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Risk of death: is it possible?

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ubu

ubu

Rising Star
A week or so, the few times SWIM smoked DMT he thought he would die. It was not just a psychological feeling but an intense physical sensation: the sensation that his head was being heavily pressed (or was going to explode), a very sharp sound, steadily growing (as if something would explode inside him), a strong uncomfortable sensation in his chest and finally a strong pain in his stomach (SWIM always feels some stomach pain on psychedelics).

These sensations lasted a few seconds but caused immeasurable terror to SWIM. Seconds later SWIM no longer feel his head being pressed, no pain in chest or stomach and he realized that he is not going to die. Then SWIM just breakthrough as if nothing had happened.

Last Sunday, the feeling was more intense than usual. For the first time SWIM begged to stop. SWIM brokethrough as usual, but this time he did not forgot the terrible feeling that he felt minutes ago. Still tripping very hard SWIM succeed to open his eyes and measure his blood pressure. To his surprise, it was perfectly normal. Finally, SWIM looked at the mirror just to find a nice and relaxed face.

Yesterday SWIM spent his day reading trip reports. Descriptions of death and horror are common but few get to the point to be really clear or specific about physical discomforts.

SWIM asks your help. He need your opnion, especially from those who felt or feel physical discomfort, fear of death and fear of trying DMT again.
 
Strassman noticed a slight increase in blood pressure and a moderate tachycardia, IIRC.

My resting heart rate is about 70-80bpm, I've had my pulse checked during the experience. I maxed out at 107bpm, far from anything dangerous.
 
ubu said:
A week or so, the few times SWIM smoked DMT he thought he would die. It was not just a psychological feeling but an intense physical sensation: the sensation that his head was being heavily pressed (or was going to explode), a very sharp sound, steadily growing (as if something would explode inside him), a strong uncomfortable sensation in his chest and finally a strong pain in his stomach (SWIM always feels some stomach pain on psychedelics).

These sensations lasted a few seconds but caused immeasurable terror to SWIM. Seconds later SWIM no longer feel his head being pressed, no pain in chest or stomach and he realized that he is not going to die. Then SWIM just breakthrough as if nothing had happened.

Last Sunday, the feeling was more intense than usual. For the first time SWIM begged to stop. SWIM brokethrough as usual, but this time he did not forgot the terrible feeling that he felt minutes ago. Still tripping very hard SWIM succeed to open his eyes and measure his blood pressure. To his surprise, it was perfectly normal. Finally, SWIM looked at the mirror just to find a nice and relaxed face.

Yesterday SWIM spent his day reading trip reports. Descriptions of death and horror are common but few get to the point to be really clear or specific about physical discomforts.

SWIM asks your help. He need your opnion, especially from those who felt or feel physical discomfort, fear of death and fear of trying DMT again.
Click to expand...

The physical discomforts you have described are very common in DMT experiences. I imagine it is quite normal to react in the way you have suggested. DMT is overwhelming and strange after all. In most trip reports, concerning dying, the reporter says they actively accepted the feeling of death and they were able to move on through the experience easier. Fighting it will make it harder.

xx
 
Exactly, I read Strassman notes. But having the feeling is much more terrible and insane than the description!
 
No, a reasonable vaporized DMT experience is not going to kill you....ever!
So relax & let these feelings happen & see where you take yourself...it's all you...right now your fears are just running the show!

Although sometimes it feels so strange & alien & overpowering, that some people think that they must be dead or dying.
"How else could this ever happen?!?!?!"
But I promise you, you will always come out of it!! Usually way too soon!

Just recently, I had an experience where it felt as if my body's muscles & bone were quickly being peeled off & decaying away strip by strip, my jaw even fell back, felt like it separated & my teeth started to fall out & get sucked away.
It felt very, very real, but it was not actually painful.
(Kind of like the pressure felt when at the dentist & your mouth is all Novocained & numb & he starts working on the problem tooth, drilling, or pulling...heavy pressure but not necessarily pain.)
This could have been terrifying. But it wasn't.
It was one of the most wonderful feelings I've ever felt, because I now know that it is just the DMT experience, so I am able to go with it & explore what is being shown to me without fear....& this one had something to tell me!! Sometimes it's just fun & powerful, sometimes there is work to be done!
Oh, and guess what, after my entire meat-suit was gone...I was still there!!!!


Are you sure this "heavy pressing" you feel is not just you clinging hard to your physical body instead of letting it go, surrendering & moving forward into whatever happens?

Next time do not fight it at all, just breath & observe & accept.
I know that's much easier said than done, but that's all you can do, so practice.


You are not your body!!!
It is only a vehicle for this world!!
I mean this literally!! DMT or not!
Think about this a bit!! Feel your body & feel your thoughts...are they the same?
Where is the you, inside your body?
Close you eyes, relax & try to quiet the constant running monologue of thoughts.
Where are you now? Not your body...you...that core of consciousness that is always there!! Where is it?

(remember your brain is just a clump of matter, if consciousness comes from there, then it is logical to say all matter has consciousness...like rocks, air & water as well. they are made of the same exact matter as your brain, just in a different configuration.
Start thinking of the brain instead as a radio antenna tuned to your specific frequency.
You are never going to find a radio station, or DJ inside of a transistor radio, even though the sound comes from there. Because the radio just receives the broadcast from a remote location & amplifies it....same with the brain!!)




BTW...basic question....
Are you afraid to die?
If so, why?
(once again, think about it...you may surprise yourself)
My only fears come from how it will effect those close to me, who have not come to terms with it yet.
A funeral should be a celebration for the person who finally passed through...not a gloomy, cry-fest for those still living!!!

Personally, I can't wait!!!
I'm not suicidal at all...I've just had a strong fascination with death & what happens next as far back as I can remember...about 5-6 yrs old. I can't wait to see whats next!
It's going to happen to everyone...there's no stopping it...so just relax.

Wouldn't it be great to loose the tight, hot, sweaty meat-suit your wearing & be free of it's limitations?


Either that, or all this manusha is just over...no more pain, no more problems, be it physical or psychological.
Whats to be scared of, if there is nothing at all?


buck up camper...your not going to die just yet!😉
WS
 
If you smoke it, you almost certainly won't die. It is possible to overdose if you take a huge oral dose. Exact dosage is not known. From a study done injecting dmt in to mice, the ld-50 was said to be about 115 mg/kg Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : LD50s & Material Safety Data Sheets. That works out to about 10 grams for a 200 pound person. However, people who take dmt orally almost always take dmt with an maoi, or rima. As far as I know, there are no studies done to determine a deadly dmt dose in combination with maoi, but the ld-50 of dmt would almost certainly be lower in combination with maoi. Exactly how much lower is not known. The ld-50 for oral dmt with 150mg harmaline might be 2g or 5g, or 1g. Uknown.

I wouldn't go taking more than 200mg ever. 200mg is double what most people consider to be a very large dose, so that should be considered the absolute upper limit for any person considering taking the biggest dose of dmt they will ever take. Also, I have never heard of anyone injecting even in the 200mg range. Those who have tried injecting large amounts of dmt describe severe discomfort. On that note, it seems as though people who inject dmt encounter more physical problems than those who smoke it. I I would not recommend large injected doses. I'm just saying.... officially, the ld-50 for dmt is 10g injected, but that was done on mice, and although the lethal dose might officially be 10g, that doesn't mean it would be impossible to die from 3g, or almost die, or encounter a non fatal, but serious problem. Keep dosing under 200mg. Psychedelic effects do not seem to increase from larger doses anyway, it just seems to have a more potent effect on the body. And especially be careful if you inject. Injections just seem to encounter the most problems for some reason.

As for smoking, even smoking 100mg all at once is quite difficult. It would take very sophisticated technique and apparatus, or a lot of concerntration and willingness to take that much in without falling over. The good thing about smoking is that you can stop any time you want. As soon as you feel you don't want or need anymore, or can't hold your pipe, you just stop. But oral dosing or injecting won't let up if you decide you've had enough. It is possible to die if you eat too much dmt, or inject too much. Just saying, keep the dosing in a safe range. 100mg with RIMA's is a strong dose. 200mg is mega strong. Beyond that goes in to unsafe and unstudied territory, imo, and some might even say 200mg is more than anyone should need for the strongest possible trip.. All of the documented dmt studies I have read about use doses in the 30-50 mg range.
 
WSaged said:
Are you sure this "heavy pressing" you feel is not just you clinging hard to your physical body instead of letting it go, surrendering & moving forward into whatever happens?
Click to expand...

Difficult question to answer. I've felt a lot of weird things and I experienced some really strange situations in the past while on DMT. Some of these situations tend to induce fear and sometimes I repeat to myself: I will never do this again. Never! But this time, it happened so quickly, so strong and was not "just" a psychologically pain but also a physically pain too. I think I ever expected to feel some physical pain.

That's what happened in a few seconds: I barely had time to drop the pipe. It's was much intense! I was pushed backwards feeling a strong pressure on my head. My head began to be pressed on all sides, even my thoughts were being pressed, packaged, compressed in a very strong, very intense way. I thought: My God, is there something even stronger than everything I've felt up to today?!? And my stomach... pain. And that weird sound, continually increasing, something is going to explode. Immediately I panicked because something was not right, something did not look good. Desperately... I thought about my daughter and my wife... and my head being crushed... and my stomach burning... a heart attack? I do not know what to think... I could not remember the symptoms of a heart attack! I just want it to end soon... I will never do that again... No! May be it is a stroke! Everything is so fast.

Then came the breakthrough and I was pulled into the DMT universe. But I do not want to trip! I want to come back to reality, I want to make sure I'm alive! But I was unable to move myself. And this intrusive universe... then I opened my eyes. I was unable to see straight, multiple layers of reality, and I still feel the pressure in my head. I am being pulled back to the hyperspace. I resist firmly. I need to keep my sanity. I can not give up. Otherwise I will die.

WSaged said:
Next time do not fight it at all, just breath & observe & accept.
I know that's much easier said than done, but that's all you can do, so practice.
Click to expand...

I'll remember your words.


WSaged said:
You are not your body!!!
It is only a vehicle for this world!!
I mean this literally!! DMT or not!
Think about this a bit!! Feel your body & feel your thoughts...are they the same?
Where is the you, inside your body?
Close you eyes, relax & try to quiet the constant running monologue of thoughts.
Where are you now? Not your body...you...that core of consciousness that is always there!! Where is it?
Click to expand...

Oh, that's amazing! You reminded me of Burroughs:

Burroughs said:
To reach the Western Lands is to achieve freedom from fear. Can you free yourself from fear by cowering in your physical body for eternity? Your body is a boat, to lay aside when you reach the far shore. Or sell it if you can find a fool. It's full of holes. It's full of holes.
Click to expand...

I promise I'll meditate deeply about everything you said. Your words are already being immensely important and enlightening.

Thank you very much WSaged. Thank you with all my heart.
 
Thank you for all this information Apoc. They dispel the fear even further.

I want to take the opportunity to confess that yesterday I read several of your reports. They are fantastic! I was immediately identified with your words and experience, feeling myself expressed into many aspects of your journey.
 
ubu said:
Hahaha, Sally. This is more insane than DMT!
Click to expand...


Ha! yeah, makes me want to season her up & throw her on a grill!!:twisted:


Ubu, I have to say that with what you just posted, it seems you are hanging hard to fight it, every step of the way!
As you've seen....that ain't gonna happen!
And in fact makes the struggle more & more difficult, the more you fight it!

You'll be surprised at how welcoming it can be when you just let it all happen...same as life!

Imagine trying to hold onto a wounded, scared animal so you can protect it from hurting itself even more, or running away.
All you are trying to do is calm it down & help it, but it is terrified of you...so it kicks & fights with every bit of power it has, getting more & more frightened & freaked out as you hold tighter & tighter so it can't get away.
But if it would just calm down & trust you, for just a second, it would be comforted & cared for...even eventually healed.

^^Same exact thing!^^
You are the animal...this powerful experience is holding you tight!!


Also, are you closing your eyes & laying down comfortably in a quiet, somewhat dark environment, where you can let all of your physical senses go....without being disturbed by any of them?
If not, you should be!

BTW, You are not trying to hide this from the wife you just mentioned are you?
Because right there is an giant issue you need to fix, before you can truely let go into this!
Especially if she is in the house with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cheers!
WS
 
I've also had my head pressed by it. On one intense experience my head felt like it split into three pieces and two of them passed through each other. After my head came back together another pressure pressed on my head soo hard it warped it like it was made of clay. The pressure was pressing up on the right side and down on the left. It moved from the back of my head to the front like a wave. It didn't really hurt but the force was far stronger than anything a human could produce.

I also had my body completely destroyed on over 5 grams of shrooms once. It started with my fingers. I watched them fall apart in little pieces then my arms and then everything just atomized and I went through a very intense ego death. It ended up being a very healing trip.
 
ubu said:
Thank you very much WSaged. Thank you with all my heart.
Click to expand...

You are truely welcome! Good luck!



Oh, and that noise you are talking about is very common, it is sometimes called the "carrier wave".
As it rises, so do you!
Next time, notice you don't hear it with your ears...but it comes from inside!
So Trust It! Ride it!
Your not going to explode!


WS
 
I think I can understand what you mean Ubu. It's not the "usual ego death" experience. When it's more of a PHYSICAL symptom, so to speak, then of course you become a lot more uncomfortable, panicky, and fearful. Basically, what it sounds like you're describing, is as if someone started stabbing you, or punching you, right after you took a DMT hit. You probably wouldn't be ready for the DMT universe if your mind is preoccupied with the beating/pain you just took. I can understand this because with my experience, and this only happens with DMT for some reason, as I try to inhale it, I feel my throat getting tighter and tighter; and I almost feel like if I take anymore I'm gonna kill my lungs and not be able to breathe, because it's such a strong discomfort/pain. This has been a major factor in limiting my ability to breakthrough on spice.

So, I really don't know what to advise you. Most people say to just accept it and whatnot, but I think that's a VERY hard thing to do if you're experiencing discomfort on such a level. It's one thing to just accept it and ride it out when it's simply psychological traumas (like complete disassociation, ego loss, etc); but it's definitely another when your body is feeling immense pain like you describe and there doesn't seem to be any way around that. I really feel for you, it's as if your body is trying to send some kind of a signal, who knows...

All I can say is that I hope you can somehow figure out a way to work through it, or better yet eliminate that part completely and have a more enjoyable experience. There's a limit to how far one should "just push through it". There's always the possibility that it's your body simply telling you that this is not right for you?

I, personally, wouldn't suggest for you to just keep doing it and "riding out" the immense pain you've been feeling. I wouldn't want to imagine myself, or anyone else in that state, and no matter how well your set and setting are, if you know something like this is going to happen, then it pretty much nullifies all the rest. Perhaps work with smaller doses and try to identify the pain more. Could your spice be impure? Does it happen at lower doses as well? Maybe a step by step approach will be more successful, rather than simply jumping off the cliff again and again hoping to avoid it.

Just my thoughts, my thoughts are with you, and I really do hope you somehow get over this since it seems very unpleasant! :(
 
Well I speak from years of experience & the experience of turning on probably close to 100 friends over the past 3-4 years.

If your mind is clinging mercilessly to the physical, it makes total sense that you feel physical discomfort & that it is amplified to a disturbing point when you go into..."oh-my-god-I-can't-handle-this" mode.
This is nothing new, or unique.

Everything I've read above...including reply's...are classic signs of "I can't surrender myself".
Rule #1 with DMT...is to surrender. How has fighting it been going?
Unfortunately some people are so ingrained in the physical it is extremely hard to ever comprehend anything else.
Even when under the influence of a powerful, mind changing psychedelic like DMT.

This is the basis of meditation...no psychedelics need be involved.
Sitting & letting go of all these physical attachments, giving up all concerns with control or thought & letting it be...NOW.
This is not easy with the way we are raised & even harder the older you get, as you become so accustomed to believing your are just a pile of meat with thoughts, that breaking away from this seems absolutely impossible.
But it is 100% possible. People have been doing it since humans have been recording history.

I'm really curious as to whether or not Ubu's wife is on board with Ubu's DMT use & consciousness exploration.
DMT is a kind of miror & it gets to heart of the issues pretty quick, but it's up to you to recognize this when it's happening & remedy the situation!!!
This is why people are always talking about how DMT helped them straighten out & live a more fulfilled & loving life.
DMT can hold up a mirror...but you have to recognize yourself in it & bring your own peace.



On the other hand, strong psychedelics are not for everyone.
We all have our own road to pave.


Man I'm really wearing out my keyboard today huh?!?!?!😉
WS
 
WSaged, you are right. I really fought fiercely. And worst of all: it was not in a brave mode, but in a desperate mode. Now I have an assignment: learn to let go.

I have my own space at home, relatively comfortable though far from perfect. My wife knows about DMT. She's not my sitter, but she is prepared to possibly assist me in some difficult moment. But it's true: I still feel more "free" when she is not around.
 
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