Regression hypnosis to recall and relive hyperspace as the 3rd person/entity?

[DreaMTripper]

It had me thinking about when trauma is treated whereby the effected relives incidents under hypnosis. Maybe this could be done to relive hyperspace and enable you to pause to look around.

 

[Handel]

I've had the same question in me for weeks now. A good hypnosis regression could reveal things forgotten from these trips.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Be VERY careful when playing with Regression Hypnosis.

I learned general hypnosis at my school, and they really punched how dangerous RH could be. The problem with it is that the brain, in a suggestible state, is told that it should have some memories, and if it can't find them, it will manufacture them.

This can be very bad, especially if the 'memories' are traumatic or disturbing.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Infectedstyle]

Do not see it as regression then, that would be the most dangerous. Perhaps it is more useful and truthworthy as lucid dream therapy.

 

[The Neural]

Or forget about labels for a while, and see it as putting your body in unnecessary stress, inducing physiological havoc with your heart rate and blood pressure, risking all sorts of complications. And all that to remember a psychedelic experience better.

To me, that does not sound right. It almost sounds irresponsible (the action, not the person).

 

[sØrce]

Or forget about labels for a while, and see it as putting your body in unnecessary stress, inducing physiological havoc with your heart rate and blood pressure, risking all sorts of complications. And all that to remember a psychedelic experience better.

To me, that does not sound right. It almost sounds irresponsible (the action, not the person).

Not to be contentious, but if all that was one's outlook, then wouldn't the DMT trip itself be contraindicated and avoided at all costs?

I was sort of under the impression that the hypnotist could manage the stress level through the same suggestibility that either recalls the memory or influences its creation, but I am unsure.

Once again I wish to avoid any argument, only open-mindedly wondering about this idea and its actual physiological implications.

 

[The Neural]

You're absolutely right with the idea. However, the state of hypnosis is not comparable with the state that DMT produces. The BP and HR elevation are slight (and shorter) under DMT than under hypnosis (especially during the re-visitation of an intense event). To top that, the physiological responses elicited by DMT are somewhat uniform (they die down with certainty), while under hypnosis this might not be the case. The state of hypnosis may be more comparable with a trip on deliriants, than with DMT (just my opinion).

 

[sØrce]

Interesting! I see what you are saying.

Thanks so much for your reply. I've really enjoyed your posts and can see that you are very intelligent and informed in a lot of areas. It's my pleasure to interact with you. Thanks.

Peace,
Ø

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Or forget about labels for a while, and see it as putting your body in unnecessary stress, inducing physiological havoc with your heart rate and blood pressure, risking all sorts of complications. And all that to remember a psychedelic experience better.

To me, that does not sound right. It almost sounds irresponsible (the action, not the person).

Hypnosis, at least the kind of hypnosis that I do doesn't seem to have a tremendous amount of effect on heartrate and blood pressure, apart from lowering it. Most people, when they enter sleep trance heart-rate and breathing-rates tend to drop, although is cases of induced panic attacks and dissociation, I have seen heart rates go through the roof.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Infectedstyle]

What interests me is the psychological break-down that occurs in the first 10 seconds of a DMT experience. When i smoke dmt it seems to rush through undealt with aspects of my psyche. Fears, uncertainties etc. I would like to remember this stuff. I think a really good hypnosis session will be able to bring me back to one of those images and possibly allow me to dissect them better. If it can show me one image.. Perhaps it will trigger the next memory. etc. etc. and propell me right into hyperspace. (i use this term loosely)

It starts to sound more like a shamanic practice from this perspective. I guess that's why i say, don't look at it as regression and more like a lucid dream. The one receiving this kind of hypnosis HAS to have a good controlled breathing. An unbreakable mind. And atleast some kind of guardian angel. You know, just in case.

Some memories of psychedelic hallucinations i have are vague. And extremely scary at the time. I think there's a reason some visions are shortlived. In a lot of ways we are much better off just consuming dmt. Without the protection of this molecule we are on our own...

I guess this brings me back to my last trip. In this "enlightened" state, it came to me that i could prolong this state for as long as i want to. But the molecule wore off and i gradually regained awareness. If i induced this state naturally, i think it would be an entirely different story. (not to mention it was also difficult)

Sorry if i'm derailing this thread, but i think this poses an interesting possibility. It is probably good to mention, i have yet to try an MAOI to prolong the experience.

 

[sØrce]

I wanted to share that once I saw a really good hypnotist hypnotize a group of college students about 15 years ago...

Jan 29, 2006, 12:03 AM
I just got back from a hypnotism show by James Mapes (http://www.jamesmapes.com/) a pretty big name guy in the hypnotism world, who does a lot of hypnotism-as-entertainment shows for colleges and universities, as well as motivational speaking for big corporations.

^James Mapes show full description by a hypnotized subject
James Mapes website

^That's not my post but it's a really good description of the show...

I saw him a few years in a row. Unfortunately I wasn't suggestible enough to end up on the stage with the 50 or so people out of the crowd of about 500 who were. If I was I would have been subjected to all kinds of crazy stuff, like past-life regression, current-life regression, seemingly-impossible suggestions and my favorite part which went something like this:

"WHEN I SNAP MY FINGERS YOU WILL BE AS HIGH AS YOU HAVE EVER BEEN IN YOUR LIFE!!!!"

Depending on the range of experiences of the subject (real-life usage) they would be either drunk as can be, incredibly stoned, high on acid, mushrooms, cocaine, pills or what have you. These were college kids so acid was really about the most extreme of their experiences.

Extrapolating from this, I'd think that if you've smoked DMT, you can either have a DMT experience suggested to you or recall one, either on the spot or through regression. I think it's an interesting idea, and one could most likely pause and play the experience through and report on it on the spot, or have the idea suggested that they will recall the entire experience upon emerging from the regression/suggestion. I couldn't say for sure whether portions of the trip not recalled in the first place could be recovered by hypnosis but it sure seems likely.

James Mapes is a cool guy. I am going to email him this thread and see what he says.

He left us with this tidbit: "Drugs can expand your mind but your mind can take you higher and further than any drug ever can...."

I guess he is suggesting that hypnosis can make you feel more euphoria than drugs, or more (however you want to feel) than any drug, but it seems less likely that you can experience hallucinations as complicated as interactions with entities through suggestion that you haven't seen before, based on what I know, but I can't really say for sure. Just a hunch.

I don't think he is a member of the Nexus, but I'd vote him in any day. Outside of that idea, I hope he responds to my email and I'll cut and paste his reply to the thread.

I lucid dreamed "hallucinations" that I've never seen before, unless I forgot portions of my ketamine trips, but I am reasonably sure that I had never, ever seen these particular visions, as insignificant overall as they were, they were geometrically and aesthetically perfect creations of my subconscious.

Two nights ago I was dreaming when I found myself flying through a hyperspace! Colors were predominantly blue and green, with some yellow pink and purples. I was within a place that I sensed was very much alive, and on the perimeters everywhere was a kind of life that was spongy and familiar as aquatic. Closer to my field of vision were floating polyhedrons of various sizes and distances with straight extensions that were like tentacles, but not flexing. Single units of the life that I was flying within, I was able to know directly somehow... The general shape was like this but the whole thing had a starfish or octopus-like nature. It sort of blub-blubbed but wasn't really active.

So all that happened in the dream was I said, "WOW I MUST BE DREAMING I'M ON DMT!!!"

FAIL. I woke up completely from the dream and sat up in my bed. I was super-excited though, I've never ever dreamed I was in a hyperspace. I've flown, I've not been under water or many other unusual states during dreaming.

I'm kind of in the school of thinking that if you can access your mind directly, drugs are not really necessary (or even desirable), but that's just an opinion. I'm surprised to find the idea well-received and discussed on this site on one hand, on the other hand the range of thinking and expanded perception on the site is the reason I'm here so it doesn't surprise me much at all.

I know that Nathaniel has been doing work with hypnosis but James Mapes has been doing this for probably 50 years. It's likely that if you check out his site you can find a date that he will be at a university in your state or area sometime during the regular university school year...

Well I just checked out his website- it seems he doesn't do group hypnosis anymore, in favor of motivational speaking. But check out this clip of a portion of his hypnotism act on youtube. It is truly amazing stuff.

I'm gonna email him the link to this thread and ask him directly if he knows if such a hypnotism feat is possible. I have a feeling he has actual experience with this kind of regression/suggestion and the ideas being discussed here.

The shows were amazing, one of the coolest live performances I've ever seen.

Update: Email sent.. with a bit of luck (he's a really busy guy, I think he may spend about half of his life in hotels, or did at some point) within a short amount of time I might be able to share his answers here...

Dear Sir,

I saw your group-hypnosis show 15+ years ago at the University of Connecticut and was nothing but floored by what I saw.

My friends and I were discussing the possibility of hypnotizing a subject who has formerly had a very intense psychedelic drug experience, specifically a "breakthrough" experience (beyond perception of this reality into a "hyperspace" of sorts where only consciousness and its creations or the perception of the subconscious is accessed) through smoking dimethyltryptamine (DMT). We were wondering, without any real way of answering, if the following sorts of experiences are possible through hypnosis:

* Can the subject "relive" entire psychedelic experiences that are originally beyond the perceptions of the body? What if the experiences are not entirely recalled in the first place, are they stored in the subconscious and accessible through recall?
* Can the experiences be replayed and stopped, described fully, and complete recall be suggested?
* Could a psychedelic experience be suggested to the subject that differs from what has already been experienced?
* Is it possible for intensely stressful perceptions to occur through hypnosis, or can these types of reactions be controlled by the hypnotist?


Considering the range and depth of your experiences with hypnotism and the mind, I am extremely thankful for any time and consideration you can give to help us understand the nuances of this line of thinking.

Here is a link to the thread I am referring to specifically on the forum:

Regression hypnosis to recall and relive hyperspace as the 3rd person/entity? - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

And here is a link to the homepage if you want to peruse the forum:

Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

DMT-Nexus, for all your information on DMT, Ayahuasca and the sorts...

www.dmt-nexus.me

Anyone can view the threads, however one would have to be a member to post to the forum directly. It would be outstanding if you decided to be a member; I think you would really enjoy some of the discussion of conscious states that occur there. However, considering how busy you are, with your permission I would like to cut and paste your reply to the forum if you do find the time and are able to reply.

Thanks again for any sort of answers or experiences you can share that are related to these questions. I still think of you whenever I bite into a lemon (a handful of times a year).

Best Regards,
[snip]

 

[Global]

You're absolutely right with the idea. However, the state of hypnosis is not comparable with the state that DMT produces. The BP and HR elevation are slight (and shorter) under DMT than under hypnosis (especially during the re-visitation of an intense event). To top that, the physiological responses elicited by DMT are somewhat uniform (they die down with certainty), while under hypnosis this might not be the case. The state of hypnosis may be more comparable with a trip on deliriants, than with DMT (just my opinion).

I'm just curious, have you undergone hypnosis yourself? It sounds like you have some experience with it.

 

[Metanoia]

Part of the reason I have held off on participating in any sort of hypnosis is because of the false memories that can surface and the physiological dangers. I'm in very good health and could more than likely handle it, but it still causes me concern.

Especially the false memories and cryptomnesia. I'm most interested in past life regression and with something like that, how are you to know if what you "remembered" was real or just a fantasy created by your mind? I've been on the fence about this one for a while now.

All that said, I think using hypnosis to recall a psychedelic experience may be much similar to something like past life regression. Who knows what you'll experience/remember, and if it is actually a recalled memory or just an elaborate fiction your mind has spun.

 

[The Neural]

I'm just curious, have you undergone hypnosis yourself? It sounds like you have some experience with it.

Unfortunately I have not. I find it very interesting and I have studied quite a lot on the subject, and of course attempted to explain it (or just understand it) from a neuropsychological perspective.

Hypnosis, at least the kind of hypnosis that I do doesn't seem to have a tremendous amount of effect on heartrate and blood pressure, apart from lowering it. Most people, when they enter sleep trance heart-rate and breathing-rates tend to drop, although is cases of induced panic attacks and dissociation, I have seen heart rates go through the roof.

While I agree with you on the lowered BP and HR (during the beginning of the subjection), it may be unknown what will cause the individual to get into a panic attack. I think the chances are much higher than a psychedelic experience. Either way, now that I am thinking about it, you guys may be right; if one is to venture with DMT or any other committing substance, why not perform something similar through hypnosis? Bottom line is, I'd rather trust in a substance and accept its unpredictability, than trust in a stranger whose unpredictability could be never mapped out for me beforehand. And I will be paying him dearly for that, financially and emotionally (got nothing against hypnotists btw, just expressing my position)

 

[Creo]

A hypnotic trance is induced through a process of deep relaxation of the mind and body, which ofcourse lowers heart rate and blood pressure.

Self hypnosis works well for things like quitting smoking or insomnia, so it might work for memory retrieval as well. You would have to record your own hypnotic induction though, I don't think anything generic would suffice.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Hypnosis, at least the kind of hypnosis that I do doesn't seem to have a tremendous amount of effect on heartrate and blood pressure, apart from lowering it. Most people, when they enter sleep trance heart-rate and breathing-rates tend to drop, although is cases of induced panic attacks and dissociation, I have seen heart rates go through the roof.

While I agree with you on the lowered BP and HR (during the beginning of the subjection), it may be unknown what will cause the individual to get into a panic attack. I think the chances are much higher than a psychedelic experience. Either way, now that I am thinking about it, you guys may be right; if one is to venture with DMT or any other committing substance, why not perform something similar through hypnosis? Bottom line is, I'd rather trust in a substance and accept its unpredictability, than trust in a stranger whose unpredictability could be never mapped out for me beforehand. And I will be paying him dearly for that, financially and emotionally (got nothing against hypnotists btw, just expressing my position)

That's why I always tell people to go to a hypnotist that they trust, and try to avoid doing deep hypnosis work with people that I don't know very well. For party hypnosis, it's a little less stringent, but that's because there are (in my experience), really two types of hypnosis, and part of being a good hypnotist is understanding very quickly how your subject is reacting, and then reacting accordingly yourself.

The first is what I call 'shallow' or 'false' hypnosis. This is what MOST people go into when you do an ordinary induction, and the state that most stage hypnotists create. In this state, the subject is relaxed and essentially given permission to act crazy. When you see people crawl around pretending to be a cat, they are usually in 'shallow hypnosis.' They retain awareness of who they are and what is happening, they simply decide to play along with the hypnotists suggestions because they are suggestible, and doing so usually gets them positive attention. The fact that they have no perceived responsibility for their actions ("it was hypnotized, it wasn't my fault!") makes it extra easy for them to act strange or off the wall, to everyone's amusement.
Actors tend to fall into this state really quickly, as they are used to performing, and it's all about convincing yourself that something is happening, not any real neurological phenomena.

The second is what I call 'deep,' 'true,' or 'abnormal,' hypnosis. This is much rarer, and it seems to me that only some people are susceptible enough to fall into this state. People who fall into 'deep hypnosis,' tend to have extremely powerful emotional reactions that can be hard to predict. Very often they will NOT remember large chunks of the experience. These are the people you should watch out for. These people are more likely to experience hallucinations, panic attacks, episodes of acute dissociation or psychotic breaks.

If you want to use hypnosis to change someones perception of reality (induce synesthesia, hallucinations, dream recall etc), this is where you have to go.

Abnormal reactions tend to occur primarily in people who have a history of trauma, but can also manifest in individuals prone to psychosis. My personal pet theory about why this is is that when the brain is in sleep trance, emotional regulatory action by the brain is damped, and so if problematic memories arise, the brain is unequipped to deal with them, triggering a panic or psychotic reaction.

I have seen REALLY scary things happen when people abreact (abreact is a short term for abnormal reaction or aberrant reaction). People start crying, panicking, become delusional, or manifest entirely different personalities. Very often they won't remember these episodes afterwards. I myself tend to abreact in certain circumstances, so most people refuse to hypnotize me anymore (which is sad, because I enjoyed the hallucinations).

All of this has gotten WAY off topic, but, The Neural is right to not trust his brain with a strange person, because really strange stuff can go down.

Blessings
~ND (party and therapeutic hypnotist)

 

[Metanoia]

Something I watched recently that might interest some people also interested in this thread. It has actual footage from the hypnosis sessions and it's really....creepy. To say the least.

The Fourth Kind - Wikipedia

 

[The Neural]

Something I watched recently that might interest some people also interested in this thread. It has actual footage from the hypnosis sessions and it's really....creepy. To say the least.

The Fourth Kind - Wikipedia

Unfortunately, all footage (and the documentary itself) was scripted. Nothing real in it.

 

[Metanoia]

Even if it it's all fictional, it still creeped me right out

 

[The Neural]

Even if it it's all fictional, it still creeped me right out

Oh absolutely, I could not believe it was scripted even when I was reading that it was.

Great cast, amazing performances.