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Roots of Addiction

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HumbleTraveler777

Rising Star
What are nexians views on addiction?

I'm currently under the impression that "addiction" is essentially a SINGLE coping skill.

Addiction is using a SINGLE behavior or substance to make the user feel good when they are experiencing distressing emotions. The "addictive" action is a way of restoring ones control over their emotional state. Feelings that trigger the "addictive" action are namely anger caused by feelings of helplessness or powerlessness.

I think the "addictive" behavior starts to become problematic when the user starts experiencing the consequences of having such a narrow means of coping or feeling good. (putting on weight from excessive eating, severe debt via gambling, short term memory problems via drug use, drunk driving charges etc).

The "addict" then views his "addiction" as the problem instead of the feelings of powerlessness that drive his or her behavior. 12 step programs are largely ineffective as they focus on abstinence from the behavior (im sober for today) NOT THE FEELINGS DRIVING IT!

The catch phrase once an addict always an addict is RUBBISH!

I prefer once a human that has to deal with emotional pain always a human that has to deal with emotional pain.

The solution to avoiding the cumulative detrimental effects of any pleasurable behavior would be to have a wide variety of actions that bring the "addict" pleasure.

What im getting at is the roots of addiction is emotional pain, feelings of anger are part of being human. Therefore the "root" of addiction can be effectively managed by having a wide variety of coping skills and activities that make one feel good (while avoiding the cumulative effects of a particular avenue of pleasure) while also taking action working directly at the issue that is causing the feelings of anger powerlessness etc.

Would appreciate some feedback!
 
Humble Traveler, i think that you've put it quite well, your feelings on the subject correlate with mine. I have extensive experience with addiction, and for a very long time i struggled with gaining any kind of understanding of what addiction is and why I'm addicted, which without that knowledge, made it very difficult for me to overcome it on anything but a superficial and temporary level. I could get clean, but staying that way proved next to impossible.

With the help of psychedelics i was finally able to see truth of the matter, at least on a personal level. Prior to that, i had nearly given up on myself as i would continually relapse. In the twelve step modality, which is the only treatment i was able to access, i was told that I'm "too smart to recover", "to fake it until i make it", to "take the cotton out of my ears and stuff it in my mouth" among other bumper sticker platitudes all designed to impart the view that one is powerless over the addiction and that it is a disease that only god can fix.

The lines of thinking that twelve step programs promote and propagate is dangerous and out dated. It kills people, if you ask me; while that sounds like gross hyperbole, i believe it to be true. I felt after years of failing to gain any kind of grip on my heroin addiction through those programs that i was destined to die addicted. Like i said, i was near giving up, and I'm not the only one who has ever felt that way. The success rates for twelve step programs for heroin addicts mirror the rates of spontaneous remission-in the single digit percentile.

I don't have a citation, but the common knowledge is that heroin addicts in particular have three-in-four odds in favor of dying from a cause directly related to the use of their drug of choice or the lifestyle it necessitates; in other words, a 75℅ mortality rate. No other population faced with such dire survival odds would be asked to accept such ineffective treatment options. Now that thete are more white people dying from opiate addiction than brown skinned ones, it's been dubbed a crisis and maybe therefore these intolerable numbers will be stressed and meet with some real ideas for change.

I was lucky enough to have had knowledge of and access to a humble little molecule and through it and a lot of hard work on my part I've been able to be free of heroin and methadone for longer than I've ever been. I've found a passion for life that was missing before, and been able to find love for myself that makes it viable for me to make positive change.

These things (not the drug, the love and passion) are not promoted through NA, blind faith to an anthropomorphic God, and allegiance to their cult are. It's as if the allopathic mindset of addressing symptoms over cause and ignoring possible cures to ensure the continued survival of the twelve steps over that of those in it is in play above board. I could go on and on and on about the harms promoted through the twelve steps, from the idea that one is powerless to the demand that one stop the use of all mind altering substances (other than caffeine, nicotine, or any number of psych drugs-it's okay to mess with your mind and body as long as one doesn't derive any pleasure from it). I've even heard that some sponsors demand that their sponsees stop listening to rock and roll music, since much use been composed and performed while under the influence, and because we all know that led Zeppelin is the cause of all out woes.

Not until i was able to shut up and out the influence of this thought on mine was i able to see the root causes of MY addiction and to begin the long painful process of addressing them. Unfortunately it's been harder than it needs to be since it's almost a purely auto didactic practice. There is not a lot of resources within the recovery community/industry to support the idea of pharmacologically aided recovery unless you're talking about SSRIs, mood stabilisers, anti psychotics and the like. How these are not considered 'mind altering' is beyond me. It seems people in this backwards country at least have some real issues with feeling good. They are more than willing to ingest pharmaceuticals with terrible side effects in exchange for dubious results, but good lord, we can't have anyone smoking pot to lessen symptoms of depression or the like- they might feel good!

Personally, i really enjoy getting high. It's natural to me and honestly most of the bad consequences I've endured could have been avoided if i wasnt fed so much politely motivated disinformation. The only drugs i use nowadays are pot with regularity and very occasional psychedelics (but i only do that with clear intent). I find that marijuana is especially helpful in alleviating symptoms of depression and other feelings that led me use heroin, and it meets my needs for a 'head change', if I'm craving something harder, a of yep always takes care of it.

I began using heroin on my own, no peer pressure was involved, i sought it out and used it at first entirely on my own as was my intro to most drugs, including pot, cocaine, and psychedelics. Alcohol was the only one that was given to me by others. With the others, I've either stopped using once my experimentation was over or developed an alliance with it like my use of marijuana. I had a familiarity with the drug from hedonistic experimentation, and knew that it would be effective in doing so, and it was only after a horrific and traumatic event that i turned to heroin on order to alleviate the symptoms of PTSD in a vacuum of real therapy options. It took years fur me to develop a true addiction, and by then it was firmly entrenched and took up a large part of my life

I seek now to try to raise awareness of the inefficacy of the treatment modalities currently pushed by the courts and by any social service agencies the states, as well as promote the intentional use of psychedelics to address any of the conditions that we Westerners find us afflicted with that hold us back from materializing out true potential. If i had but tried this method, i would be dead right now, instead i just died.

I'm sorry, i didnt mean to ramble on so long, hope some of that made sense. But yes, your ideas are pretty spot on in my opinion. My rant is in response to the common mindset that pervades this society and the thinking around addiction, which is so often backwards and ill informed. It says something that a person who struggled so hard for so long knew so little about what he was drowning in to be able to save himself before orbitals damage occurred. All of the 'ifs' in this equation are hard for me to think about, all the pain that didn't have to happen, all the people that didn't have to be hurt, all the years that didn't have to be lost-and that's just my story. It's time things change, it may be too late for me in many ways, but maybe my struggle can help others avoid some of the hellish consequences i live with in their lives if i share what I've found that works.
 
null24, Awesome response! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I think you might have a good book in you. I also have extensive experience with addiction and feel I am finally starting to understand it. For years I thought meditation and psychedelics alone would be the cure, but ive finally accepted this is not going to work for me. I need to feel things! To experience to have something to look forward to. I now realize that meditating to attain some kind of lasting "enlightenment" is a delusion, this has lead me to start pursuing a plethora of enjoyable activities. To really start engaging with life.

I went to a 12 step meeting once and though there were some positive aspects to the 12 steps (namely gratitude, and making right with people) there was no way I could EVER swallow the first step (that I was powerless over my addiction). Absolutely absurd. Such a ludicrous dangerous dis empowering foundation.

I agree peoples lives could be lost because of the ideology they deliver. The 12 step model is really the only thing society offers and its still growing. They're in every city with all sorts of different facets now (AA NA SA weed anon etc).

Society needs to endorse a method of treatment that works. I can think of no better method then psychedelic assisted psychotherapy. For me, personally treating myself with psychedelics has been a bit of a roller coaster. Theres been tremendous personal growth over the years but I think it could have been a lot smoother.
Its easy to develop delusions and cling to some new spiritual ideology as ultimate truth once everything you've believed to be true dissolves. Life got lonely as hell once I saw how hollow the alcohol fueled weekend party culture was. And how 90 percent of the media is absolute garbage. I no longer could relate to people, my friends just made me angry and sad.

I would have found it incredibly beneficial to have a readily available system to follow instead of carving one out in the dark by myself. And stumbling down a myriad of paths that didn't work but hey I learned a lot and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. I would like nothing more then to assist people find the light themselves and share my trials and errors with them.
 
In addiction we deal with purity;

an ordeal, to test how pure our vision of the light can remain.

Once we are aware of an addiction,
every time you indulge will be a choice made out of pure will

If you do not have this choice, there is no free will;

Wouldn't that make you a slave Neo?
 
I've visited many types of 12 step progams.. Including emotions anonymous (EA) , narcotics anonymous (NA) and alcoholics anonymous (AA).

I went to a lot of different groups, as I was desperate.

I would be careful before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

There just simply not enough people at EA, and the NA meetings I attended were very sick indeed... I would agree, dangerous even.
The one I stuck with for the longest time was AA, because I found wisdom there with some members (not all.).

In my own experience, those 'bumper sticker attitudes' are designed to initate a spiritual experience. Akin to a zen master humiliating a student in order for him to reach satori.

They are meant to be paradoxical, filled with riddle. Because we have to see for ourselves to really get it. It is no different from the zen tradition.

What do you mean 12 steps focus on abstinence, and not the feelings driving it? What do you think steps 4-9 are for? They show you who you really are. It spiritual journey, no different then any traditions throughout history. It is the same path as in Buddhism, or christian monastic , whatever you want. In fact, the last meeting I was at ( a month ago) was discussing just that, sobriety (spiritual growth) vs white knuckle and miserable abstinence.

I don't know where you are getting any of this anthropomorphic god stuff, sounds like you came out of catholic school...

Have you actually read the big book or attempted the steps? Or did you just walk into a few meetings hear some things you did not like and make up your mind? Because I am sure if you had, you wouldn't make such blanket claims.


In the big book of AA it reads:

Mind you, the book is around 100yrs old now, and back then christian dogma was pretty heavy, so for them to write this its PRETTY freaking liberal. Because they KNEW, just how dangerous it was, to help addicts.


"Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him."

"When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you. At the start, this was all we needed to commence spiritual growth, to effect our first conscious relation with God as we understood him."



There is a LOT I don't like about AA, that is for sure... I take psychedelics occasionally as part of my path, and AA instilled some undeserving guilt about that, But I do not blame them. That is on me. It is by far not the first thing i've guilted myself into...

But to disregard it completely? That is just plain ignorance. Some of the most spiritual wise people I have ever met, have been long term members of AA. They spend their days unquestionably helping whoever crosses their path... These people are the same people that allowed me to realize that there WAS another way to live.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
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in the month of April, 2014.

A long and hopeless binge on dissociative drugs, a weeklong blackout later. I had not eaten properly in weeks.
I had reached the end. The cusp of the void. I could smell death, the angel of death a cold touch ever present on my shoulder. There was nothing left here, there was nothing left in me. I was so totally and utterly empty.

This was a whole new level of hopelessness. This was complete and utter powerlessness.

Is step 1 really so hard to understand? Only in this moment, was it obvious to me.

In this very same moment, of complete powerlessness, complete abandon. I realized, that this very weakness, was my greatest strength.

And at this moment, i was filled something from within me, something I had not known was there but could recognize.

That day changed my life forever. I am forever grateful.

Alan Watts said:
And you don't even have to worry about 'will you be sure to let go of it?' because that too is a hang up. And you can begin, from your very weakness. That's your strength. Its not your big ego and your big will that is the strong thing here. It's your sloppiness, its your weakness, its your foolish side that is your strong suit here. Yokaidaishi puts it in this way: "You cannot take hold of it, you cannot get rid of it." In not being able to get it you get it. When you are silent it speaks, when you speak it is silent. The great gate is wide open. And nobody obstructing it.
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I don't know where you are getting any of this anthropomorphic god stuff, sounds like you came out of catholic school...

Have you actually read the big book or attempted the steps? Or did you just wallk into...
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I should have made it more clear that i was speaking of NA, but other anon traditions. Mindillusion, i would think from reading the post that you could fairly well gather that I've been to my share of meetings, worked steps, etc. If the post came off as sounding as ignorant as you seem to think it is, then i don't know what to tell you. It is purely my opinion, based on my observations .

I'm glad you've found some solace in the AA tradition, that's wonderful. It simply does not resonate with my worldview. For a long time i was on methadone, which for me was a lifesaver (i don't want to get into the problems associated with that atm), however when i went to meetings i has to keep it a secret. I smoke pot because i need it- i have pretty bad depression at times and smoking weed allows me to function-to eat and sleep kind of function, i occasionally use psychedelics with intention for the three purpose of integrating what i learn about myself through their use. None of these things are tolerated within the twelve step model. I practice a system of honesty and integrity and having to lie about what works in order to take oat in a social group (which is all it would be) does not work t within it.

As for the God-crack, actually, no, no Catholic school. As a matter of fact I've only been inside a church fur services once in my life, when i begged my parents to take me for an easter thing in second grade. All the kids at school were talking about this guy who got nailed to a piece of wood, died and came back, and i wanted to experience the wonder associated with such a remarkable story. I expected something completely different than what i observed and I've never been back. At once, i understood why my mother sighed so loudly when i asked to go.
 
null24 said:
I'm glad you've found some solace in the AA tradition, that's wonderful. It simply does not resonate with my worldview. For a long time i was on methadone, which for me was a lifesaver (i don't want to get into the problems associated with that atm), however when i went to meetings i has to keep it a secret. I smoke pot because i need it- i have pretty bad depression at times and smoking weed allows me to function-to eat and sleep kind of function, i occasionally use psychedelics with intention for the three purpose of integrating what i learn about myself through their use. None of these things are tolerated within the twelve step model. I practice a system of honesty and integrity and having to lie about what works in order to take oat in a social group (which is all it would be) does not work t within it.
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You connect AA meetings with the 12 steps, that is like saying the catholic church is the same thing as spirituality.

The 12 steps say nothing about what drugs you can and can't use, that is entirely for you to decide. It only lays down the principles you mentioned, honesty and integrity. It is simply the ancient traditions and practices compiled, very much resembling the Buddhist eight-fold path, quite literally, a step by step guide to your own spirituality.

Everything else is simply AA dogma. No more no less.

My solace is not within the AA tradition. It is within my own conscious contact of what I experienced, and continue to experience. But I do have great respect for them, despite their failings. As I would for anyone! Who am I to judge??

I came across that way because I was upset writing that post. I couldn't understand why someone would be so quick to stomp something so beautiful, that only exists to help people, all because of a few bad experiences and run in with some sick people.


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hug46 said:
It's possible that fetal exposure is linked to the development of certain personality traits that lead to addiction.
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heh, i've looked into this.

My mother seems to be a in a perpetual state of stress. Bless her heart, but she loves in way that I cannot imagine.

Sometimes I wish I could just say "Here mom, eat some mescaline, you don't have to keep holding on, because there is nothing to hold on to."
 
hi, sorry i come up late and would like to reply to the earlier posts.

So the very new idea (to me at least) you are bringing forwards HumbleTraveler, is that there is not a problem of addiction, there is a problem of not looking for additional sources of soothing.

This makes so much sense !!!

Here are random ideas that come up to my mind, one day this will maybe participate in describing the whole mechanism:

Soothing is not The solution, but gives relief, nothing wrong with that..
Your looking for relief could come from trauma or personal reason, OK.
Having only one source of relief gives you the feeling of not having a choice, making you a slave.
Having multiple sources of soothing gives you choices to make, thus making you at least a "rich slave".
Having the possibility to look for new sources of soothing, gives you the possibility of experimenting new things, succeeding and failing, thus making you a free man in the space out of your trauma.
Being free with the only fence around being the trauma, you've got a big pocket of freedom to live, explore, and find a way to understand and jump over the fences of your trauma.
The cultural guilt associated with so-called "addiction" is actually a prison if you believe it. Now you have a trauma, and that guilt that doesn't come from you, distracting you from telling yourself: "yeah, I feel stuck because the only thing that I know in these moments is ###, what if there is something else that I genuinely like as much as ### ?? "
If you concentrate on the guilt, you don't explore (unless you explore the guilt)
I think the key is exploration here. Blaming someone for an "addiction" is going to "cut is legs" and prevent him from exploring.
Exploring is life. Thus blaming for addiction is a mistake that can be fatal.

What if happiness is feeling free in your pocket of freedom?
What if growing up means jumping fences to expand your pocket of freedom, if and when you choose to, or when life gives you no choice anymore.
What if they are moments you feel there are no next fences and your only thing to do is just to be, enjoy, explore.
Yeah, maybe there will be another fence, but you're gonna jump it, and you will have been happy before, and you will be after.
And one day you will be good at jumping fences, and you could even like that.


If I believe my own story, it means... new stuff (although I now when I read this in one hour it will seem childish and stupid and narrow ^^)
It means... That having a problem is not a problem.
 
You connect AA meetings with the 12 steps
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Well, yeah.


. I couldn't understand why someone would be so quick to stomp something so beautiful, that only exists to help people, all because of a few bad experiences and run in with some sick peop
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There's really nothing quick about it. My observations were developed over years attending various meetings in various cities. There really weren't any specific "run ins", that suggests that my opinion is based upon personal encounters or confrontations with individuals and that is not the case. At one point i had a sponsor and found community within a AA group but became dismayed when i moved from that city and attempted to replicate what I'd found there in other groups and was meet with no success. I did find a lot of back biting and finger pointing, and didn't see alot of anything that i wanted. However, that does not mean that real recover does not exist within those rooms, it does, but in my experience it's been the exception, not the rule.

The 12 steps say nothing about what drugs you can and can't use, that is entirely for you to decide. It only lays down the principles you mentioned, honesty and integrity
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I have not read the Big Book cover to cover but am familiar with a lot of the literature. I cannot point to a passage that states that one should abstain from all mind altering substances-like you said it is not one of the twelve steps, but I'm certain that it's there and it is most definitely a part of the groupthink.


I guess one of my main issues is with how heavily it's promoted, despite the 'tradition' that takes a contrary position. Anyone entering the legal system for any infraction that may have something to do with drugs or alcohol is sent to these groups as part of their sentence or probation guideline, especially as part of a diversion. Often choices are given to attend other groups that don't even exist in reality, like Rational Recovery, which has very few actual physical meetings.

Many people see no connection whatsoever between spirituality and recovery, some take complete and full responsibility for it and dependence upon any religious school will not alleviate their suffering nor help them understand self destructive behavior. This central pillar of the twelve steps, along with the concept of powerlessness makes the system untenable for me at least. A level of spiritual awareness is very much a part of my personal system of understanding myself and the universe, but it has nothing to do with keeping me away from dope.

I would never suggest that what works for you shouldn't be applied by you to your self. If it works, it works, and that is great. Again, I'm very glad you've found something that helps.Please don't take any thing I've said as a personal attack. If i came off as snug, i apologize, i am glad you've found what you've found where you've found it.😉

However i am not alone in my feelings, and the efficacy rates that i mentioned that are similar to those of people who simply decide to quit using say to me that we need options. Simply put, the anon traditions are the only thing available to a vast number of people in need here in the states despite findings that don't reflect a commensurate level of effectiveness. There really needs to be more resources, and as as that goes i don't have an answer other than what I've found that works for me-which at this point is illegal. So... Yeah, maybe i should just shut up if i don't have better answers. Yes, I'm bitter, yes I don't really have a soft approach when it comes to this and i therefore apologize if I've offended you or anyone on a fundamental level.

Peace, be good to you!
 
I think it would be easy to know if there is truth in the theory two posts above: do our experiences confirm it or not?

For me I felt at the bottom and enslaved to a point at which I thought I would not recover, because I wanted to jump my fence just with the solution I choosed (psychedelics), and refused to do any other way. I enslaved myself. Then I had no other choice than giving up the psychedelics, went to speak with people about personal stuff (which was new to me), started opening to people (which I couldn't believe how enjoyable it was and how I could have not done it for so long), decided to try new stuff on my own, discovered therapies that worked for me (Internal Family System, it is great, you can do shamanic journeys with no plants, and with the right guy it is beautiful, you've got visions and all the good stuff :) ), discovered the people behind the therapies, discovered with these new people that I valued that the world was not so bad, generated interest in discovering more stuff, and more people, and trying more things.. That is the life to me now and I like it. And I still feel like at the bottom of the wall sometimes but I now there is going to be something to try that I have never done before.

So to me the theory that happiness comes from exploring, and distress from staying suck in the same things with no wish to find other good things sounds true, what about you?
 
bahleille said:
I think it would be easy to know if there is truth in the theory two posts above: do our experiences confirm it or not?

For me I felt at the bottom and enslaved to a point at which I thought I would not recover, because I wanted to jump my fence just with the solution I choosed (psychedelics), and refused to do any other way. I enslaved myself. Then I had no other choice than giving up the psychedelics, went to speak with people about personal stuff (which was new to me), started opening to people (which I couldn't believe how enjoyable it was and how I could have not done it for so long), decided to try new stuff on my own, discovered therapies that worked for me (Internal Family System, it is great, you can do shamanic journeys with no plants, and with the right guy it is beautiful, you've got visions and all the good stuff :) ), discovered the people behind the therapies, discovered with these new people that I valued that the world was not so bad, generated interest in discovering more stuff, and more people, and trying more things.. That is the life to me now and I like it. And I still feel like at the bottom of the wall sometimes but I now there is going to be something to try that I have never done before.

So to me the theory that happiness comes from exploring, and distress from staying suck in the same things with no wish to find other good things sounds true, what about you?
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Well said bahleille,

I can relate to you a lot, especially here:
For me I felt at the bottom and enslaved to a point at which I thought I would not recover, because I wanted to jump my fence just with the solution I choosed (psychedelics), and refused to do any other way.
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Addiction , it is the solution that we choose.

That is why it is frankly impossible to tell an addict they need to stop. Even to themselves. Because that would imply taking away the only thing left that gives meaning to their lives. This is my experience.

In the words of Gabor Mate:

Lately, I have come to experience and appreciate the difference between abstinence and sobriety. I've mentioned earlier that substance users cannot envision a life without their drug of choice. Since their addictions offer biochemical substitutes for love, connection, vitality and joy, to ask them to desist from their habits is to demand that they give up on the emotional experiences that make life worth living for them.
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This describes me to a tee, I am a textbook addict.

My addiction was expansive, but it indeed began with psychedelics. But I could not abuse psychedelics like I could other drugs, it was too difficult. Until I found ketamine, and other dissociatives. They were perfect for me, they were my solution. They brought me away like psychedelics, but I could use them as much as I liked without fear. Better, I could combine psychedelics with them, and as long as I had the dissociatives, I was safe.

As you can probably imagine, this quickly led to my impending doom.

What I have struggled with over the years, has been the use of psychedelics. I can't seem to get away from them. I've questioned this a lot, struggled more than I need to. I am just not ready to let go? Am I holding onto these for purposes of attachment? Am I substituting them for something? Are these helping me in my spiritual growth, or are they holding me back? I can never truly know for sure.

All I know is what I have experienced. I took a year off them, at the time I completely swore off them, along with everything else I had no problem swearing off (alcohol, cannabis, stimulants, mostly every abusable psychoactive).

Because I knew that It was inside of me. It wasn't in the psychedelics, it was in me. And for 6 months, it was as if I was on LSD everyday, it was amazing. Feeling like having a direct line of love, just floating, swimming with the current of the universe. I had a lot of help from mentors, a lot of guidance, I couldn't have wished for anything better.

went to speak with people about personal stuff (which was new to me), started opening to people (which I couldn't believe how enjoyable it was and how I could have not done it for so long), decided to try new stuff on my own,
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You have no idea!! I never realized how much of a people person I am, had never known! Once I started doing it, it all seemed so obvious, I couldn't help thinking, "Why did I never learn this??" because as 'smart' as I thought I was, and what everyone had told me! I knew NOTHING!

But soon, life happened, a relationship (which never truly even was one) ended badly, despite my honest efforts, things piled on one another, and I began to close off a little. But I knew it could never be as bad as it was before, because I knew deep down it was still there.

One day, I had the spontaneous desire to eat mushrooms, and I did, all while terrified I was acting out of addiction, trying to escape the feelings, but it turned out to be an incredibly healing experience, i had never felt closer to that thing within me.

And so it goes...

So to me the theory that happiness comes from exploring, and distress from staying suck in the same things with no wish to find other good things sounds true, what about you?
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Yes, sir. I believe so.
 
Mindlusion said:
hug46 said:
It's possible that fetal exposure is linked to the development of certain personality traits that lead to addiction.
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heh, i've looked into this.

My mother seems to be a in a perpetual state of stress. Bless her heart, but she loves in way that I cannot imagine.

Sometimes I wish I could just say "Here mom, eat some mescaline, you don't have to keep holding on, because there is nothing to hold on to."
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I would say that my mum is a stressed person and more than likely was when pregnant with me inside her and she has been on seroxat for years, my 2 sisters aswell. In fact all of my close family are medicated to the eyeballs apart from myself.

And ditto for giving them eye opening drugs, but i think that the only one of them that might be open to an experience like that would be my little sister.
 
I would say that addiction is built into the human condition. Ultimately, we don't get addicted to substances or even behaviors. We get addicted to states of consciousness or to certain states of brain chemistry to be precise.

I have dealt with my fair share of addiction emanating from myself, friends, family, and even partners. Blaming the drug or behavior is obviously misplaced and pointless. The modality of powerlessness is also misplaced but not entirely. Just imagine trying to fix anything while in a K-hole. It's pretty hopeless. This is an extreme example of a state of brain chemistry, but valid in that sometimes people can get into such a state that helping themselves is near impossible. That being said, this is rare but not black and white. It's a matter of how able they are to help themselves and how much they are willing to accept help.

To the roots of addiction, I think it is a sort of slow death. We find things that make us comfortable and happy and then sort of sit out on life. Life is a series of trials and tribulations. These are what define us as individuals. Addiction is being soothed into complacency and giving up on living. Even adrenaline junkies do this. It has nothing to do with energy level. It has to do with finding comfort in a familiar state of mind and becoming stationary in that state.

I would even go so far as to say that a majority of people in the modern world are addicts to their routine lives. Stability and convenience are held on to with such ferocity that people will risk their lives to avoid being shaken up. This is where psychedelics are so powerful in prying loose the very roots of addiction. The concept of powerlessness is most eminent in the idea that the brain is a sort of state machine that finds a will to hold on to a state. It's a self repeating cycle and a buffer to the buffered state. Psychedelics work by throwing a wrench into the machine. It breaks the cycle briefly but long enough to gain perspective. It gives the addict a real chance of breaking the cycle indefinitely.

12 step programs, AA, and the like are great for people who are already committed to breaking the cycle but are overall not very effective. I think that it is ultimately a chemical problem, specifically a chemical problem with our brains. So in the end, I believe that the best solution is chemical but just as with any sort of psychotropic treatment, to be most effective should be coupled with real mental engagement like therapy or group therapy.
 
Wow syberdelic..

I think you nailed it...

Reading your post sent chills down my spine.

I very much agree, it is slow death. It is exactly that, becoming stationary.

I would go as far as to say, that once you reach this state, you are already dead. Maybe not physically, but that's only a matter of time.. Everything else, is as good as dead. At least, this was my experience. Chilling.

It is like watching a petri-dish of bacteria, struggling , adapting, mutating, evolving, and then all of sudden just seeing it stop in one of these stages, instead of changing, just stopping.. it has stopped exploring.. and just dying.
It goes against the very principles of life, and evolution itself.

I believe too, the only way out of such a fatal state is to have a wrench thrown in, somehow disrupt that continual error loop.

Whether that is a mystical experience as the result of complete powerlessness or facilitated by a psychedelic, whatever works.

And perhaps depending on the severity of the 'error'.
We all can relate to this in some way, in our everyday lives and routines.

---

and hugs, yep I am with you there heheh, she would be totally down! the psychedelics can show you what its like to think like a child again heheh, I think that is the ultimate goal in this life in some way... to grow old and yet become more child-like, and perhaps less 'childish' heheh

Curiosity, creativity, playfulness.. A child-like go getter attitude heheh, these are the very driving forces of our existence
 
Aside from alcohol and benzos which physically demanded that I continue taking them what does it say about my brain that what I "craved" was just to get a change in not necessarily perspective but probably more just a stimulation (not in a stimulant sense)?

I was "poly", anything at anytime and all of it. I don't like being high/drunk, I like getting high/drunk. It's not hacking the reward system unless for me that is the reward.

What started with cannabis was revelation. Information started pouring in. And I know it's frowned upon here to talk religion, but "answers" started appearing. That combined with the social aspect (everyone is familiar with a few drinks opening you up), because I usually don't say much and usually when I communicate people aren't receptive because I don't care about the ball game, or what trump said, or the new movie.

I'm not substituting "love" or lack of social interaction. I find that ingesting chemicals activates my brain, and when your brain is turned on like a light who would want to turn the light off if your enjoyment is in seeing things?

Take my last 8 ball of cocaine for example (nov 2011). I clearly remember being high as gas and waiting to come down so I could activate my brain again. I didnt want to be sober, and I didn't want to be high, I wanted the middle territory of change. The actual changing.

It's like a breath of fresh air. The only thing I can think is that brains crave information (I would think) and that's like a flood of info. Sober is still, and once high the changing stops so that is also still. No reward in stillness.

So far the only "good/bad" is dependant on what spirit the chemical carries with it, and of course whether or not it's killing you in the process.

I wasn't substituting life experience, as being sober while out and about is still an unchanging brain (in my case). I can't think of a good way to say what I'm trying to.

Think of it like this. Binoculars, binos represent my mind and the focus wheel is the drug or alcohol. Spun too far to the left (sober), now slowly spin it to the right (high). The sweet spot in the middle is where everything gets clear. Too high and the focus is gone and too sober and the focus is gone. It's that act of spinning the wheel and catching the focal point where you can see (information flood aka good).

So looking back I can only blame addiction on the things like alcohol/benzos, that actually will kill you if you don't feed the beast. The rest was choice. So were the consequences of those others my willingness to sacrafice in order to see? I guess so.

With psychs that process seems to be less rapid up and down and a more stable up and down to where the "sweet spot" of information lasts longer also as it involves things that arent summed up with a little research, but more "untestable" and uncharted territories. So you could say the half-life is a good bit longer in that regard. They also tend to be much healthier in all regards.

So from an outsiders pov who has traditional understandings of what addiction is, my behavior would look like that of an addict. But what that was, was most likely never addiction at all. More like my way of cramming for a test. Of course that test being invisible to everyone except me who lives in my mind and nobody can step into my mind and see the diplomas hanging on those walls.

So aside from those such as benzos and alcohol where you're taking the antidote that contains the poision, what is addiction? It would seem to me that that question is one that only the individual person can answer and any sweeping generalizations are going to miss their mark the majority of the time.

I sure hope this post makes some kind of sense to you guys. All I can do is speak for myself. In regards to NA/AA or even going to a church or a simple conversation however, I'm usually a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle in a lot of people's eyes. So I tend to self study and do what works for me as accepting and professing things that I don't agree with is outside of my ability and that tends to piss "groups" off with a pretty steady predictability. I'd be lieing if I said I'm not intimately familiar with forced censorships and bans etc. But you guys seem pretty open minded so I'll go ahead and not just delete this post and act like I had nothing to say.
 
Ill second Mindlusion, spot on syberdelic. Its a death of the imagination, walling yourself off from change, a very mechanistic life, a living death.

Asher7 said:
I don't like being high/drunk, I like getting high/drunk. It's not hacking the reward system unless for me that is the reward.
Click to expand...

Dr.Gabor Mate describes it as the thrill of getting high. Theres something about surrendering to my cravings that can induce extreme feelings of euphoria, that usually taper off very shortly after getting high. T
 
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