sativa vs. indica

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I've attached a recently published paper that may be of interest regarding the Cannabis sativa vs indica debate...I thought this was interesting as it touches on the terpenoids in cannabis which apparently are psychoactive in their own right, and are often overlooked with most attention focused on THC, CBD and the other cannabinoids.

I have heard that these terpenoids are destroyed when smoking but not when vaporising, and I have definitely noticed quite a significant difference in effect when smoking and vaping cannabis alone...I reliably find vaping can take me deeper in a visionary sense, but I remain clearer, more upbeat and find it easier to move around, converse and do things even in advanced stages of intoxication. Vaping has definitely made a really positive contribution to my experience of cannabis.

Most psychoactives are alkaloids (a core of carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen, can be rendered as a salt, and in most cases are basic rather than acidic, though the prerequisites for alkaloid qualification are murky and debated), however in the case of cannabis sativa/indica the active components are terpenoids...

...this is also the case with salvia divinorum' s active compounds which are terpenoid (diterpenoid)(trans-neoclerodane diterpenoids) as well

(THC and salvinorin-a actually share the shame three ring core, and are fairly similar in structure to one another, however cannabinoids are cannabinoid receptor agonists, while salvinorin compounds work mainly on the kappa opioid receptor, and were the first non-alkaloid compounds to be known to be agonists of this receptor site...)

Ok, back to cannabis,

I'm quite interested in these other terpene compounds found in cannabis.

THC,CBD,CBN,etc.. are all odorless...this means the smell and taste must be related to these other terpenoid compounds or other aromatic compounds present in the plant...

...and though this may sound I'll-thought, I think the smell and taste effect the subjective experience of the plant...and provided the terpenes responsible for taste and smell did turn out to be active in some way, or even acting as potentiating agents, this would lend some support to my observation.


-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Sativa vs. Indica is something one should be mindful of when it comes to marijuana, phenotypes, and strains are another aspect to be mindful of, though none of it makes any difference if the plants are poorly grown...

I think genetics are the smaller half of the battle, and one should be more mindful of how well the plant was grown... inspect the plant for light, water and nutrient deficiencies, inspect the plant for signs of molds, spider-mites, disease, and other parasites and health issues. next, inspect the plant for male flowers and signs of hermaphrodation, also inspect the bud for seeds that may have been formed by pollen exposure rather than hermaphodation. Next inspect the color of the trichomes (if they are 100% clear it was early harvested, if they are part clear and part cloudy it was harvested at the propped time, if they are Amber it's a late harvest), then comes smell and bud density as well oil content of the plant (stickyness)

...this all sounds like a lot, but I can determine all these factors with in 30 seconds or so examining the bud

Then after this inspection relating how well the cannabis as grown, I ask "is this sativa or indica?", "what is the "strain?" Etc...

To me good growth matters more than genetics or phenotyoe...I mean, I love sour diesel, it has a unique taste and smell, so this is a case where phenotype may matter, but if it's poorly grown I'll still pass it up...

As a grower sativa vs. Indica does matter, there's variations in size of the plants as well as grow times, preference of conditions by the plant, variation in light cycles, etc..for the grower this all matters...

...for the smoker I can't understand the point, other than if you really like a specific taste or smell of a specific phenotype...

Well grown vs. Poor grown seems more important than sativa vs. Indica...

Though in reality it's a combination of genetics of the plant, the environment and conditions the plant was grown in and the knowledge and care the grower provides for the plants, all these things must come together to produce truely fine marijuana.

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

An article regarding the sativa vs. Indica discussion:

------

There are many claimed differences between sativa and indica,

However, no scientific study has confirmed these differences, and there is some doubt about their accuracy. In fact, history suggests a much simpler difference between indica and sativa.

The original classification of Cannabis indica was made by French biologist Jean-Baptiste Lamarck in 1785.

Lamarck observed that certain marijuana plants from India were intoxicating and could be made into hashish. But traditional hemp crops, which were more common in Europe, had no mind-altering effect.


He came up with the name Cannabis indica to distinguish Indian cannabis from European hemp, which was known at the time as Cannabis sativa. Likewise, Cannabis indica was specifically recognized as a therapeutic in Western medicine during the 1800s.

Origin/Genetics

Scientists that have studied the differences between indica and sativa have come up with a number of theories based on genetics. One prevailing theory focuses on the genetic production of THC and CBD.

Plants that produce high levels of THC express genes that code for the enzyme THCA synthase. This enzyme converts CBG into THCA, which becomes THC when heated. These plants are typically considered indica.


On the other hand, some plants express genes that code for the enzyme CBDA synthase. This enzyme converts CBG into CBDA, the precursor of CBD, instead. These plants are typically considered sativa.

Based on this explanation, indica plants have high THC:CBD ratios and sativa plants have high CBD:THC ratios.

The problem is that, today, many strains produce varying amounts of both enzymes. Some researchers believe this is due to hybridization of the gene pools, which explains why some sativas are rich in THC and some indicas are not.


An alternate theory based on geographic origin has also been proposed. A common Cannabis species is thought to have originated from central Asia before separating into distinct sativa and indica gene pools.

Recent attempts to distinguish sativa verses indica have relied on a combination of geographical and genetic theories. The existence of a few rare species, such as Cannabis ruderalis, has been suggested but much about them remains unknown.

http://www.leafscience.com/2014/06/19/indica-vs-sativa-understanding-differences/

----

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I've attached a recently published paper that may be of interest regarding the Cannabis sativa vs indica debate...I thought this was interesting as it touches on the terpenoids in cannabis which apparently are psychoactive in their own right, and are often overlooked with most attention focused on THC, CBD and the other cannabinoids.

I have heard that these terpenoids are destroyed when smoking but not when vaporising, and I have definitely noticed quite a significant difference in effect when smoking and vaping cannabis alone...I reliably find vaping can take me deeper in a visionary sense, but I remain clearer, more upbeat and find it easier to move around, converse and do things even in advanced stages of intoxication. Vaping has definitely made a really positive contribution to my experience of cannabis.

Most psychoactives are alkaloids (a core of carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen, can be rendered as a salt, and in most cases are basic rather than acidic, though the prerequisites for alkaloid qualification are murky and debated), however in the case of cannabis sativa/indica the active components are terpenoids...

...this is also the case with salvia divinorum' s active compounds which are terpenoid (diterpenoid)(trans-neoclerodane diterpenoids) as well

(THC and salvinorin-a actually share the shame three ring core, and are fairly similar in structure to one another, however cannabinoids are cannabinoid receptor agonists, while salvinorin compounds work mainly on the kappa opioid receptor, and were the first non-alkaloid compounds to be known to be agonists of this receptor site...)

Ok, back to cannabis,

I'm quite interested in these other terpene compounds found in cannabis.

THC,CBD,CBN,etc.. are all odorless...this means the smell and taste must be related to these other terpenoid compounds or other aromatic compounds present in the plant...

...and though this may sound I'll-thought, I think the smell and taste effect the subjective experience of the plant...and provided the terpenes responsible for taste and smell did turn out to be active in some way, or even acting as potentiating agents, this would lend some support to my observation.


-eg

Speaking of terpenes, terpenoids, cannabinoids, and the chemistry of compounds found in the cannabis plant, I found several images relating to this topic

-eg

 

[Intezam]

I've attached a recently published paper that may be of interest regarding the Cannabis sativa vs indica debate...I thought this was interesting as it touches on the terpenoids in cannabis which apparently are psychoactive in their own right, and are often overlooked with most attention focused on THC, CBD and the other cannabinoids.

I have heard that these terpenoids are destroyed when smoking but not when vaporising, and I have definitely noticed quite a significant difference in effect when smoking and vaping cannabis alone...I reliably find vaping can take me deeper in a visionary sense, but I remain clearer, more upbeat and find it easier to move around, converse and do things even in advanced stages of intoxication. Vaping has definitely made a really positive contribution to my experience of cannabis.

The Mango-cannabis-terpene connection
[YOUTUBE]

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I have found on occasion that the phenylpropenes (myristicin, estragole and friends) combine most favourably with cannabis (amongst other things), although of course this effect equally could be due to the terpenoids (sabinene, pinene et al.) which inevitably accompany them in their plant sources.

 

[endlessness]

Is there any evidence that such non-cannabinoid substances have psychoactive effects at the doses found in a joint/bowl ?

*am skeptical, as usual

 

[arcologist]

Is there any evidence that such non-cannabinoid substances have psychoactive effects at the doses found in a joint/bowl ?

*am skeptical, as usual

Not sure about all of the terpenes and what you'd consider "psychoactive". E.g. myrcene by itself is not psychoactive at all, maybe mildly sedative, but when combined with THC it dramatically increases the impact/longevity of the THC high by increasing permeability of the blood/brain barrier to cannabinoids. I can always tell a myrcene heavy strain because I'm still high/groggy the next morning 9 hours later. Inhaling just pinene or limonene will be mildly "uplifting", combined with THC they tend to make the high more alert/sparkly, and reduce some of the drowsy couchlock effect of myrcene if it's also present. Inhaling linalool tends to relieve anxiety instantly (good for calming nerves before DMT).

I have roughly 15 different isolated cannabis terpenes that I have tried alone/combined with cannabis (<1 drop per bowl). Once you try them individually you get a feel for their different effects. There's probably about 100 total, so it would be a gargantuan task to evaluate all the different combinations and their effects. I'm of the opinion that most of the differences in effects between cannabis varieties is due to the presence/absence of different terpenes, not the cannabinoids (sativa and indica are misconceptions according to the work by Rob Clarke and Mark Merlin). Almost all common drug varieties are 15-25% THC with 0-0.1% CBD, and small amounts of non-psychoactive CBN/CBG/CBC/THCV. The terpenes also vary significantly from plant to plant - I harvested two OG Kush plants from seed and one has tons of myrcene and will put you to sleep. The other seems linalool/limonene dominant and is more neutral in effects.

Another important variable is the method of consumption - An electronic vaporizer with digital temperature control is important if you want to truly get the complete contents/flavor of your cannabis. I didn't really notice much difference between strains until I got a vaporizer. Smoking weed at temperatures over 200C destroys most of the terpenes, and this explain the difference in effects compared to vaporizing. For example - I can smoke that same myrcene-heavy OG Kush without couchlock because most of the myrcene gets destroyed. I wake up the next day with a clean slate, rather than feeling groggy.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

In the first picture it demonstrates cannabinoids and their known effects


the second picture demonstrates other compounds found in cannabis, it gives quantification as well as pharmocological effect, though again, as endlessness mentioned, perhaps they are not present in large enough quantity to have any real effect, and as arcologist mentioned, they may be destroyed during consumption.

arcologist, if you have tested any of these compounds in the chart below individually, would you say the action described was consistent with your experience?

-eg