Reasons for not using a large open pot for extraction?

[bolverkchaos]

I've been putting lots of thought into my future extractions, and I've started to wonder why no one recommends just using a large (1+ gal) stainless pot?
The major drawbacks of using these cheap 1 gallon jugs is that they A) break under pressure. And B) Don't allow for enough agitation of the bark with the solvent.

I remember when I used to use milk jugs I was able to agitate the mixture more and had better yields (because I wasn't afraid of breaking the container), but if you've used milk jugs you know they get soft too quickly and are not clear, they are a pain.

I've been playing with two ideas.
The first , I'll do the whole extraction in a large SS vessel (Outside, well ventilated), and agitate with a SS pipe or similar,
500g mimosa,
Gallon or less of distilled water,
Acid soak for several hours with Muratic Acid at a ph of 2,
React lye/distilled water separate and add to mixture till ph of 11 or so (Black),
Allow time to react and basify mixture, agitating with with SS pipe a little,

Now because the layer of solvent will be shallow (Wide, open container), I plan to use more solvent than normal (Xylene for me) and agitate it with the SS pipe to thoroughly expose the bark to the solvent.
The pulls will likely pull up basified solution since the layer is shallow, so I will collect all pulls into a good size first collection jar (Or many quart jars), then the basified solution contaminate will be allowed to settle to the bottom.
The solvent is then carefully poured off into either a main collection jar or the evap plate if it looks clean enough.

I like the idea of this method, can anyone tell me what I might be missing or forgetting that doesn't make this a solid idea? You can scale this up or down as much as you want. And since you'll probably be using a pot you can use an electric burner to keep it warm. The only real limitation is pot size, but you can easily get a 5 gallon pot and do more at once, safely, if you wanted to.



The other idea is to buy a Pyrex carboy like this
Pyrex carboy

I believe it'll hold up to repeated extraction without the risk of breaking from heat and pressure, it also has a larger mouth which I think will actually allow for emptying it. You can get them from 4L (1gal) up to 12 gal.

But again, my problem with using a jug or carboy is I'm afraid we're not getting exposure to the bark with the solvent. If you roll or flip or turn over a jug with your mixture and solvent in it, the solvent just seems to glide around the edges and stay on top of the base solution without penetrating very much to get exposure.


What say you?!

 

[Ansar]

I used a big mixing pot for the first extraction I ever did and it worked pretty well. I only had one mason jar so I just put it all in one pot and slowly agitated it with a metal whisk. After it was agitated I gently poured off as much naptha as I could into the mason jar using a funnel. Some of the water went in with it so I just waited a bit for the layers to separate, then I used a turkey baster to get the water (and maybe a little naptha with it) and put it back in the pot.

I got a good yield out of it, all nice white crystals too.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

But again, my problem with using a jug or carboy is I'm afraid we're not getting exposure to the bark with the solvent. If you roll or flip or turn over a jug with your mixture and solvent in it, the solvent just seems to glide around the edges and stay on top of the base solution without penetrating very much to get exposure.
What say you?!

This isn't the case ime...Once your total yield from selective/non-selective solvents is in the 2%+ range (as many people who use limo/xylene get), I think that's fairly good indicator that there's more than enough interaction between the basified aqueous mixture and the NPS.

Additionally, your glass jars shouldn't break from excess pressure. If you're having pressure build-up for whatever reason, just loosen the lid after every agitation and consider waiting to do the agitation once the lye solution has cooled down (I've never seen a mixture put out pressure once it has cooled somewhat).

A large pot sounds like a real pain and I think there's more than adequate evidence that bark can be thoroughly exhausted in a glass jug.

 

[damon]

Sounds messy and dangerous to me. You don't want to mess with the lye soup any more than necessary. I agree though, the milk jugs are a risk in themselves. I had one fail after a couple of months, but it was while sitting inside another container and mostly exhausted, so no big deal. I'm more careful now. Never underestimate the damage that lye can do.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I agree though, the milk jugs are a risk in themselves. I had one fail after a couple of months

In addition to many individual chemicals (mentioned below), Phillips lists two major classes of chemicals that are not compatible with HDPE: aromatic hydrocarbons, and halogenated hydrocarbons. The basic aromatic hydrocarbon is benzene (a major component of gasoline); others are toluene (also called methylbenzene), and the three xylenes (o-, m-and p-xylene). Others include naphthalene (moth balls), and pdichlorobenzene (also moth balls). These aromatic hydrocarbons "permeate excessively and cause package deformation," says Phillips.

Source

 

[bolverkchaos]

But again, my problem with using a jug or carboy is I'm afraid we're not getting exposure to the bark with the solvent. If you roll or flip or turn over a jug with your mixture and solvent in it, the solvent just seems to glide around the edges and stay on top of the base solution without penetrating very much to get exposure.
What say you?!

This isn't the case ime...Once your total yield from selective/non-selective solvents is in the 2%+ range (as many people who use limo/xylene get), I think that's fairly good indicator that there's more than enough interaction between the basified aqueous mixture and the NPS.

Additionally, your glass jars shouldn't break from excess pressure. If you're having pressure build-up for whatever reason, just loosen the lid after every agitation and consider waiting to do the agitation once the lye solution has cooled down (I've never seen a mixture put out pressure once it has cooled somewhat).

A large pot sounds like a real pain and I think there's more than adequate evidence that bark can be thoroughly exhausted in a glass jug.

I suppose you're right, I get 2%+ with jugs already as well.

I've had two glass jugs break on me in the sink in the past, my close friend has had the same issue twice as well. I've used probably five or ten that haven't. But after inspecting the glass of these jugs and the circumstances that caused them to crack and break I don't want to use them anymore, I don't feel it's worth the risk. Even if you are careful, you need to let the mixture cool down a lot, and you have to be very diligent the whole time to vent the mixture, especially while trying to mix in solvent. Pretty much the only time the jug should be sealed is when you're mixing it, and that should only be a few seconds and then burp it. It's amazing how much the glass can stretch from the pressure inside. I've thought about reinforcing them with tape or something, that would at least keep the glass together and limit the mess if something happened.

I like to do pulls while everything is still pretty warm, and with the 1 gal jugs they need to be handled and moved around to mix it. I'm not recommending these jugs anymore, unless you want to do it with the mixture cool.

I don't think it would be that much of a pain, except disposing of it from the pot would probably be. You would def want to wear goggles, mask and long gloves/sleeves. You would need to be able to dispose of it safely.

I suppose I just need to get busy and do it, and then get a pyrex carboy to use too. I feel like I should have one of those anyway, they're badass lol. and with such a large opening you could probably use a pipe or whatever to agitate it in the carboy. I'm thinkin' about the 5 gal pyrex carboy and 5lbs of bark at once :shock: Risky


I still feel like there's gotta be a better reusable extraction vessel or method for this, in another shape of some kind or something. I'm still trying to imagine what it is.....