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RESPECT: Understanding the nature of todays drugs problems.

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christian

christian

Rising Star
A thought occured to me this morning. And this thought resonates with one of my previous postings: That man can feel confident and in control of what he manages to do by himself.

-This led me to realise that the main reason that we have drugs problems today, is because people are taking drugs which they do not understand and therefore do not respect. They do not understand the hassle it is to find and then pick the amount of raw materials required, they do not understand the amount of raw material that went into the processing of it's making, the scientific knowledge, the human effort, etc. But if they were to make it from scratch , they would at least know that it was gonna be something to be wary of. Such are the problems of living in a dis-connected society.

-Today it is just too easy to buy something and take it. far too easy..and not just drugs either!!

-Let's look to the past. In my opinion, mushrooms,hbwr,ololiqui- are amongst the strongest of readily available entheogens around. Why?- because all you do is pick them, and eat them-simples! Then comes Marijuana which can be eaten with some fatty material, or smoked, if one learns how. Coca leaves can be chewed-but must be mixed with ashes to work. Yopo seeds work when made correctly with ash and snorted. Cactus works but must be de-spined and tolerated as it is difficult to eat, and a pain to prepare. Ayahuasca is pretty laborious to prepare, simple beers and wines being easy to prepare. etc, etc ( just to give an idea)

-So early man knew he was putting his energy into creating some kind of result, and in doing so gathering a natural knowledge that he was creating something more powerful, yet in balance with his efforts.

-Todays hard drugs, and spirit alcohols are subject to purifications that are out of the natural scheme of things, and that is where i believe the problems lie. In order to produce spirits one must understand how to distill without creating methanol. In order to make hard drugs one must understand chemical purification techniques, and have laboratory equipment at ones disposal etc.

-Readily available processed foods, strong pharmaceutical drugs also, fast life, fast drugs- maybe the world needs to SLOW down a bit and gather a bit of understanding of the nature of things, re-connect-oh, and yes : RESPECT!:roll:
:?: :?:
 
Thanks for those excellent links, cacto. I enjoyed the video, and will read the drugs report when i have the time, aithough a quick skim shows it to be rather positive. Which is all good news.8)
 
I don't think that people use drugs irresponsibly because they don't make them. Addiction is much more complicated than that.
 
I think this post misses almost all of the social/economic/cultural factors of drug use/abuse.

Also, I'm not really sure how picking a mushroom differs from grabbing a baggy of coke/heroin/meth from your neighborhood drug dealer. Whether early man picked and ate a bunch of fungus or modern man picks up hard drugs from a local dealer, both are "putting energy into creating some kind of result," imo.

You say the problem is that today it's far too easy to just buy something and take it. I really don't see how this differs from being able to "just pick and eat" another substance.

How are hard drugs and spirits "subject to to purifications that are out of the natural scheme of things?" A natural being (man) takes natural ingredients (the compounds for synth/extraction/distillation), uses natural processes and yields a natural product. At what point in this system are you claiming that something "unnatural" happens? How can natural beings in a natural system, surrounded by natural materials ever create something "unnatural?" It may be man-made or synthetic, but is that really "unnatural"? If so, is a wasp's nest natural? Why would a plant-synthed drug be "natural" but a human-synthed drug be "unnatural"?

Imo, the main reason we have drug problems today (at least in the US) is because of socio-economic disparity, a war on drugs that has made these substance profitable to be pushed on people, government-funded programs to flood poor-urban centers with these substances, the profitability of the PIC in relation to prohibitionist policies, the benefits of having drugged out masses to those in power and a general lack of knowledge about substances that is furthered through prohibitionist dogma. Yea, society is disconnected, but the first people who ate mushrooms most probably just happened upon them with little planning or foresight. Eventually I'm sure they knew what they were looking for and went scavenging...but again...I don't see that as different from a fiend scampering through back alleys looking for someone to supply their fix; it's just scavenging in a concrete jungle for a supplier rather than scavenging on the savanna looking for a cow-patty.
 
Some interesting points there Equal observer, Elru, and Snozzleberry.

-Without wanting to go into too deep a discussion, my main point was about trying to explain just how disconnected from the realities todays society is. I think appreciation of nature and calm energy can help the world in many ways. I know it was a rather Utopian write up, but do consider this mornings thoughts to have been perhaps assisted with the spirit of "Mescalito", who has been doing some mind work for me the last few days.

-Sure, everything in the end is natural. It comes from our world, and stays in our world. I guess that wether humanity does "right or wrong", doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, because although we can cause negative effects to our planet, it's nothing compared to what nature can do in the blink of an eye.:shock:

-Whilst this may seem off topic, i'd like to think it isn't. I realise that there are many different reasons why people take drugs and have drugs problems. But do believe that drugs problems could be lessened or ceased if people had a better connection with their spiritual, true nature. Rather than the stress and expectations which are "in yer face" in everyday society, etc.8)
 
I don't see any of More's themes in your write-up. There's the idea of the purification of society (as a reflection of the soul), but he never spoke of the purification or refinement of substances and how they interact with man (at least that I've seen). As mentioned above, refinement and ease of use/availability does not have moral connotations in the traditional sense. To say x is natural and therefore good while y is unnatural and therefore bad seems fallacious to me (ignoring the fact that everything is natural naturalis).

To be honest, I don't understand the re-connection and respect you propose. ALL things deserve respect, as all things are a reflection of you.
 
More's themes, Alpha 1,??- I don't know what you mean. These are my thoughts only.

"To be honest, I don't understand the re-connection and respect you propose. ALL things deserve respect, as all things are a reflection of you."

-The point i'm making , Alpha 1, is that in todays world, Respect and Re-connection are forgotten words for the many, thanks to the all consuming nature of the industrialised, consumer culture, consuming to consume, etc.

-When i talk about drugs, my topic talks about natural entheogens taken alone, or only modified with ash or boiling, etc. IE, being as close to nature as possible. Compared to highly purified extracts, and Research Chemicals,etc8)
 
The only "drug problem" in existence today is the "war on drugs," i.e., the practice of most governments to persecute those using and trading drugs. Without that "war" the only "problems" that could be related to drugs are "problems" that may arise for individuals who misuse drugs. But that's not much of a "problem"....ALL problems of people involve "misuse" of elements of their environment (and that's all drugs are--elements of the environment we ourselves organically arose in), in one way or another.

We don't need to "cure" the problem of people making mistakes. The only "cure" for mistakes is in helping people acquire the habit of LEARNING from them. Learning is, after all, nothing other than the process of dealing with and rectifying mistakes (and thus avoid similar mistakes in the future). Mistakes are an INHERENT part of life and living. It is a mistake to MISUSE things, and all people should improve how they USE things--any and all things.
 
I still don't see how something is "closer to nature" when it's unmodified by man.

Farther from man, sure. Closer to Nature? doubtful.

The point presented seems to be the solidification of false dichotomies.
 
Good point there, Swimfriend.

-Like you said, most people don't need "fixing" because they are broken, because their actions are usually a reaction to the society that they are experiencing. That is why i am all in favour for natural psychadelics, because of their great learning potential and ability to re-centre people that may have perhaps strayed off the positive path, etc.8)

> "I still don't see how something is "closer to nature" when it's unmodified by man.

Farther from man, sure. Closer to Nature? doubtful."

-Snozzleberry, when i say closer to nature, i mean in most naturally found form, like freshly picked shrooms-as opposed to say a baggie of coke.:)
 
christian said:
-Snozzleberry, when i say closer to nature, i mean in most naturally found form, like freshly picked shrooms-as opposed to say a baggie of coke.:)
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A freshly picked shroom doesn't make you trip out of nowhere. The chemicals in the mushroom make you trip...those chemicals were synthed/refined by the mushroom. How is this different than a human refining coca leaves into a baggie of coke? Both can be found "naturally;" again you are using nature solely to refer to non-man-made goods, which is a false distinction, imo.
 
It sounds like you just like mushrooms and don't like coke. That's fine and I share the sentiment, but I don't really follow your logic for this. Like DMT, cocaine is a naturally occurring plant substance. If you drink a gallon of coca tea you will be strongly affected. If you drink a gallon of ayahuasca you will be strongly affected. If you extract the active parts from the plants you can get the same/very similar effects without drinking a gallon of plant juice.

Just because something has been touched and altered by humans doesn't make it unnatural and "bad". I think that this idea that humans are outside of nature comes (in this community) partly as a result of feeling guilty for the impact of humans on "nature". This guilt makes us lump all things that people do in the categories of "human" and thus "unnatural" and "bad" and then we glorify things like mushrooms because we perceive them as being "pure" from humanity. Our guilt is mostly focused on the western world and the perception that indigenous people are 'pure' is why we have the whole fetish for South America and Indians.

Instead of trying to make rules for natural/unnatural I think that we should judge each action and decision for what it is and the circumstances surrounding it. Buying bags of meth doesn't come as a result of honorable or respectable intentions and that's why I have issues with meth addicts. It has nothing to do with where their drugs come from.

Proof to me that humans aren't so bad though: LSD is manmade and LSD is just about 100% awesome.
 
Ignorance is the root and stem of all Evil - Plato
There has to be evil so that good can prove its purity above it. - Buddha
Ignorance must exist for the world to continue learning.
Everything is as it should be, and simply because of the fact that there are those of us who understand that "drugs" require respect, the world is steadily learning about the idea; thinking differently with every new day, subtly but surely.
 
elru said:
It sounds like you just like mushrooms and don't like coke. That's fine and I share the sentiment, but I don't really follow your logic for this. Like DMT, cocaine is a naturally occurring plant substance. If you drink a gallon of coca tea you will be strongly affected. If you drink a gallon of ayahuasca you will be strongly affected. If you extract the active parts from the plants you can get the same/very similar effects without drinking a gallon of plant juice.

Just because something has been touched and altered by humans doesn't make it unnatural and "bad". I think that this idea that humans are outside of nature comes (in this community) partly as a result of feeling guilty for the impact of humans on "nature". This guilt makes us lump all things that people do in the categories of "human" and thus "unnatural" and "bad" and then we glorify things like mushrooms because we perceive them as being "pure" from humanity. Our guilt is mostly focused on the western world and the perception that indigenous people are 'pure' is why we have the whole fetish for South America and Indians.

Instead of trying to make rules for natural/unnatural I think that we should judge each action and decision for what it is and the circumstances surrounding it. Buying bags of meth doesn't come as a result of honorable or respectable intentions and that's why I have issues with meth addicts. It has nothing to do with where their drugs come from.

Proof to me that humans aren't so bad though: LSD is manmade and LSD is just about 100% awesome.
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-HAHAHA...pure bolivian -Peruvian Flake cocaine is in my opinion the BEST drug in the world-bar none!!:lol: :lol:

-Cocaine (as salt form) is NOT naturally occuring, but is a chemical extract from the coca leaf. Sure it exists in the coca leaf in freebase form, but in tiny, unsnortable amounts and not effective unless mixed with lime or ashes, etc. If you drink large amounts of coca tea you will not be affected, because it needs converting to a salt to be assimilated-thus the chewing or masticating of coca leaves with lime or ash. I may be wrong, but i don't think so.

-My post is basically all about UNDERSTANDING and RESPECT of drugs, yet you failed to UNDERSTAND that. Please re read the last few lines of the post please.

-Have a great day. Chris.:p
 
Steely said:
There has to be evil so that good can prove its purity above it. - Buddha
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Do you have a link for that quote? That doesn't sound anything like authentic Buddhism, as I've heard and understand it (unless the context of the quote modifies the meaning as it seems from the single sentence).
 
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