Roasting Rue / Peganum Harmala

[artificer]

I did a subject search for "roast" with the specific interest of finding posts about roasting Syrian Rue (Peganum Harmala) seeds, and only found two threads on this topic. I'm doing my first Rue roast & tea tonight, and wanted to share couple things about it.

First, I am only just now drinking it so cannot say yet how effects are, but will certainly report back on this. But I can tell you the taste is much better than "tolerable". It has been described in other posts as tasting "good" - and somehow after my tastebuds were subjected to the bitter non-roasted rue flavor, I found it difficult to accept it would actually taste good. To my pleasant surprise, their reports were accurate.

I modified the roasting process a bit. I roasted 2.1 grams of seed on thick stainless frypan over gas stove for estimated 6 minutes til considerable popping occurred, then added couple tablespoons of grapeseed oil (good for high heat) and continued to heat and stir for another few minutes. I was afraid I burned it... but good flavor of end result would say otherwise.

I transferred to small stainless pot with two coffee cups worth of water and squeezed a bit of fresh lemon in there. I did not do the 5+ pulls like were mentioned here, but instead did one single rapid boil that reduced original volume of water 50%, so it all fit in my mug.

I filtered the solids out and ended up with tan/brown colored water which I added packet of Tazo Dream Tea. I was ready to add honey like I normally do, but decided to taste it first and to my delight I really liked it, so never added the honey.

Anyone else play around with different roasting/brewing styles? Any significant flavor/potency differences found? I just hope I didn't take away from desired effects with too much heat.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'm drinking mine now

You may need to increase your starting amount to about 3g for noticeable effects. Let us know how it goes.

I roast mine until all of then have popped, then dump them into a pot of boiling water (and cover with lid) . I remove it once it's a nice brown color. I have a neat little tea steeper that drains the tea through a filter on the bottom. When ready to pour one's tea, set the steeper ontop of the mug where a release moves up and allows the tea to drain out. I'm a honey fiend lol. And I drink mine with two bags of sleepytime extra .

One love

 

[artificer]

Nice

Yeah I barely felt anything last night, but also fell asleep soon after. Though I was happy to be dreaming and aware of it.

Will try 3g tonight, and see how it tastes mixed with the Silene capensis

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I would think that adding oil to the roasted seeds will greatly hinder the solubility of the alkaloids and is thus best avoided. Dry roast the seeds, then brew them like coffee.

I would also suggest that getting to know the rue tea by itself might be a good idea, before adding any other things. At a suitable dose it is an experience in and of itself.

 

[artificer]

Yes, I skipped the oil when roasting them last night and still tasted good. Definitely felt more but I also used 3 grams of seeds instead of 2.... I may have to try once with oil and 3 grams strictly for comparison.

I experienced the harmala extract last weekend with strong, lasting effects and it had great standalone cognitive influence; I'd like to establish how to brew the tea strong enough to get close to where I was at with the effects of the extract. Unfortunately, the extract was in two doses, spaced several hours apart, and I'm not sure yet how many mg to get to same level in a single dose.

Is there any difference at all in effects between tea and extract? I'm now thinkin need to save extract just for smoakn and sublingual.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Is there any difference at all in effects between tea and extract?

I found the plain ole tea to be in some way more forgiving. My Manske'd alkaloids were somehow harsh by comparison - but they only went through the single Manske cycle and no other purification so I don't know if that factors in.

 

[artificer]

Interesting. After reading bits and pieces of other threads on this topic, there seems to be some hinting at reduction in harmaline when roasting the seeds. If this is the case, it should be more forgiving on the stomach (if that's what you meant?) with better harmine:harmaline ratio.

Either way, I've got some ginger candies on the way to try helping stomach out with next higher dose of rue tea and/or harmala extract. Hopefully stomach will just get more used to it over time, because I like the rest of the effects.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I find a lot less nausea with tea than freebase beta-carboline alkaloids. Tastes so much better too :lol:

One love

 

[Sabnock1990]

Interesting. After reading bits and pieces of other threads on this topic, there seems to be some hinting at reduction in harmaline when roasting the seeds. If this is the case, it should be more forgiving on the stomach (if that's what you meant?) with better harmine:harmaline ratio.

Either way, I've got some ginger candies on the way to try helping stomach out with next higher dose of rue tea and/or harmala extract. Hopefully stomach will just get more used to it over time, because I like the rest of the effects.

Ime, it does seem like there's a reduction in Harmaline content when roasting the seeds. Idk why, idk if the heat may be degrading it or what, but i did notice that roasting the seed and then powdering it up and encapsulating and consuming it, that i didn't feel the Harmaline, but i did feel the Harmine, yet when i went back to raw seed powder capsules or the extract, i could feel the Harmaline again.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Went ahead and busted out TIHKAL for this one. The section on harmaline (book two, page 452 to 453 for what's presently being discussed), Shulgin speculates that over time harmaline may lose a molecule of hydrogen and become harmine. And that may be more chemically stable aromatic beta-carboline. Regardless, it seems like degradation. Adding heat can be q degradation process, so when making rue tea, it's possible that some hydrogen molecules are lost in the process and in turn the alkaloid content degrades from however much harmaline to however much harmine.

One love

 

[artificer]

huh, looks like I need to order that book. Is it "TIHKAL: The Continuation"? Any other books I should have around for reference?

This all has my interest! TBH I don't know what q degradation means yet but I will read up on it. It all sounds good in theory - there's got to be something to the roasting; it works. 2 hours into tea with 3.7 grams of roasted seeds, definitely nice, feelin it and no nausea. :thumb_up:

 

[Voidmatrix]

huh, looks like I need to order that book. Is it "TIHKAL: The Continuation"? Any other books I should have around for reference?

This all has my interest! TBH I don't know what q degradation means yet but I will read up on it. It all sounds good in theory - there's got to be something to the roasting; it works. 2 hours into tea with 3.7 grams of roasted seeds, definitely nice, feelin it and no nausea. :thumb_up:

I'm so sorry, that was supposed to "a" not "q;" a degradation.

Yup, that's the one. PIHKAL is too. You should go rummaging around in here.

Ain't it great?

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

The chemical bits of P/TIHKaL are both available for online perusal at Erowid and elsewhere (IsomerDesign?) but there's plenty of interesting stuff in the "novel" part of each book as well as several appendices so it's well worth getting hold of a paper copy.

And a sneak preview of something I've tried recently - a 24h reduction of rue tea with magnesium ribbon and ascorbic acid produces a refreshing drink. At worst, one is consuming magnesium gluconate - and perhaps notably, some of the brown crud is precipitated from the solution and this precipitate smells for all the world like soggy burnt toast. One trick is to use only just enough acid for a steady but not vigorous evolution of bubbles. Hydrogen bubbles are indicative of a waste of electrons that could have reduced harmaline molecules to THH. More on that elsewhere, sometime.

Anyhow, with that in combination with the putative thermal degradation of harmaline to harmine we get (tbc) an alkaloid profile more in line with that of a caapi brew.

 

[Voidmatrix]

The chemical bits of P/TIHKaL are both available for online perusal at Erowid and elsewhere (IsomerDesign?) but there's plenty of interesting stuff in the "novel" part of each book as well as several appendices so it's well worth getting hold of a paper copy.

I second this. I crack both books open often. Book one of each (PIHKAL and TIHKAL) are rich in both robust storytelling and invaluable information. Book two is dense with chemical technicalities and qualitative reports relative to a whole big bunch of psychopharmacological molecules.

One love

 

[artificer]

I'm so sorry, that was supposed to "a" not "q;" a degradation.

lol. This cracked me up - and you can be sure to find future references to q degradation, I'll sneak it in somewhere

Yup, that's the one. PIHKAL is too. You should go rummaging around in here.

Ain't it great?

One love

Awesome, that's great link. And yes I'm diggin Rue tea.

 

[artificer]

The chemical bits of P/TIHKaL are both available for online perusal at Erowid and elsewhere (IsomerDesign?) but there's plenty of interesting stuff in the "novel" part of each book as well as several appendices so it's well worth getting hold of a paper copy.

ok, I'm sold. I checked it out on Erowid, and it's nice that it's available there but just not the same. Authors deserve $ and my bookshelves deserve these books.

And a sneak preview of something I've tried recently - a 24h reduction of rue tea with magnesium ribbon and ascorbic acid produces a refreshing drink. At worst, one is consuming magnesium gluconate - and perhaps notably, some of the brown crud is precipitated from the solution and this precipitate smells for all the world like soggy burnt toast. One trick is to use only just enough acid for a steady but not vigorous evolution of bubbles. Hydrogen bubbles are indicative of a waste of electrons that could have reduced harmaline molecules to THH. More on that elsewhere, sometime.

^^^^^^/follow^^^^^^^^

Anyhow, with that in combination with the putative thermal degradation of harmaline to harmine we get (tbc) an alkaloid profile more in line with that of a caapi brew.

I haven't had caapi brew yet, but I'm so glad the Rue seeds are readily available, fairly cheap, multiple uses so not as suspicious to buy (not that that will keep me from purchasing caapi one day :twisted: )

 

[RowRowRow YourBoat]

I have followed Sabnock's advice from over on The Shroomery

Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board

Or is that pretty much unavoidable? I have some good bark I want to try orally.

www.shroomery.org

For roasting the whole Rue seed, i usually just put a bunch on a pan, trying to cover the pan but get them evenly spread out so they're not like too much on top of each other, then i put them in an oven pre-heated to 350 degrees f for about 17 to 19 minutes. The time and temp is just what i do so feel free to experiment around with the time and temp, but be careful that you don't burn them. You'll notice when they're roasted because the color will be more of a light brownish color and smells a bit like peanut butter or chocolate or something, compared to the smell and color of raw Rue seed. Then when they're cooled down a bit i grind them up in a coffee grinder bit by bit until it's all powdered, and store the powder in a container or bag, it seems to keep for a good long while, i've had some powder in a bag for like at least 6 months i think and it still seems good. Then i encapsulate them by using a gram scale, putting however many empty capsules i'm gonna fill up on the gram scale, tare it (to account for the weight of the capsules+the lid which is what i put the capsules in so they don't roll away while sitting on the scale), then i take the empty capsules and scoop the Rue seed powder into it, packing the seed powder as tightly as possible using a drill bit, i fill the big part of the capsule up as fully as possible, and then fill the cap up about halfway or a little more than halfway, then cap it, kinda twisting/pushing the capsule together to make sure it's good and closed. I use 00 capsules btw, but 000 capsules may work better for some people, for me 2 00 capsules weighs about 2 to 2.3 grams depending on how tightly i pack it.

I do this in 4oz batches(how big my bags of syrian rue I buy are) and didn't notice a decrease in potency with the first batch but did with the second batch but I attributed this to being a different bag of rue which I hadn't actually tested raw so I couldn't say for sure. Although I have gone on to do harmala extractions I tend to just stick to rue and I haven't actually taken the time to learn the differences between harmine and harmaline so I couldn't speak to that.

Either way, I've got some ginger candies on the way to try helping stomach out with next higher dose of rue tea and/or harmala extract. Hopefully stomach will just get more used to it over time, because I like the rest of the effects.

If nausea is your issue I can wholeheartedly recommend limonene(which I also learned from Sabnock), I take one or two 500mg capsules at the same time I dose rue and I have never had nausea on rue since. Limonene is absolute magic for us syrian rue lovers who don't care to purge.

 

[artificer]

Thank you RRRYB, I'm on The Shroomery too but haven't looked at Rue/Harmala topic there yet.

I just took two tums, I normally never get acid reflex/indigestion, and although I did have some Rue tea in last hour, the need to burp seemed to start before the tea. I've read some posts here with similar phenomenon, where the pre-trip jitters (I want to try to achieve first DMT breakthrough tonight) seem to bring on the need to burp but not be able to burp.

I'm headed to grocery store, kinda doubt I'll find the limonene but I'll certainly look for it. Else I'll order online. In the meantime I had unopened bottle of Tums, hopefully no negative interactions there?

Thanks again for the pointers!

 

[RowRowRow YourBoat]

Thank you RRRYB, I'm on The Shroomery too but haven't looked at Rue/Harmala topic there yet.

I just took two tums, I normally never get acid reflex/indigestion, and although I did have some Rue tea in last hour, the need to burp seemed to start before the tea. I've read some posts here with similar phenomenon, where the pre-trip jitters (I want to try to achieve first DMT breakthrough tonight) seem to bring on the need to burp but not be able to burp.

I'm headed to grocery store, kinda doubt I'll find the limonene but I'll certainly look for it. Else I'll order online. In the meantime I had unopened bottle of Tums, hopefully no negative interactions there?

Thanks again for the pointers!

Thanks to a few Shroomery members repeatedly touting the benefits of syrian rue (both by itself and combined with shrooms or even dmt) for a while it seems interest and discussion surrounding it has been growing for a while over there.

I wish you the best of luck with your attempt at a breakthrough. Since I was so familiar with rue from psilohuasca experiences I jumped on trying it very early after only a few DMT experiences not really sure what I was getting in to, I also perhaps dosed a bit much DMT for my first time with the combo too, but oh boy was it something. Here is my experience report on my first time with the combo if you care to see A Purely Somatic Trip - Feeling Everything Everywhere, Blind From Sensation - First steps in Hyperspace - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[artificer]

Good read, I bet it was something - 35mg on e-mesh with the syrian rue, wowza.

I'm getting another batch of mushies started tomorrow but out right now besides some capsules closing in on 2 years old - surprisingly still potent, but not like fresh. Trusted an ex-gf too much, she stole many ozs and left me with hardly any, broke my heart (although there's a part of me excited to think how many people tripped on my babies, paranoia would've kept me from selling them otherwise)