whole tribe drink ayahuasca together. What you describe is Mestizo Curanderismo.
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Hi Dithy, hope you're well.
Thank you for widening the context.
You probably know where I'm coming from, it was mentioned few times by Alan Shoemaker in that other forum, he is indeed merely active in curanderismo.
 
In some places its whole tribe consuming, in others only the "shamans", in some place it's only the sick people, in some places women can't drink aya, in other places they can but separated from the men, in some places they drink alcoholic beverages together with aya, in others they say that's a complete no-no, in some places aya is used for "dark magic", in others it's used for healing, and in some places they mix brugmansia, in others .......... etc etc..

Just because there's a tradition in some group, doesn't make it right (or wrong), and it doesn't mean that's how you should necessarily do it, right?
 
Endlessness - I should have made it clear that fresh vine brews are *my preference*, not that they are better. I have no doubt other forms or analogues of ayahuasca can be beneficial and wonderful. They definitely are and have been for me.

I have access to jungle-brewed aya where I live, so I was comparing different preparations in the same setting. And I've sat with various aya brews nearly 700 times. IME fresh vine adds a dimension and feels fuller, it's hard to describe. It's like dried vine brews are a point and fresh vine brews are a 2-D plane. They're full body experiences.

I'm well aware that our beliefs shape our experiences, and it may be a belief that fresh is 'real' and dried is somehow less 'real' (or less traditional - although I don't consider myself a traditionalist, but who knows what's in my subconscious?) that's contributing to this subjective difference, and therefore a blind test would be ideal.
However, it would be hard to do, because brews made from fresh plants taste different and have a different consistency - they're sweeter and thicker.
 
Jagube, just to be clear, while I did quote you on a previous post, I went on a slight rant but that was for the most part not aimed at you, that was just to kickstart my thoughts, but my post was regarding this thread in general and sentiments ive seen expressed often in the community. I respect your experience and you seem like a reasonable person who is mindful of your assumptions and thoughts in general. Have a good day :)
 
I also have a preference for fresh plant material, obviously with rue, and though I don't have experience with fresh caapi I am pretty sure I would appreciate a fresh caapi brew more than brews made from it's dried state.

Apart from harvesting fresh seeds I have been studying sprouted rue seeds, preparing them as soon as they are ready. Freshly harvested seeds and sprouted seeds have a profound depth and immersiveness in common which lacks in dried seeds. The character is a bit different though, freshly harvested seeds carry the energy of the land and the ecosystem they come from while sprouted appears to be more "universal." Aliveness, and access to Spirit is much superior to dried seeds. As jagube describes, it's like another dimension which was lacking is added and it becomes real vs symbolic representation.

Hey Jees. İ am well, studying phragmites after a decade. Hope you are fine as well 🙂
 
dithyramb said:
I also have a preference for fresh plant material, obviously with rue, and though I don't have experience with fresh caapi I am pretty sure I would appreciate a fresh caapi brew more than brews made from it's dried state.

Apart from harvesting fresh seeds I have been studying sprouted rue seeds, preparing them as soon as they are ready. Freshly harvested seeds and sprouted seeds have a profound depth and immersiveness in common which lacks in dried seeds. The character is a bit different though, freshly harvested seeds carry the energy of the land and the ecosystem they come from while sprouted appears to be more "universal." Aliveness, and access to Spirit is much superior to dried seeds. As jagube describes, it's like another dimension which was lacking is added and it becomes real vs symbolic representation.

Hey Jees. İ am well, studying phragmites after a decade. Hope you are fine as well 🙂
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this is amazing dithyramb, i was thinking about sprouted rue seed, how they may hypothetically have a different alkaloid profile. I wonder if they maybe contain more harmol/harmalol?
 
Actually in the lecture of Pinchbeck and Rokhlin's book "When plants dream", I agree with them about the idea of ayahuasca as a continuous evolution in style, techniques and tools. Several authors doubt the ancienty of the brew, like there is no real mention before the 18th century. Therefore Pinchbeck and Rokhlins wrote (page 73):

There is something liberating about this counter-narrative, rejecting the
ahistorical narrative that ayahuasca has been used in the same way for
millennia. If this is the case, we no longer need to see current
experimentation with ayahuasca as inherently wrong or an aberration, as
long as the medicine is treated with respect. Instead, today’s innovators
experimenting with the medicine are not “apostates” or “heretics” rebelling
against the presumed purity of an ancient lineage. They continue a dynamic
process of discovery and exploration – probably in the same way that
shamans, “technicians of the sacred,” to use Mircea Eliade’s term – always
have. Overcoming the idea of ayahuasca use as something fixed, ancient
and pure, we can understand ayahuasca shamanism as a practice – an
applied science – that continually changes as it evolves.
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Endlessness. I really enjoyed the story about turning on the indigenous shaman to smoked dmt. I like the idea of people being open minded, receptive to new things.

I've experienced successful oral administration of dmt a total of four times. All these experiences were the result of consuming rue freebase and freeze precipitated dmt from mimosa bark. Each experience was meaningful to me, and consuming extracted alkaloids was much easier on the stomach (translation, I actually kept it down and it worked, didn't instantly vomit the medicine like I did with rue and mimosa tea).

I have in my possession some vine and some chaliponga. Before the summer is over I intend to prepare and consume a brew.
 
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