RIMA affects on other psychedelics?

[PH0Man]

Hello fellow Nexians!

I've spent that last few weeks continuing to experiment with Ayahuasca (formosahuasca), and all this use of Syrian Rue has led me to wonder what other wonderful uses it may have.

It can be used to potentiate the affetcs of entheogens of the tryptamine family (DMT, psylocybin etc.), but what about the Phenethylamines? It apparently potentiates mescaline roughly 3x, but will kill you used in conjunction with MDMA (because MDMA is a serotonin releasing agent?). Also, what about trying to potentiate 25I-NBOMe?

Thanks for all answers, and have a great day!

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Psilocybin + an MAOI is known to be one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences you can have. Even Terrence McKenna said that the combination terrified him.

Any psychoactive compound that is broken down by MAO should be potentiated by an MAOI. I imagine you would see this effect when you looked at other psychedelic, substituted tryptamines.

I'm unsure about phenylethylamine-derived compounds though. RIMAs are known to be lightly psychedelic themselves, so it's hard to tell what is synergy caused by two systems working together, and what is a direct pharmacological effect of one compound on another.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Chan]

Just. Don't.

Why on earth would you even want to 'potentiate' 25i?

Is the regular vasoconstriction not enough?

If you want to see your next birthday, wise up.

Rue isn't some magic money-saving ray gun; it inhibits several vital safety functions your continued existence depends on...just chocolate and cheese will make you really, really sick with it, so no, just forget you ever mentioned NBOMEs in the same post. Read some books, come back, try talking again.

:x

 

[RhythmSpring]

I would not be surprised at all if you died on RIMA + 25I. It's a psychedelic phenethylamine. Don't do it.

 

[SomeYoungTraveler]

25I in itself will wear down the receptors it antagonizes quite quickly, and sometimes, after some time of this, it isn't uncommon for it to have made a difference of needing 35mg to breakthrough to needing 55mg, so definitely a noticable difference although I'm not sure how long those take to fully heal.

 

[Chan]

25I in itself will wear down the receptors it antagonizes quite quickly, and sometimes, after some time of this, it isn't uncommon for it to have made a difference of needing 35mg to breakthrough to needing 55mg, so definitely a noticable difference although I'm not sure how long those take to fully heal.

WUT?!?! :?:

The usual dose for 25i is in the range of 500-1000 micrograms (mcg or μg)

which is equal to 0.5 - 1.0 milligrams (mg).

So chucking out figures like 35-55mg is DEEPLY irresponsible.

You are, perhaps, thinking of 2C-I dosages, but it is NOT the same substance.

Education, people...saves lives etc.

 

[PH0Man]

I would not be surprised at all if you died on RIMA + 25I. It's a psychedelic phenethylamine. Don't do it.

Isn't mescaline a psychedelic phenethylamine?

 

[Chan]

I would not be surprised at all if you died on RIMA + 25I. It's a psychedelic phenethylamine. Don't do it.

Isn't mescaline a psychedelic phenethylamine?

Yes it is, but a comparatively 'weak' one, which is why the typical dose is around 400-600mg. It also has thousands of years of demonstrably safe, human usage going for it too.

So, nothing like 25i-NBOMe then.

 

[PH0Man]

I would not be surprised at all if you died on RIMA + 25I. It's a psychedelic phenethylamine. Don't do it.

Isn't mescaline a psychedelic phenethylamine?

Yes it is, but a comparatively 'weak' one, which is why the typical dose is around 400-600mg. It also has thousands of years of demonstrably safe, human usage going for it too.

So, nothing like 25i-NBOMe then.

Indeed, mescaline has a proven "safety record", whereas 25I is only 12 years old and already has numerous deaths attributed to it. I suppose I was simply wondering if anyone knew if 25I was pharmacologically more like mescaline, which can safely be used with Harmala Alkaloids, or if it was more like MDMA which kills when used with a MAOI.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

25I in itself will wear down the receptors it antagonizes quite quickly, and sometimes, after some time of this, it isn't uncommon for it to have made a difference of needing 35mg to breakthrough to needing 55mg, so definitely a noticable difference although I'm not sure how long those take to fully heal.

I'm calling BS on this one. Wrong dosages, and I've never heard of a psychedelic 'wearing down' a receptor (also 25I is an agonist, not an antagonist). It will cause donwregulation of the target receptor, but pretty much every drug does that.

Blessings
~ND

 

[RhythmSpring]

25I in itself will wear down the receptors it antagonizes quite quickly, and sometimes, after some time of this, it isn't uncommon for it to have made a difference of needing 35mg to breakthrough to needing 55mg, so definitely a noticable difference although I'm not sure how long those take to fully heal.

I'm calling BS on this one. Wrong dosages, and I've never heard of a psychedelic 'wearing down' a receptor (also 25I is an agonist, not an antagonist). It will cause donwregulation of the target receptor, but pretty much every drug does that.

Blessings
~ND

Actually, 25I is notorious for causing immense, long-lasting tolerance and cross-tolerance with other psychedelics.

 

[dreamer042]

One should be very wary of mixing RIMA's with phenethylamines. The amphetamine skeleton is embedded in the structure of phenethylamine, suggesting the prudent approach would be to categorize phenethylamines in the same class as amphetamines when it comes to MAOI's.

Granted it depends a lot on the action of the phenethylamine once it reaches the nervous system. Many of us do take harmalas with cactus with seemingly no ill effects, likely because the phenethylamines in cactus don't appear to cause strong downstream dumps of endogenous neurotransmitters the way things like MDMA and methamphetamine do.

All in all it's tricky territory to tread and it's ill advised to pursue such combinations without a strong understanding of the pharmacology of these compounds, of which there unfortunately is little information available at the present time.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

[...]The amphetamine skeleton is embedded in the structure of phenethylamine, suggesting the prudent approach would be to categorize phenethylamines in the same class as amphetamines when it comes to MAOI's.

Granted it depends a lot on the action of the phenethylamine once it reaches the nervous system. Many of us do take harmalas with cactus with seemingly no ill effects, likely because the phenethylamines in cactus don't appear to cause strong downstream dumps of endogenous neurotransmitters the way things like MDMA and methamphetamine do.

All in all it's tricky territory to tread and it's ill advised to pursue such combinations without a strong understanding of the pharmacology of these compounds, of which there unfortunately is little information available at the present time.

Call me pernickety, but I would reword this as it is surely the case that the phenethylamine skeleton is embedded in the structure of amphetamine rather than the other way round. The name "amphetamine" is short for "alpha-methylphenylethylamine", after all.

The rest of the post is eminently sensible.

The thought of taking NBOMEs with or without RIMAs I find horrifying! They appear to have unpleasant/dangerous effects, both short- and long-term, at least in some users.

I'd still be cautious using RIMAs even with cactus and make sure you absolutely know exactly how potent your material is.

 

[dreamer042]

lol good point

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

25I in itself will wear down the receptors it antagonizes quite quickly, and sometimes, after some time of this, it isn't uncommon for it to have made a difference of needing 35mg to breakthrough to needing 55mg, so definitely a noticable difference although I'm not sure how long those take to fully heal.

I'm calling BS on this one. Wrong dosages, and I've never heard of a psychedelic 'wearing down' a receptor (also 25I is an agonist, not an antagonist). It will cause donwregulation of the target receptor, but pretty much every drug does that.

Blessings
~ND

Actually, 25I is notorious for causing immense, long-lasting tolerance and cross-tolerance with other psychedelics.

I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with the idea of 'wearing' down a receptor. Trans-membrane receptors like 5-HT2As are produced and degraded reasonably frequently in response to environmental cues, including exposure to drugs. Since it's a full agonist of the 5-HT2A, as opposed to a partial agonist like other psychedelics, it makes sense that it might produce a more profound tolerance.

I don't think you can make a call just looking at the geometry. Amphetamine's and MAOIs are a bad mix b/c Amphs release monoamine neurotransmitters, and when the body's ability to metabolize them is disrupted, that can lead to problems like serotonin syndrome. If there are phenylethylamines that don't release NTs, but act just as agonists, they effect of mixing them would be different. I don't think 25I has NT releasing properties, it's selectivity for the 5-HT2AR is one of the things that makes it attractive to researchers.

For reference, the skeleton for methamphetamine is in LSD, along with the skeleton for DMT.

Blessings
~ND

 

[PH0Man]

One should be very wary of mixing RIMA's with phenethylamines. The amphetamine skeleton is embedded in the structure of phenethylamine, suggesting the prudent approach would be to categorize phenethylamines in the same class as amphetamines when it comes to MAOI's.

Granted it depends a lot on the action of the phenethylamine once it reaches the nervous system. Many of us do take harmalas with cactus with seemingly no ill effects, likely because the phenethylamines in cactus don't appear to cause strong downstream dumps of endogenous neurotransmitters the way things like MDMA and methamphetamine do.

All in all it's tricky territory to tread and it's ill advised to pursue such combinations without a strong understanding of the pharmacology of these compounds, of which there unfortunately is little information available at the present time.

Thank you! I will heed your advice, and not venture into unmapped territory. From what I've heard, 25I tends to cause euphoria, which might indicate a large release of neurotransmitters. If this is correct, it would be very dangerous (like MDMA) to mix with a MAOI.