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Report : Epileptic crisis on DMT - ayahuasca

Migrated topic.

Quetzal7

Esteemed member
Context : Mimohuasca in the Red-Wood (mimosa + Caapi + little chacruna), follow by mushroom and a pipe of changa for my friend

Who : A good old friend -Isaya - came to visit me in California; And another local friend - Blumix - who was asking me to help him take ayahuasca - he is seriously ill with HIV and lot-s of pains.
They are both all aware of the plants,and are working with them for years

It’s a reduces version of my notes… Way more happened but it would be too long…

———————————-

We cook at home the magic, prepare all we need, and left with my car to The REDWOOD.

We enter the forest at night, feeling the giants trees, we picknick with the darkness; such a powerfull place. I don’t really sleep, i have a really strange night, working on relaxing all my body, entering in orgasm

In the morning, we walk deeper in the forest. We look for a big hollow tree where we could make a ceremony; we walk out of path sometimes, and we are like Alice eating mushroom, so smaaaal, drawn into the ferns, with insanely big trees, looking for a rabbit hole to enter,…

We prepare a Sigil to crystalize our intention into a symbol, and pass it into the subcouscious during the ceremony.

We found The Place, with a gigantic tronk falled , suspended above us as a roof, big roots coming evrywhere, surrounded by giant trees. This is our ceremony spot! just too perfect !
We clean the space with palo santo, organize the space, make an altar…

The ceremony.
We drink our first time. (hard to say, about 45g caapi + 5g mimosa)
Isaya plays guitar - and this made my trip
For me it was easy. I got a little body load, then… quickly, … coming… the powerfull light of healing, the love of Pachamama, The grand mother ,abuelita , open, accept me, work with me; this irradiant light inside vaporize anything entering the halo, Amor Amor Amor. Compassion. Simple words but radiating deep, powerfull meaning. Words use as sacred tools.
I pull the Tarot Cart. I got the hangman as main cart, Listening, Learning; i open totally to this energy.
I got also vision of life, death transcdance; huge healing with my wife, more awareness about our soon to be born baby, and so much , so much love !


Blumix start purging, he cries, i help him. He has much to face, life and death issue; So much… i could not enter in details.

My ayahuasca experience come and go, but really subttle, even if i took 2nd then 3rd time … It seems the trip just lasted the first 30 minutes, i got what i needed at the beginning… not much more.
And i got no body load, i feel amazing ; i thanks the plant for her cooperation
After maybe 3 hours
Isaya take some mushroom chocolate instead of more ayahusca
I end up taking mushroom too, after some hours , to continue the story
But they didn’t nearly made effect - something strange was happening. Even after 4grams of mushroom… on top of the caapi… nothing…

Blumix work through many things, express big challenge in life ; a whole session is goin on
I listen extremly carefully, i feel a great compasion ; what is said is not easy to say, neither to listen. Life is hard bitch. His mother hated him, he got lost in his life, fall into drugs, then rised again… but now he is really sick with HIV, just when he started to enjoy life… Does he want to surrender to destiny or fight for life, for survival ? What is this all about?
He spoke a really long time, slowly, releasing each word-emotion, both of us suspended to his lips, seeing through his heart.


The Changa
Blumix ask for some changa. I accept to give him - even if i feel it could be quite strong at this point of course… He is 38 years old adult, i let him judge of course.

Blumix smoke changa. Slowly, more and more, in about 5 minute he take many small tokes. Silence in the forest. But at the end he finish the pipe with a big toke

i m not sure i want to tell what happened

just thinking about it my heart go wild
..
He just exploded, first in a hardcore sounds channeling - i found it pasionating, extremly creativ and strange, out of space langage… but then …

Then convulsional, chamanik, terrific, exessif, ultimatly alien then out of any spectrum of whatever you would ever be able to classified. Organic life being able of this????an event at the border of life and death, a glitch of Death-by-Chaos into our life ; A storm, a hurricane, the altar, evrything get crushed, the candles fall downed, nearly catching on fire the altar, i blow them, it’s all dark and ,
the ultimate Eppileptic-DMT crysis is goin on and on and on… the sound is freezing me in ultimate astonishment, so loud (nothing like this has ever been recorded on earth), he is convulsing on the ground so strongly that his whole body jump out of the ground, branches exploding evrywhere. RHAAAAAAAAAAAA it was really too crazy.

Then… followed by 10 infinite minutes of death silence. He is DEAD. We just more shock than ever in our life. I’m too afraid to go to see if he is still breathing

A last convulsion seems to reanimate him. He is back, breathing, eyes open.
With no idea about anything happening ; we are just 2 aliens trying to explain him it’s OK, our face still shaking of fear. He doesn’t even know if he is alive.

We face a great moment of ultimate confusion, being as lovely and gentle as possible ; He came back, and he came back with this question : What is life ? It took us a great amount of confusion and care to calm down and relax. He didn’t remember anything, not even who he is, not even where we are… who we are…

Then…
We investigate, in a crescendo theatre, the essence of Life , the energy rise up in laughing, in interest, curiosity, doubt and seducing ideas. He come back slowly to trust us (and maybe to remember we are his friend)

I come finally with my answer
Under the small light of a candle, on my knees, i start reading, word by word, a poem : The Snake of Light

And i enter in trance, purely on the moment, discovering each word as it was coming as a surprise, but that fit perfectly my expression

The Snake Of Light

I m the Crack in the wall, the Lizard sneaking between the bricks, the Nature recovering its rights
- there's always a path for the light *

I m the Opening of the egg from Inside to Outside - I m This Moment, ready to get born.

I m the Open lips inviting the orgasmic creation, the self-replication, the transcendence of duality in Unity - for the 3rd to become. Boum,Boum. I m Rythm of Life, space between the notes, Cosmic Trance-and-Dance!

I m the Swing - the slight delaying, the allowed desires stretching reality; Breaking sharp angles of square minds; I m the water sinking through the rocks as the spring always has to flow.

I m the Glitch in the Matrix, the perfect Imperfection; The Singularity of the fractal blowing your mind, the Zero Point of the Spiral - Open future - Everything is Maybe...

I m the Universe as an ejaculation through all emptiness, Opening the potential for everything to happen, Exploring all possibilities of Existence -

I m the Resonance of Chaos, Emerging out of the primordial Magma, out of slime and confusion -
I m the Kingdom of Impermanency, of the Mystery - The Unknown as Only rule.

I m a Movement, an unbalanced Dynamic towards Harmony; an infinite Loop between the Mirrors of reality - only in the true reflection of yourself you can see the Light.

I m Lightnings of Athena - I m the Androgynous Pure heart, the Warrior of the Light getting Alive. I m Individuality, discernment, Wise Open Eyes
- I m Affirmation of Myself -
- I m FREEDOM itself -

I blow my own mind, and the ones of my friends
I became extatic.it was really my answer to all of this
Blumix said “ it was the most beautifull thing i ever eared in my life” ;


I start rolling a joint... finally let's relax...
But i see a strange thing in the fire… the fire is sinking inside the ground, and roots are on fire, deep inside the earth
It’s a small fire, it’s ok… but we have nearly no more water and we defintly have to stop this potential desaster …
Just a little bit of this panic feeling, we work on the problem diging, removing bunring part, sacrifying water…. we nearly out of danger. but it’s still hot and smokey, and i m becoming really tired now of all this dramas, i got paranoid
I nearly cry on the fire, with my hands in the ashes trying my best, i even burn my finger
I sacrified the last of the ayahuasca teas, to safe the forest ; powerfull psychomagic symbolic act. We puted down the crazy fire…

Big Conclusion.
We have to be more careful. That’s a big teaching about carefulness. There’s so much we have no clue about, so much precious things we don’t even know how they work, and we can be so harmfull, so careless, so unaware, we can destroy in an instant things that are the result of way greater inteligent, of thousands of year of evolution : life, nature…

We got protected by my wife meditating for us, our own intentions and focus, and also by
Temperance, the cart i picked as an ally that was a great presence to overcome this challenge. All mean to be of course.

We went back to shasta the next day, digesting this intense redwood experience…


For the nexusians : This epileptic crisis was really the weirdest thing i ever saw. The guy is eppileptic and he said sometime it’s hapening to him… but with DMT it’s different. It's not just convulsion, it's a whole Sound channeling experience. He consider that it is important thing for him, it’s a big readjustment of energy, a big spiritual experience for him - but he was also feeling guilty he scared us to death.

He was at a point in life where he was questionning if he want to fight the sickness, and accept to go through long term pains, or surrender. He didn’t get a clear answer though… but the epileptic crisis was definitly at the border between the Life Pulsion and the Death pulsion…

I beleive that’s the reason the mushroom didn’t worked at all; i had to be lucid to go through THAT.

Do we have to prepare to the eventuality of eppilectic crisis on DMT? Could this be deadful? What to do? Would you ask to the person that smoke with you if they are epileptic?
I beleive it is a topic for me now….. if this would have happened with a newbie , it could have been traumatizing for sure.


My friend is now ok, in the next month he had up and down but his mind keep strong, and he clearly choosed to battle for life. He found some alternatif treatment for the HIV that seems to work - instead of the official medicine that are really heavy for his body. I was septical, and nothing is still for sure, but he is doing better….. it’s another big topic…
 
Maybe that is a little bit too much details (i'm still getting use to the style and customs of the forum) for you to read all of it ?

Nevertheless, is anybody aware of Epileptic crisis and DMT consume? Did you saw or heard about that before ? Is this ultimatly an issue ?
 
Most def an interesting read.

I'm left to make up some stories in my head about this narrative. Intezam and your own prose seem to indicate what he experienced was not actually in epileptic seizure but rather a reaction that was induced by his psychological makeup in regards to the issues that he was facing.

I myself have experienced what might look like convulsive symptoms deep in a breakthrough that is disconcerting to observe from a distance. DNT often causes myself and other people to arrange their bodies in a certain peculiar fashion. I have my own personal theories about this involving "bodily circuitry".

At first in your story, it sounded like your friend had no awareness or recollection of what he went through during his break through. Later on though it sounds as if he was. It makes it a little bit unclear. While this is a very interesting story and your style of prose also entertaining, perhaps it would be best to use terms as they were meant to be used to alleviate any confusion. If you use terms like epilepsy, people will think that it's a potential side effect of using DMT
 
Ok sorry for some unclear parts - english is not my first language

My friend said it's a seizure - he got several of them in the past, but it didn't happened in some years. Maybe this was a little bit different, i agree. It was probably worst.
it was a pure uncontroled and convulsive process - for sure nothing you would ever expect from just the effect of dmt.
It seems he came back all at once - as if he was possessed for a moment - and he could not remember what happened - he had no idea where he was ( a comon effect of DMT, but here it was somehow different. He told us that in past seizure, it's always what happen too.).
I know that's tricky because we are speaking of DMT - you don't need to trust me. Personaly, i don't dare to draw any conclusion - yes i think DMT trigered this seizure - and it was possibly life-threatening - but this guy is a little bit a special case, so...

He was not taking any other medication at the time - he started to take again "official medicine" only after the travel (he wanted to be carefull with the use of the IMAO of course)

I asked him to be carefull while smoking - better not to smoke with beginners - seeing this happening while tripping yourself could be quite traumatic experience, i guarantee it!
 
Quetzal7 said:
yes i think DMT trigered this seizure - and it was possibly life-threatening

Yes, it might have been a seizure. But also consider this: people with history of *opiate abuse sometimes use benzodiazepines casually and they (sometimes) have their own fatalistic rationale of what's safe and true and all...even years after

The tricky thing about benzodiazepines is: If someone was taking them regular and then, for the ceremony, he/she stops taking them (for 3-4 days) , it would then be enough to close his/her eyes and breathe heavily for a couple of secs to trigger a full blown seizure.

These are known as benzodiazepine withdrawal seizures

With regard to epilepsy, we (the intezam) have epilepsy ourselves, and DMT alone has never triggered a seizure and neither has rue, spice or caapi or the two combined.

With such a friend, if you have to, also consider drinking brew in the city.....and be his/her sober sitter. 😉


*blind guess
 
He has an history of abuse with opiates, but this is 5 years ago (Iboga got him out of the black hole)

Anyway i don't think we can reach any conclusion at this point - all we know is "this" happened -
With this particular friend, i would work carefully in the future. No point to make a global warning on seizure and DMT of course - but maybe investigate it - maybe some other case show up ... (but seizure are a really mysterious thing aren't they ? )
 
Intezam said:
Quetzal7 said:
yes i think DMT trigered this seizure - and it was possibly life-threatening

Yes, it might have been a seizure. But also consider this: people with history of *opiate abuse sometimes use benzodiazepines casually and they (sometimes) have their own fatalistic rationale of what's safe and true and all...even years after

The tricky thing about benzodiazepines is: If someone was taking them regular and then, for the ceremony, he/she stops taking them (for 3-4 days) , it would then be enough to close his/her eyes and breathe heavily for a couple of secs to trigger a full blown seizure.

These are known as benzodiazepine withdrawal seizures

With regard to epilepsy, we (the intezam) have epilepsy ourselves, and DMT alone has never triggered a seizure and neither has rue, spice or caapi or the two combined.

With such a friend, if you have to, also consider drinking brew in the city.....and be his/her sober sitter. 😉


*blind guess

I promise you, someone that deep in benzo withdrawal would not be walking in the redwoods. They be curled up on the floor babbling at the demons in the corner trying to stave off a seizure.

When I kicked them I had a full on psychotic break and even though I was locked up in jail for two days I thought I was walking in the woods, funnily enough.
 
null24 said:
I promise you, someone that deep in benzo withdrawal would not be walking in the redwoods. They be curled up on the floor babbling at the demons in the corner trying to stave off a seizure.

No, that's not how it is. You do not need the other heavy benzo withdrawal symptoms to get a withdrawal seizure - they come unannounced, perhaps secs before - one can experience a slight tightening of the abdomen muscles, but that's it.

ncbi paper said:
Seizures have also been reported with less than 15 days of (benzo) use and at therapeutic dosage. Almost all the withdrawal seizures reported were grand mal seizures.

There is some truth in the (human) demons ward off thingy, and we did that, but it took many years to tackle them/theirs/ours down. It's a long (and private) story (we like to skip) since it involves one (1) 'our others'. We consider ourselves healed now.

We take zero medications for the last 7 years and haven't had a generalized seizure since.
 
Sorry, WAYYY OT-
I was being a tad facetious. But my experience with them it's only through illicit use, and it was bad. My doctor tried to prescribe them to me one time after I kick them and I told her that I kicked opiates over 100 times than I can count and probably will do so again at some point my life but I will never ever ever become addicted to benzodiazepines again. It was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life.

The "demons" I referred to are the psychotic hallucinations seem to result from benzodiazepine withdrawal, they are purely an entirely fictitious. At least in my experience.

I'm glad to hear that you are free of these horrible substances intezam. Meth and benzos are, IMHO, the only two "bad" drugs, that modify human behavior while people are under the influence and make them do horrible horrible things they would not otherwise do and that they do these things not just for the sole purpose of acquiring more of the drug but rather just for the hell of it.
 
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