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Saw a sleeping aid that was Tryptophan...
- Thread starter Noetic
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you'd need to decarboxylate it before attempting to methylate it.
tricky, and more trouble than what it's worth. exceeds the scope/means of most kitchen chemists
root bark is the way to go
tricky, and more trouble than what it's worth. exceeds the scope/means of most kitchen chemists
root bark is the way to go
pretty sure the alkaloidal content is present in much lower concentrations in trunk bark and leaves.
seems reasonable to deduce that the enzymes responsible for producing the magic are primarily found in the roots.
how do trees fare after stripping their root bark? :?
it would seem they'd be more susceptible to insect damage, but then again, it is commonly thought that the alkaloids are what defend the plant from the insects. stripping the bark exposes these alkaloids, not that man is doing the trees a favor
seems reasonable to deduce that the enzymes responsible for producing the magic are primarily found in the roots.
how do trees fare after stripping their root bark? :?
it would seem they'd be more susceptible to insect damage, but then again, it is commonly thought that the alkaloids are what defend the plant from the insects. stripping the bark exposes these alkaloids, not that man is doing the trees a favor
The root bark grows back in a similar manner/way in which one's epidermis grows back when stripped. It is mostly dead tissue. Even though in theory the stripping of the rootbark may expose the plant's roots to pathogens, it is safely assumed that most of the beloved Mimosae are managing fine with this procedure.
I also believe (that is, without evidence whatsoever) that most of the root bark harvesting is performed in a sustainable way, basically exposing the roots and stripping them (as opposed to just cutting them off and stripping the bark, which can potentially kill the plant).
I also believe (that is, without evidence whatsoever) that most of the root bark harvesting is performed in a sustainable way, basically exposing the roots and stripping them (as opposed to just cutting them off and stripping the bark, which can potentially kill the plant).
Yeah i would hope that its mostly excess bark layers which would probably have less DMT in it, but safer for teh trees. Then again they might just be helping teh trees as alot of malevolent bugs tend to live in the looser parts of bark and might actually help teh tree and become a catalyst for teh tree to exfoliate teh old bug infested bark to promote growth of new bark, tighter to teh tree with less chance of bugs being able to get in there.
I fully understand that teher may be many insects that are there to help the tree as well as a natural pesticide such as insects that eat the destructive insects, but who knows. The places they come from might be out for profit and there may be so many of tehse trees that the natives with no respect for teh trees other than the potential for profit might be over harvesting. We would nevr kow without going to see for ourselves and having a botanist with us so it would seem a dialogue with no real hope for a defiitive answer. Just my uninformed opinion :'?
Does anyone know what the sap of te tree looks like and what it would do to teh treee if one were to tap it like a maple for syrup. I would assume it has mch higher DMT concentration but with a good tek for bark it would seem that it wouldnt be worth hurting the tree just to make the extraction process simpler.
I was watching "the Fountain" and it was interesting that they made the sap of teh tree of life white and milky like semen.. Good symbology. Great film and with teh right eyes very enlightening. Unfortunately most people dont have a clue what teh movie was really about or see only teh most basic layer of it but everytime I think of Root Bark I think of the scene where Hugh Jackman in teh future cuts the last peice from eth bark and eats it taking into himself the essence much like communion. And no I hate teh catholic church so don't get teh wrong idea. Communion IMO has been around since wy before Jesus and I believe teh first communions were with natrure and plants , not the "body of christ"..but teh body of god in the form of nature. But I also believe we became sentient from Psylocibin as in africa 100k years ago it was damp and perfect for teh growth of mushrooms 10xs more potent than todays shrooms. And tehy most definitely would have eaten them. Anyways, enough tangents..;lol
I fully understand that teher may be many insects that are there to help the tree as well as a natural pesticide such as insects that eat the destructive insects, but who knows. The places they come from might be out for profit and there may be so many of tehse trees that the natives with no respect for teh trees other than the potential for profit might be over harvesting. We would nevr kow without going to see for ourselves and having a botanist with us so it would seem a dialogue with no real hope for a defiitive answer. Just my uninformed opinion :'?
Does anyone know what the sap of te tree looks like and what it would do to teh treee if one were to tap it like a maple for syrup. I would assume it has mch higher DMT concentration but with a good tek for bark it would seem that it wouldnt be worth hurting the tree just to make the extraction process simpler.
I was watching "the Fountain" and it was interesting that they made the sap of teh tree of life white and milky like semen.. Good symbology. Great film and with teh right eyes very enlightening. Unfortunately most people dont have a clue what teh movie was really about or see only teh most basic layer of it but everytime I think of Root Bark I think of the scene where Hugh Jackman in teh future cuts the last peice from eth bark and eats it taking into himself the essence much like communion. And no I hate teh catholic church so don't get teh wrong idea. Communion IMO has been around since wy before Jesus and I believe teh first communions were with natrure and plants , not the "body of christ"..but teh body of god in the form of nature. But I also believe we became sentient from Psylocibin as in africa 100k years ago it was damp and perfect for teh growth of mushrooms 10xs more potent than todays shrooms. And tehy most definitely would have eaten them. Anyways, enough tangents..;lol
Rabbit
Hopping through time and space
Actually it is possible to do, but it's not as easy as say baking a cake.
First, one has to decarboxylate it. This is done thermally, in a high boiling point (>200C) non-polar (so tryptophan doesn't solvate in it) liquid. The tryptophan/liquid mix is heated until CO2 starts forming, and the powder begins turning from white to orangish brown. Before it does to a large extent, begin filtering it. This, tryptamine, is filtered and collected. It's a lot easier than people claim to decarboxylate tryptophan - a high boiling point ketone (such as suggested w/ spearmint oil) catalyst may be used but is not absolutely necessary if one can find the right nonpolar liquid
.
To methylate it one needs to use a methylating agent such as Methyl iodide, or dimethyl sulfate, but also a reducing agent like NaBH4 or LAH is required to reduce it from the quaternary salt to the tertiary amine. If one has those reductants it is easy - otherwise this step can be a very challenging one.
Remember methylating agents are often carcinogenic, and chemistry can be dangerous so it's not something one would want to try unless they knew what they were doing.
more can be found at those links.
Now if only someone could find a way to do the alkylation without the need for hydrides...hmm...
First, one has to decarboxylate it. This is done thermally, in a high boiling point (>200C) non-polar (so tryptophan doesn't solvate in it) liquid. The tryptophan/liquid mix is heated until CO2 starts forming, and the powder begins turning from white to orangish brown. Before it does to a large extent, begin filtering it. This, tryptamine, is filtered and collected. It's a lot easier than people claim to decarboxylate tryptophan - a high boiling point ketone (such as suggested w/ spearmint oil) catalyst may be used but is not absolutely necessary if one can find the right nonpolar liquid
.To methylate it one needs to use a methylating agent such as Methyl iodide, or dimethyl sulfate, but also a reducing agent like NaBH4 or LAH is required to reduce it from the quaternary salt to the tertiary amine. If one has those reductants it is easy - otherwise this step can be a very challenging one.
Remember methylating agents are often carcinogenic, and chemistry can be dangerous so it's not something one would want to try unless they knew what they were doing.
Erowid Online Books : "TIHKAL" - #6 DMT
Entry #6 DMT from TiHKAL by Alexander & Ann Shulgin.
www.erowid.org
Now if only someone could find a way to do the alkylation without the need for hydrides...hmm...
I would advise against giving information or details on dmt synthesis since
1) non-technical people may get the idea that it is easy and straightforward to do
2) they are very likely to overlook many of the risks associated when performing such procedures.
3) Average kitchen chemists are very likely to end up with goofy (in the best case scenario) or with contaminated products (in the worst case scenario) which can be from uninteresting to pretty dangerous. Letting the plants to do it is a far more preferred and straightforward strategy
Anyone can google and find some pretty much detailed protocols for the procedure, but there is always the fear of some of them thinking themselves clever enough to actually try it. Refluxing for instance is something NOT to be performed in the kitchen, I'm serious here.
And as far as sodium borohydride is concerned, apart from being fairly hazardous it will immediately attract police attention towards any non-licensed person whishing to purchase it.
This is not a chemistry forum but a public one; discussion of any hazardous procedures is a dangerous tactic and should be discouraged.
1) non-technical people may get the idea that it is easy and straightforward to do
2) they are very likely to overlook many of the risks associated when performing such procedures.
3) Average kitchen chemists are very likely to end up with goofy (in the best case scenario) or with contaminated products (in the worst case scenario) which can be from uninteresting to pretty dangerous. Letting the plants to do it is a far more preferred and straightforward strategy
Anyone can google and find some pretty much detailed protocols for the procedure, but there is always the fear of some of them thinking themselves clever enough to actually try it. Refluxing for instance is something NOT to be performed in the kitchen, I'm serious here.
And as far as sodium borohydride is concerned, apart from being fairly hazardous it will immediately attract police attention towards any non-licensed person whishing to purchase it.
This is not a chemistry forum but a public one; discussion of any hazardous procedures is a dangerous tactic and should be discouraged.
sodium borohydride isn't particularly dangerous, however, Lithium aluminum hydride is
(not to mention overkill). the methylation step is also selective, sodium cyanoborohydride is probably more favorable as a reducing agent
decarboxylation of tryptophan isn't exactly straightforward either, as formation of beta-carbolines (the pictet-spengler cyclization) have been characterized, in considerable yield. some guy's macac tried decarboxylating 80g tryptophan in 200ml cyclohexanol and 5g cyclohexanone, and his final product was reddish brown goo(mostly triptoline by-products)
ideally, the tryptophan in the solvent supposed to change from off-white opaque plates to clear.
either way, as i've said, it exceeds the means of most would-be kitchen chemists, and i'd strongly advice against attempting such a synthesis if one is not familiar with the techniques and reagents involved
(not to mention overkill). the methylation step is also selective, sodium cyanoborohydride is probably more favorable as a reducing agent
decarboxylation of tryptophan isn't exactly straightforward either, as formation of beta-carbolines (the pictet-spengler cyclization) have been characterized, in considerable yield. some guy's macac tried decarboxylating 80g tryptophan in 200ml cyclohexanol and 5g cyclohexanone, and his final product was reddish brown goo(mostly triptoline by-products)
ideally, the tryptophan in the solvent supposed to change from off-white opaque plates to clear.
either way, as i've said, it exceeds the means of most would-be kitchen chemists, and i'd strongly advice against attempting such a synthesis if one is not familiar with the techniques and reagents involved
Observant
Nothing Stops The Void
I hope this wasn't discussed earlier:benzyme said:
SWIM once thought about synthesizing Tryptamine from Tryptophan - Is this a hard /dangerous thing to do?
I dont want to go any further , wanna do some Experiments on Tryptamine Enhanced Psilocybe Cubensis.
Some sources say you can raise the Psilocin Content by feeding Tryptamine .
Pure Tryptophan wouldnt be a Problem - what else would i need ? Carvon?
Thx (;
associativum said:
Yes, hard, dangerous and ambiguous (see benzyme's post) and should be avoided if there are other alternatives. For instance, if one wants to increase the psilocin content of mushrooms he's normally advised to:
1) either eat more in case one desires a stronger trip
2) or work with a stronger strain
3) or buy tryptamine directly from the suppliers (not advised since it may raise suspicions)
Don't these make life much more easy?:surprised
associativum said:
it has been, and the thread was promptly (and rightly) removed to protect the integrity of this site. boards have gone by the wayside before for openly discussing syntheses. Infundibulum is correct...tryptamine is indeed a watched precursor (class A..most watched precursors, internationally). although tryptophan is under the radar, the transformation to tryptamine isn't practical for the casual kitchen chemist. it requires considerable thought and money (for reagents), not to mention standard lab equipment. rigging won't cut it. it can be done, but it requires pure effort, no short-cuts.
there is still info out there that discusses these things in detail, but don't expect anyone here to post specific advice on how to do it. one would just need to search the internet thoroughly; nothing personal, it's about responsibility.
and doping substrate for mushrooms, via tryptamine, hasn't been reproducible by any means. only one experiment (Gartz et al.) has ever reported increased yields, this has been discussed in several threads at Shroomery.
Observant
Nothing Stops The Void
Youre Probably Right. I hope this Board will last a long time.
I'm fascinated by funghi - and I'm completely into Experimenting with them.
I also think Tryptamine Rich Substrates are a cool Subject.
I'll post results ,maybe it this will take some time...
I'm fascinated by funghi - and I'm completely into Experimenting with them.
I also think Tryptamine Rich Substrates are a cool Subject.
I'll post results ,maybe it this will take some time...
it will (take some time). trial and error
repeated experimentation, very respectable. don't forget to make sure controls are implemented as well (jars without tryptamine supplementation), to make it truly scientific.
repeated experimentation, very respectable. don't forget to make sure controls are implemented as well (jars without tryptamine supplementation), to make it truly scientific.
Rabbit
Hopping through time and space
benzyme said:
Sorry but this needs addressing...
The pictet-spengler reaction does not happen with the decarboxylation of tryptophan to tryptamine. It happens when tryptamine is reacted with formaldehyde in acidic conditions. Decarboxylating tryptophan does NOT cause a ring formation. It is a relatively simple procedure done on a host of amino acids. Also it is well known that tryptamine is pale-yellow, not clear. That's all easily found online.
It's fine that this is not to be discussed in detail here but please do not spread mis-information. Decarboxylating tryptophan doesn't lead to tryptolines, unless you can supply research that states otherwise.