Safety of Mescaline (and other cact alkaloids) + MAOIs ?

[endlessness]

So occasionally someone in the forum mentions mixing caapi/harmalas with mescaline or crude cact preparations.
How safe it this?

Can people who had personal experiences or saw others take this mixture, mention the doses and if there were any side effects?

Also can those with more pharmacological and medical knowledge tell us their opinion about this? And what about the other alkaloids in cact, phenetylamines, hordenine, different tyramines, etc, is any of them, if in larger quantities with MAOI, potentially dangerous?

 

[ouro]

I've seen many reports of mixing harmalas and full spectrum cactus, and never have I seen a dangerous interaction. Of course it could still be possible, but I think it's safe to say a bad interaction is rare. I wouldn't condone mixing them really, but if someone eats them around the same time there is little to worry about. Of course some people really enjoy mixing the two.

maois seem to have bad interactions with amphetamine drugs like MDMA. If there were an interaction between tyramine or even hordenine there would probably be a warning to that effect on pharmaceutical RIMAs. I don't know if they do or not.

 

[Jin]

i think this is where i can place my query , should someone who hates the effects of mdma do mescaline ? since i don't like mdma atall but recently have been interested in cactus ?

also looking forward to answers on harmala and cactus interactions , i am currently uneducated on the subject

 

[endlessness]

Jin, I really dont like mdma either and love cactus

 

[Jin]

thank you endlessness , your words have given me courage to explore in this direction
i understand if you say that , they must be quite different from each other , i am doing more homework on the subject now ,

 

[State of the Mind]

I have tried the combination before and have not noticed any ill effects . However, I was very cautious prior to taking this combination . Some Cactus does contain Tyramine, so there is a safety issue and it is definitely something that people should research before trying . But I do think that the risks are somewhat exaggerated sometimes . But to be honest, it is better to be safe than sorry . :d

I found that by ingesting Caapi + Cactus, the Cactus was made slightly more visual . And also, the trip itself lasted much longer with Caapi, which is not necessarily good, as the Cactus trip when ingested on its own can already be incredibly long, but that is a matter of preference .

Be sensible .

 

[۩]

I have never had any negative reactions with san pedro/peruvian torch and harmalas or ayahuasca. Universecannon recently coined the term "San Paapi" which I used to describe an evaporated tea made with San Pedro and Ayahuasca in the wiki under Cactus Preparation Tek. It's excellent medicine.

The only time I had a bad reaction was mixing achuma with cacao powder. I have no idea but for some reason I felt a minor case of seratonin syndrome that night. People claim there shouldn't be any contraindications here but I would be weary of doing it again. Also, someone once speculated it could have been a pesticide sprayed on the achuma. I doubt I will ever know.

 

[azrael]

2 grams syrian rue in tea form with 6" raw san pedro eaten whole gave me a 4 hour headache. Smoked harmalas and mescaline hcl had no ill effects whatsoever.

 

[MySmelf]

I have tried the combination before and have not noticed any ill effects . However, I was very cautious prior to taking this combination . Some Cactus does contain Tyramine, so there is a safety issue and it is definitely something that people should research before trying . But I do think that the risks are somewhat exaggerated sometimes . But to be honest, it is better to be safe than sorry . :d

Found a few references to tyramine and harmalas/RIMAs.

From erowid:

Tyramine is not believed to be dangerous with harmine or harmaline since it readily displaces either one. The harmala alkaloids are highly selective and highly reversible MAOIs. They are quite different than some of the prescription drugs such as Phenelzine (Nardil) or Tranycypromine (Parnate) which actually bind irreversibly to the MAO enzymes. With irreversible MAOIs, restoration of normal MAO metabolic function requires that more of the enzymes be produced by the body.

From wikipedia:

RIMAs are displaced from MAO-A in the presence of tyramine,[1] rather than inhibiting its breakdown in the liver as general MAOIs do. Additionally, MAO-B remains free and continues to metabolize tyramine in the stomach, although this is less significant than the liver action. Thus, RIMAs are unlikely to elicit tyramine-mediated hypertensive crisis, and a special diet does not need to be so strictly adhered to, although eating excessively large amounts of tyramine-containing foods is still not advisable.

 

[The Day Tripper]

Swim has no issues with extracted achuma alkaloids via the d-limo/fasw/acetone wash route, and extraced harmala hcl from rue. He has also taken mescaline fumarate with various types of ayahuasca vine to no ill affect. Granted, it has more of a bodyload and speedy sense to it in swims opinion compared to strait mescaline hcl, but with the advantage of requiring less mescaline, and a different experience with rimas.

Swim has also had achuma tea with a splash of aya added into the brew. This seemed more dangerous/toxic/headache inducing than the extracted mescaline fumarate, but does not have enough experience with the cactus to be certain this was the issue. He has decided however, that for other digestive issues with the tea, he's only going to partake in extracted cactus alkaloids in the future.