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Responsible Vrs Irresponsible Drug Use

Migrated topic.
Ron, amazing story!

There are three different types of respect and responsibility that should be considered, IMHO: social, personal, and environmental.

A person who goes to a party Friday night because he has off from work the next day, sends his kids to Auntie's house, and has a cab drive him home after getting smashed is doing this in a socially responsible way.

Getting totally smashed, however, is very hard on the body, and may not be the most PERSONALLY responsible thing to do. But perhaps he could drink less, drink slowly, drink on a full stomach and stay hydrated. (I choose not to use alcohol, but there are some wiser ways to drink than others.)

If the man chooses to get drunk with organic orange juice and hemp vodka, he is taking environmental responsibility into consideration.

Ideally, one should strive for responsibility in all three areas. If the nature of the drug in question cannot adhere to all three, then perhaps the drug in use should be questioned.

Maybe we can even add one for spiritual responsibility?

For example, when I take Kratom, I make sure that I am taking small amounts, infrequently (1-2 times/month), and that it will not hamper my work or relationships in any way. I stay at home. My sources are organic.

HOWEVER, when I drink Ayahuasca or smoke DMT, it pushes me to entirely new levels of responsibility--social, environmental, personal, and spiritual. It always pushes me to a higher standard, and sloppiness in any of these categories invariably results in a harsh/anxiety-producing experience. Pay the credit card. Speak honesty with my friends. Put clean food into my body. So, this is unique, from other "drugs," in that it is the only one that DEMANDS my responsibility before engaging.

Sometimes Cannabis will point out sloppy behavior in the forms of paranoia. But DMT directly connects me with the spirits of all of those who are hurt or endangered by my actions, and moves me to change my actions immediately out of compassion. Kratom, while used responsibly, just makes me feel good.

I had a blast last time I met Quetzacoatl, by the way. ;)
 
Sadly, because you can incriminate yourself by admitting use and very possibly lose your job, you usually don't get to hear from the people who use illegal drugs and live good and healthy lives, so how is it possible in our current stand to show people that drugs and people can live in harmony, and already do, just in secret because they have no other option?

"I believe that a huge difference could be made by spending our tax dollars on "responsible use" educations rather than the current abstinence strategy."

I like that idea. I wish others would push for that.



Edit: I deleted a part...didn't come out right and couldn't think of a better way to word it.
 
Cheeto said:
Virola78 said:
Off topic as usual..
Then what is ELF going to do besides informing the mass and evolving the nexus? (which is a good thing)
we are already doing that here at the nexus..

prohibition is just a way of control
it is not a war on drugs. so cant win this war.
Click to expand...

I would say religious rights to practice shamanism or spiritualism. If you feel that these whateveryouwanacallems help you connect with spirits/gods that you believe in, then it should be your right to do so. Even some priests think that the bible was inspired by drinking a magic tea and having visions....sound familiar?
Click to expand...

What i was trying to say... It does not matter how you see the use of whateveryouwanacallems. (although it is an interesting discussion)
The money that is involved is fueling not only government. Do you think organized crime (whether is has a face or not) will allow legalization and thereby kill their profits? This is not about democracy lol. This is about money. Democracy is a facade.

I will say it again: prohibition is a means of control (making money/power.) Our idealistic ideas need momentum. Without power (in whatver form) there will be no legalization. Because it will not be profitable for those already in power. It would be silly to think that 'government' is the face to talk to.
Government is just a puppet on a string.
 
I'm not absolutely sure about the history....did people get the chance to vote for all these different drugs to make them all illegal? I know people hated hippies, and after a documentary i watched on hippies, i got to say....i don't like them either. They seemed to carry a message of, love, peace with fellow man..no war, but what i saw was a group of irresponsible people letting drugs rule there lives, shooting H on the street, not taking baths, spreading STD's, perhaps even the big STD outbreak starter. Is that the turning point where most drugs became illegal?


I would say we already have a legal steping stone for legalisation and its not MJ, its alcohol. Manny people world wide drink alcohol as a recreational drug...responsibly. It has a good potential for abuse, i feel its even legal as a drinking substance because most of the people even in government, and rich people pulling their strings drink it in a recreational manner.

But everybody who drinks alcohol is not an alcoholic. And the main point that should be pushed is, by making these substances illegal for anyone to use, they are treating us like kids, with the clear message of the bad kid who spoiled it for everyone. Making the outrageous point that because people CAN treat these substances irresponsibly, no one can use them. Then we should make the argument, do you really want me to list the many things that can be treated in an irresponsible manner? Are we going to make sex illegal(Irresponsible sex)?, are we going to make driving illegal?(Irresponsible driving), and really name out over fifty things.

Perhaps we need someone to wisely word their arguments, and face them very publicly, we need people on TV making these arguments, perhaps a TV show dedicated to the cause. With nicely compiled arguments as i mentioned, as bufo mentioned, as ron.....well i can't list everyone, but you get the point. Every valid argument needs to be made publicly.

I think there are more non-drug dealers in USA than drug dealers, as long as you can swaw the masses then you get legalization. We need to have a world wide war on "the war on drugs".

If we take away everything that can be done irresponsibly, then we can't do anything, because anything can be done irresponsibly.
 
The prohibition industry is huge, literally a multi-multi- billion dollar world wide industry. It is very powerful in many ways. Its primary agents of power seems to be propaganda. I think that if people were aware of the truth about prohibition they would demand it be repealed and it would be. This has happened in other places and has been successful.

Even though the world is messed up and the US gov is "semi-corrupt" people still can make a difference. There is not a single "all powerful" group sitting around deciding everything. It is a bunch of retards chasing a dollar. Look at california and other states with medical marijuana. There is progress being made. Medical marijuana is the perfect first step, as once people see that it can be used recreationally without harm it will be accepted.

As stated it is the people we need to talk to not the government (although we should tell them but don't count on anything until the people want it). It would be the equivalent of talking to big tobacco about how because cigarettes can cause cancer they should warn people. They are a business, they do whats in their best interest to survive its human nature. We cant expect the DEA to admit what they are doing is actually far worse for society than all drugs known. Unfortunately the drug war industry, claims to be a sector of the US gov, this happened because "politicians" (meant loosely) were able to jump on the propaganda boat and get votes to protect society and its children. Drugs are easy funding and votes in their eyes. However its the people who pay the bill. Hopefully the US gov will focus on terrorism and more serious offenses. Why not a war on sex offenders?

Have you guys heard about that Casey Lee story. The cops came to this registered sex offenders house after a neighbor reported that he had little girls living in tents in this backyard. They did not even go back there and check it out. The one girl had been kidnapped and the others were his "rape" children with her. Now if someone had called and said their was marijuana growing back there what would have happened? Cops make me sick. Targeting consenting adults whom do not harm others for mere convenience. This is the same bread that would have proudly joined the SS.
 
bufoman said:
The prohibition industry is huge, literally a multi-multi- billion dollar world wide industry. It is very powerful in many ways. Its primary agents of power seems to be propaganda. I think that if people were aware of the truth about prohibition they would demand it be repealed and it would be. This has happened in other places and has been successful.

Even though the world is messed up and the US gov is "semi-corrupt" people still can make a difference. There is not a single "all powerful" group sitting around deciding everything. It is a bunch of retards chasing a dollar. Look at california and other states with medical marijuana. There is progress being made. Medical marijuana is the perfect first step, as once people see that it can be used recreationally without harm it will be accepted.

As stated it is the people we need to talk to not the government (although we should tell them but don't count on anything until the people want it). It would be the equivalent of talking to big tobacco about how because cigarettes can cause cancer they should warn people. They are a business, they do whats in their best interest to survive its human nature. We cant expect the DEA to admit what they are doing is actually far worse for society than all drugs known. Unfortunately the drug war industry, claims to be a sector of the US gov, this happened because "politicians" (meant loosely) were able to jump on the propaganda boat and get votes to protect society and its children. Drugs are easy funding and votes in their eyes. However its the people who pay the bill. Hopefully the US gov will focus on terrorism and more serious offenses. Why not a war on sex offenders?

Have you guys heard about that Casey Lee story. The cops came to this registered sex offenders house after a neighbor reported that he had little girls living in tents in this backyard. They did not even go back there and check it out. The one girl had been kidnapped and the others were his "rape" children with her. Now if someone had called and said their was marijuana growing back there what would have happened? Cops make me sick. Targeting consenting adults whom do not harm others for mere convenience. This is the same bread that would have proudly joined the SS.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your post! It was refreshing beyond belief.

"The prohibition industry is huge"
Yes sir and there are fingers pointing saying "take them down" many from this site. Its makes no difference what DRUGS may be available its about personal responsibility. Not judgement.

I am sick of my tax dollars being wasted and many attitudes are costing me money directly from my paycheck. Worse so is the freedom I and every other human is being denied. I see much of the same judgement and ignorance here as I see in my congressmen and senators who wish to restrict my life in order to protect me from myself.

I need no such protection and despise the restrictions. I do not wish to live my life as a prisoner to societys BS regulations. Thats what makes me a Law Breaker. It has nothing do do with my honesty or value system if I use this DRUG I should be punished.

To put it simply once again. Someone is missing the point. Due to the fact they have tunnel vision and see themselves but are missing the big pix.

Peace Friends
 
I finnaly get it, after learning a little about the history of alcohol. Basically, to be able to fight the government for the freedom of recreational drug use, an actual war will have to take place. The only reason alcohol is legal to drink is because thats basically what happened, people had to actually fight the government for alcohol to be legal, people got outraged and where forced to stand up for there rights, so to win a drug battle, you need to convince 90% of the people that it needs to be legal, then the 90% have to act on the cause.
 
some good stuff i found on Wiki. Recreational Drug Use
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"Recreational drug use is drug use with the intention of creating or enhancing recreational experience. Such use is usually controversial, however, often being considered to be also drug abuse, and it is often illegal. Also, it may overlap with other uses, such as medicinal (including self medication), performance enhancement, and entheogenic (spiritual). Therefore categorizing a particular instance of drug use as recreational may be controversial. Drugs commonly considered capable of recreational use include alcohol and tobacco, and drugs within the scope of the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs and Convention on Psychotropic Substances. The fact that caffeine use may be considered recreational is often overlooked. Psychopharmacologist Ronald K. Siegel refers to intoxication as the "fourth drive," arguing that the human instinct to seek mind-altering substances (psychoactive drugs) has so much force and persistence that it functions like the human desire to satisfy hunger, thirst and the need for shelter."

Responsible drug use
Main article: Responsible drug use
The concept of responsible drug use is that a person can use recreational drugs with reduced or eliminated risk of negatively affecting other parts of one's life or other peoples lives. Advocates of this philosophy point to the many well-known artists and intellectuals who have used drugs, experimentally or otherwise, with few detrimental effects on their lives. Critics argue that the drugs are escapist—and dangerous, unpredictable and sometimes addictive, and have negative and profound effects in geographic areas well beyond the location of the user. It should be noted that these criticisms can apply to a number of non drug related addictions and behavioral abuse disorders. According to medical literature, responsible drug use only becomes drug abuse when the use of the substance significantly interferes with the user's daily life.[citation needed]


Responsible drug use advocates argue that users should not take drugs at the same time as activities such as driving, swimming, operating machinery, or other activities which are unsafe without a sober state. Responsible drug use is emphasized as a primary prevention technique in harm-reduction drug policies. Harm-reduction policies were popularized in the late 1980s although they began in the 1970s counter-culture where users were distributed cartoons explaining responsible drug use and consequences of irresponsible drug use. Another issue is that the illegality of drugs in itself may also cause social and economic consequences for those using them--the drugs may be "cut" with adulturants and the purity varies wildly, making overdoses more likely-- and legal regulation of drug production and distribution would alleviate these and other dangers of illegal drug use. Harm reduction seeks to minimize the harms that can occur through the use of various drugs, whether legal (e.g. alcohol and nicotine), or illegal (e.g. heroin and cocaine). For example, people who inject illicit drugs can minimize harm to both themselves and members of the community through proper injecting technique, using new needles and syringes each time, and through proper disposal of all injecting equipment.


Movements:
There have been many movements, mostly calling for the legalization of recreational drugs (most notably cannabis). Examples of such movements are the Worldwide Marijuana March, Hemp Day, and 420. Several movements which call for the legalization of drugs, not from an argument of their safety, but rather from an argument that this issue should be considered a medical one and not a criminal one, also exist, primarily in North America, one such organization is the Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP). Impact varies from country to country, depending on its legality. Also, there are many Anti-Drug movements, specifically Straight Edge and The Partnership For A Drug Free America, calling for the continuation of its current illegality.

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Maybe everyone here who wants to correct drug laws should join SSDP, rather than starting another organization for basically the same cause.

Wiki : Students for Sensible Drug Policy

"[edit] Mission, Values and Structure as a Grassroots Organization
Mission Statement: "Students for Sensible Drug Policy is an international grassroots network of students who are concerned about the impact drug abuse has on our communities, but who also know that the War on Drugs is failing our generation and our society. SSDP mobilizes and empowers young people to participate in the political process, pushing for sensible policies to achieve a safer and more just future, while fighting back against counterproductive Drug War policies, particularly those that directly harm students and youth."

Values Statement: "Students for Sensible Drug Policy neither encourages nor condemns drug use. Rather, we seek to reduce the harms caused by drug abuse and drug policies. As young people, we strive toward a just and compassionate society where drug abuse is treated as a health issue instead of a criminal justice issue. We recognize that the very real harms of drug abuse are not adequately addressed by current policies and we advocate measures that would effectively help those who develop drug problems. Yet, we also believe that individuals must ultimately be allowed to make decisions for themselves as long as their actions do not infringe upon anyone else’s freedoms or safety.

Because the War on Drugs has historically been justified as necessary to protect youth, it is our responsibility as young people to stop this harmful war from being waged in our names any longer. As scholars, we seek solutions to society's drug problems through focused research, honest dialogue, and informed debate, instead of unquestioned extremism, punishment, and propaganda."

Structure as a Grassroots Organization: SSDP comprises student chapters all across the country. Any student anywhere can start a chapter. While SSDP has a variety of national campaigns and actions that everyone can participate in, chapters are also encouraged to work on those issues that have the most traction in their own communities. Annually SSDPers convene for a national conference. There, students acquire essential activist knowledge and skills. Also, chapters elect students to serve on SSDP's Board of Directors. The Board in turn selects SSDP's executive director, who is responsible for tending to both the day-to-day operations of the organization, as well as its long-term direction. An important duty of the executive director is to hire staff. Currently, besides an executive director, SSDP has an alumni director, three outreach directors, and a webmaster. Ultimately, the SSDP staff exists to serve SSDP's chapters and activists.

Legally, SSDP consists of two separate, distinct entities — Students for Sensible Drug Policy Foundation and Students for Sensible Drug Policy Inc. The former, as a 501(c)3 organization, engages in education and outreach. Donations to SSDP Foundation are tax-deductible. SSDP Inc, as a 501(c)4 organization, engages in advocacy, or attempts to effect change to law and policy. Accordingly, donations to SSDP Inc are not tax-deductible."
 
UniverseCannon said:
Cheeto said:
۩ said:
You say drugs
I say neurotransmission.
Click to expand...

When i say drugs, im speaking of the ones that give you a buzz or decreases your ability to function.


MJ, Beer, DMT, Cigs.......
Click to expand...

Your lumping dmt into the same catagory as alcohol and cigs? :?
Click to expand...

i think 'catagories' are more the problem than whats in them. dmt, cigs, alcohol, meth, etc are all 'drugs' according to most (not me). by having the category 'drugs', society doesnt have to confront specific substances in conversation (or even moreo, arguments). for example:

guy A: i use dmt because i learn a lot about life and death and ultimate thruths which is more than i can say for my sober life

guy B: oh, so you are a DRUG ADDICT?

guy A: no it is for spiritual growth and dmt is not addictive.

guy B: bullshit! i know what DRUGS do, they make you stupid and make you rob liquer stores! and i know dmt is an illegal drug so you are an ADDICT.

guy A: not all drugs are the same tho...

guy B: some are worse then others but all DRUGS are bad and they make you DUMB!! how can you learn things while you are SEEIN SHIT
 
mogascreeta said:
UniverseCannon said:
Cheeto said:
۩ said:
You say drugs
I say neurotransmission.
Click to expand...

When i say drugs, im speaking of the ones that give you a buzz or decreases your ability to function.


MJ, Beer, DMT, Cigs.......
Click to expand...

Your lumping dmt into the same catagory as alcohol and cigs? :?
Click to expand...

i think 'catagories' are more the problem than whats in them. dmt, cigs, alcohol, meth, etc are all 'drugs' according to most (not me). by having the category 'drugs', society doesnt have to confront specific substances in conversation (or even moreo, arguments). for example:

guy A: i use dmt because i learn a lot about life and death and ultimate thruths which is more than i can say for my sober life

guy B: oh, so you are a DRUG ADDICT?

guy A: no it is for spiritual growth and dmt is not addictive.

guy B: bullshit! i know what DRUGS do, they make you stupid and make you rob liquer stores! and i know dmt is an illegal drug so you are an ADDICT.

guy A: not all drugs are the same tho...

guy B: some are worse then others but all DRUGS are bad and they make you DUMB!! how can you learn things while you are SEEIN SHIT
Click to expand...

Right on.
Even if they are not 'dumb' by themselves, then still most are dumbed down by media culture.
Happy slaves : )
 
I think people really need to get educated, this is a dumb argument...there is nothing wrong with categories, and all drugs, weather medical, recreational or spiritual have something in common which puts them into the broad category "drugs". The problem is not words, its dumb people who don't take the time to learn what they mean. Your never going to look smart by suggesting someone remove DMT from the category drug because people are taught "drugs" are bad. Like said before, medical drugs fall in the same category, do you suggest we remove medical drugs from the "drug" category also?

I sure hope no arguments like this are brought to your projects, if so you will be laughed at.
 
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