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Relationship between Breakthrough and Syncope?

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NikkiPotnick1981

NikkiPotnick1981

Rising Star
I've had something weird happen with me for about 10 years now. I've always been terrified of vomiting. I have no idea why. Im not at a all afraid of it until im about to vomit. From a very young age until about 25 years old, I never vomited. After this long lapse in time, one day when I got ill and I'd feel vomit coming on I'd go to the washroom in panic and within a minute I'd pass out. The doctors chalked this up to be vasovagal syncope. Which I believe means a blood pressure drop. Some people get it from the sight of blood.

www.mayoclinic.org

Vasovagal syncope - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org www.mayoclinic.org

en.wikipedia.org

Reflex syncope - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Now, I havent had an episode from being ill and passing out in about 2 years.... Except I did a few months ago when I had a very large DMT dose. It was my 5th time using DMT and I got cocky and took a 60mg rip in one dab rig hit. It was far too intense and I panicked. I ripped off my blind fold tying to leave this intense trip. I flopped on the floor like a possessed mad man. I tried to climb outta my own body. Tried to climb the walls. I couldn't let go. At one point I passed out cold. Then woke up and continued to freak out. 10 minutes later I lay on the floor with my head in my gfs lap, clammy, broken and soaked in sweat, struggling to grasp what had just happened. I couldn't talk. I was in utter disbelief at how powerful the medicine was. I just kept saying, "wow...wow....wow...." until about 30 minutes later I had the energy to get up. It destroyed me.

Smaller DMT doses I dont get it at all. But larger doses I run into this problem. Even 1 tab of LSD (first time a couple weeks ago) sent me into this very light headed space. I needed to get to the ground as I thought I was breaking through momentarily. Turns out it was a false alarm and I felt fine after. I wasn't panicky in that moment. Me and my gf were just laughing enjoying our trip and then boom, I was overcome by this feeling of my body shutting down. It was mid peak.

Does anyone know of any relationship between breaking through and syncope? Or perhaps psychedelics and blood pressure dropping to where I'm nearly passing out. I'm wondering if the syncope is getting in my way to breakthrough or is it related and a right of passage almost?

I do believe that breaking through can be achieved without substance from deep meditative states. In fact I can quite easily get to the office of the BT and im gripped with fear as I stay there. Its far too hard to consciously make the decision to take the leap of faith and die. I've hung out in that office feeling utter love emulating from the darkness that separated me from the spirit world. I knew if I went there I'd not want to come back. But still couldn't jump.

One thing that is interesting that I've experience, I sometimes nearly trigger a syncope episode from deep meditation. As I get too deep, I snap awake gasping for breath and quite startled. (I need a little weed to get very deep). As if its a defence mechanism to disallow me to go too deep before I am ready? I'm told that Jiddu Krishnamurdi had this issue of passing out as a child when he would meditate. Perhaps this is natures way of telling us that we arent ready to see the other side? I hope people arent thinking that I believe Im in any way like Krishnamurdi Lolol. Just an example to support my question of a physical issue upon reaching different states of consciousness.

Thoughts?
 
Nothing wrong with Krishnamurti! He was a very wise and peaceful man! I think he is someone to point to when talking about meditation and escaping the social constructs we are all indoctrinated into in this odd world we live in.

Lowest common denominator here is fear. My advice is to face it. Put yourself into these fearful scenarios more and more and they will become something else entirely. There has to be a place in your mind where you just have the courage to face what you fear. To place it aside. It sounds like you could work on this by simply meditating and waiting for the kneejerk reaction to start taking hold and then go into that feeling and offer yourself some strength and courage.

I would recommend someone who is afraid of spiders to go and hold a tarantula. Look at it and try and see past the fear of it. Look how beautiful the spider is! Someone who is afraid of heights... go and stand near a cliffs edge and see past the fear and appreciate the wonderful vista. Etc.. etc.. etc..

Be careful confronting your fear.. I mean don't pass out and fall off the cliff so to speak. Tread carefully and take baby steps. Do it in a way where you are exposed to your fear just a little at a time. Each time face it just a little more with a conscious mind of courage.
 
I had similar experiences on my last two times with DMT.

I felt light-headed, weak, dizzy, and yeah cold-sweating as though I'm about to faint.

I used to faint a lot as a teenager so I remember the feeling well.

I think it's fear related, but I am gonna get my blood pressure checked to be on the safe side. It does feel during the trip there is some kind of 'drop' of blood pressure or blood sugar or something.

I have very high anxiety/depression generally because of life events recently so it may be related to that. Do you have anxiety? I'm sure I've read somewhere that anxiety can be related to blood pressure.

xx
 
This is almost certainly a vasovagal.
Vasovagals can happen for a variety of reasons including;
Intense pain, intense fear, receiving shocking news, sight of blood or terrible injuries/trauma, sudden shift in consciousness, and my favourite, taking a dump (in the geriatric population especially).

It's an inbuilt protective meachanism we all have.

In your case, it's probably due to sudden change in consciousness and associated fear,
I have observed or heard of first hand accounts of vasovagals in response to many different mind altering substances. Not uncommon.

The best fix has already been laid out by dmnstr8, that is, conditioning or exposure therapy.
Repeat the experience, at first at a lower dose, in an environment where you are safe and no harm can come to you, that is, lying down with someone watching over you. It also helps going in with the mindset, "if I pass out, no harm will come if it, I'll simply wake up after".

Hope that helps.
 
leratiomyces said:
This is almost certainly a vasovagal.
Vasovagals can happen for a variety of reasons including;
Intense pain, intense fear, receiving shocking news, sight of blood or terrible injuries/trauma, sudden shift in consciousness, and my favourite, taking a dump (in the geriatric population especially).

It's an inbuilt protective meachanism we all have.

In your case, it's probably due to sudden change in consciousness and associated fear,
I have observed or heard of first hand accounts of vasovagals in response to many different mind altering substances. Not uncommon.

The best fix has already been laid out by dmnstr8, that is, conditioning or exposure therapy.
Repeat the experience, at first at a lower dose, in an environment where you are safe and no harm can come to you, that is, lying down with someone watching over you. It also helps going in with the mindset, "if I pass out, no harm will come if it, I'll simply wake up after".

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you leratiomyces, that does help! I'd never heard that term before but I just looked it up and it seems to make sense. I've also had this reaction in response to seeing blood in the past and when witnessing violence etc.

And yes I plan to follow dmnstr8's advice with my sister sitting for me and increasing the dosage veerrrry slowly.

:thumb_up:
 
Tara123 said:
And thank you NikkiPotnick1981 for posting this. Sorry haha I didn't mean to take over your thread! :lol:
Click to expand...

no worries. This is all great info! So has your dizzy spells restrict you from breaking through? Or is it just something you deal with on DMT?
 
leratiomyces said:
This is almost certainly a vasovagal.
Vasovagals can happen for a variety of reasons including;
Intense pain, intense fear, receiving shocking news, sight of blood or terrible injuries/trauma, sudden shift in consciousness, and my favourite, taking a dump (in the geriatric population especially).

It's an inbuilt protective meachanism we all have.

In your case, it's probably due to sudden change in consciousness and associated fear,
I have observed or heard of first hand accounts of vasovagals in response to many different mind altering substances. Not uncommon.

The best fix has already been laid out by dmnstr8, that is, conditioning or exposure therapy.
Repeat the experience, at first at a lower dose, in an environment where you are safe and no harm can come to you, that is, lying down with someone watching over you. It also helps going in with the mindset, "if I pass out, no harm will come if it, I'll simply wake up after".

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. Im wondering tho, why on LSD the other day, I was totally fine, happy, talking to my gf... and then I was overcome with the fainting feeling out of nowhere. There was no fear or anxiety. I was really in bliss to be honest. I wonder if these psych's are causing a drop in blood pressure without even having the anxiety or negative thoughts.

And so I agree that the intense anxiety of the situation is the culprit in most cases, but there are isolated incidences where Im about to pass out while happier than a pig in shyt... so to speak lol.
 
NikkiPotnick1981 said:
.

And so I agree that the intense anxiety of the situation is the culprit in most cases, but there are isolated incidences where Im about to pass out while happier than a pig in shyt... so to speak lol.
Click to expand...


Yes, I've heard of this occurring before and I can't give you a certain answer, only my theory.
I think while consciously you are happier than a pig in mud, on an unconscious level, something in the experience develops, at that moment, that is not palatable to the ego. So it does its thing - "abort, abort"! And shuts you down. This thought or concern, may not even fully reach consciousness for you to register or remember it.
Remember that the defence mechanism of passing out is operating on a subconscious level. That's why you have no conscious control of it.
The best you can do is try to think back to the very moment before you passed out and think about what Was going through your mind at that moment. Sometimes you'll come up with the answer. The sentiment that challenged your ego.

The literature is very clear of the effect of lsd, psilocybin and dmt on blood pressure. They all increase blood pressure, not decrease it. You have not passed out due to lsd directly lowering your blood pressure.

For the record, On various forums, I sometimes see people blame low blood sugar for passing out during a trip. This is utter garbage, unless you're an insulin dependent diabetic and injecting an inappropriate dose of insulin.
 
leratiomyces said:
NikkiPotnick1981 said:
.

And so I agree that the intense anxiety of the situation is the culprit in most cases, but there are isolated incidences where Im about to pass out while happier than a pig in shyt... so to speak lol.
Click to expand...


Yes, I've heard of this occurring before and I can't give you a certain answer, only my theory.
I think while consciously you are happier than a pig in mud, on an unconscious level, something in the experience develops, at that moment, that is not palatable to the ego. So it does its thing - "abort, abort"! And shuts you down. This thought or concern, may not even fully reach consciousness for you to register or remember it.
Remember that the defence mechanism of passing out is operating on a subconscious level. That's why you have no conscious control of it.
The best you can do is try to think back to the very moment before you passed out and think about what Was going through your mind at that moment. Sometimes you'll come up with the answer. The sentiment that challenged your ego.

The literature is very clear of the effect of lsd, psilocybin and dmt on blood pressure. They all increase blood pressure, not decrease it. You have not passed out due to lsd directly lowering your blood pressure.

For the record, On various forums, I sometimes see people blame low blood sugar for passing out during a trip. This is utter garbage, unless you're an insulin dependent diabetic and injecting an inappropriate dose of insulin.
Click to expand...

very informative. I believe you are right when you say there is an unconscious abort button being pressed. I wonder (if I just let myself pass out), when I wake up, do you think I'd be on the other side? Or Would you think the passing out would destroy my state of mind to where I'd otherwise be broken through. One thing that is interesting, when I needed to hit the ground on LSD the other day, I did so, laid on the blanket, accepted that I would "die" and realized I was totally fine. The acceptance of it took me out of the spiralling feeling.

Another thing that is interesting for me, I've mixed MDMA and cannabis in a very intense environment, and I get stuck in this VERY strange state of mind where Im almost in a trance. Im so present in that moment that Im free of thought. Im literally just as a tree lives. I cant really move. It feel as if My eyes are rolled in the back of my head, I feel as though Im not listening to music but I am the music. Its a wonderful feeling. Atleast 3 times someone had to approach me asking if I was ok... I snapped back into reality and said, "ya im great" and they nodded and walked away.

There is a relationship between that blissful feeling and the feeling I get as I take large doses of DMT. Although there is no panic or anxiety with the MDMA/cannabis.
 
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