seeking info on syrian rue and acacia confusa

[jah Meej]

MThat's a confirmed negative on lift off. I feel something though... After my last post I got INTENSE nausea (I also have ibs so I know whats normal n whats from that) was just listening to music in a dark room... I think my eye were closed but I feel like I did or said something, I'm positive I wasn't asleep... I took a little clonopin (which im prescribed I took a half dose) and Im guessing this is not helping. first trip to the bathroom. hope I just have to pee. will spare you the dtails of reporting on that lol. bye for now

 

[DieM]

So how'd it go?

I know where my failure lay- I was over cautious with the timeing to avoid overwhelming nausea that I've read about. I took the Rue over 30 mins then the mhrb over an hour.. i did 3g rue and 10g mhrb, so apparently that was quite a strong does, but nothing really happened because of the time it took to drink. No purge.. now I'm kinda wishing I downed the lot and did purge.. always next time!

 

[jah Meej]

DieM, I posted somewhat of a report on Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:25:42 PM, its right after my post about how I'm going to do it. I did however fail to explain in detail which I'd like to.( I also have limited bandwidth so I couldn't get on for a few days.

I FOR SURE got the beginning feeling of mushroom, kiinnda like acid but I'd say closer to shroom. I was like in a shroom come down state... I closed my eyes for like a whole hour or more and just thought. Lol about life, and truth and some other things seeks from these amazing god given plants.

As for the dosage, I swallowed 2.5g Syrian rue (no prep, no breaking, no boiling, it was my understanding your stomach acid and action can break it down fine), Then, well you can see how long I waited to take the ACRB. Several things could've gone wrong I suppose.

I only boiled for like just under and hour (time constraints and also why I swallowed some raw boiled material, I did use vinegar though), Is my time frame off? like my timing on taking stuff? did I not boil and get enough out of the ACRB? Thanks for helping me discover this journey, I totally dig the whole attitude and vibe here. :thumb_up:
MUCH different than several other forums I've been too.

Anyway, please read my previous post that has time line, amount ingested, etc. and see what I did wrong... I also have SOME Zoloft (sertraline) in my system but I don't even take it every day and when I do I take micro doses... I know ssri's specifically are known to decrease or in some cases eliminate the chance of a trip. Any advice brah? Peace :d

 

[dxmroid]

I think you need to boil both way longer, as none of the alks can come out that fast??

Am i right or am i wrong??

 

[jah Meej]

I will tell you tomorrow when I have the time to boil it several times, then reduce the liquid. Thanks for the advice. If anyone else has any it'd be greatly appreciated

 

[joshisom]

some alks will come out but i do 4 hour long boils to get them all. traditional brewing time is like 6 hours. if time is an issue if u feel ballsy boil 4times as much for only one hour......

 

[DieM]

Bring the Acacia close to the boil. -DO NOT BOIL. Add a small amount of acid or vinegar, lemon juice, and stir occasionally and SIMMER (Steam but no bubbles) for around 2-3 hours. Drain off liquid into another container or pan. Repeat process again, for a total of 2 or 3 washes. Simmer down combined liquid to desired drinking amount. Remove from heat till 'warm', throw in an egg white (only the white) return to heat and stir softly. Pour thru filter into another container, put in fridge and let settle for a few hours. Decant liquid layer, leaving sediment.

Wrap up 3-5g dose (3=small, 5=large) of Syrian Rue seed in tissue, or tobacco/joint paper and swallow.

Wait wait 30-60 minutes, down the Acacia wine. (If you do a large dose, drink the first half, then wait 20-30 mins and finish.

That's the theory :thumb_up:

 

[jah Meej]

Great instruction Diem. Thanks for clarifying with the boil/simmer temperature. This is exactly the kind of this I was looking for.

just a few questions:

1.When I repeat washes, I save the liquid I get into several containers and then reduce the volume of liquid?
2. Will a coffee filter work as a screen? or should I use a shirt?
3. MOST important, can you go into detail about the egg white thing? I heard it takes some of the tannins (the stuff that makes your stomach do a flip aka nausea)

So my main question revolved around this egg white thing. When do you add? how long? are there visual clue? Does it take some dmt with it?


Hey, guys, you're too awesome :lol: and this forum is great. Best forums/drug education site I've ever been on. :thumb_up: x2

 

[DieM]

Most welcome,

1:> You can save the liquid into the same container, you will need to transfer all of the liquid you have into the same pan/container in the end anyway to simmer up again to reduce the amount.

2:> It would be a good idea to use the t-shirt first to remove the larger parts, then if you want, you can run it through the coffee filter to catch anything left. (There will always be a small amount of sediment left, which is why you then leave it in the fridge for a few hours for the sediment to drop to the bottom. -There is nothing wrong with drinking the sediment left, but be aware that this will be small particles of the egg white, which has absorbed the tannins of plant material. The more of the sediment you drink, the more potentially nauseating the drink will be.

3:> you need to being the liquid off the heat, to cool down to a warm temp, ie- like frying an egg, you want to start cooler. Once the egg white is in, return to the heat, and stir gently. It's important to stir gently, otherwise you will pulverise the egg white so much, that you will have too much sediment to filter, and this makes filtering rather difficult -you may have to use multiple filters. If you do it right, you can remove most of the egg white with a spoon before then pouring through a filter. As the egg white solidifies, it catches plant material and sediment, then when you filter, most of the sediment can be discarded with the egg white.

You add the egg white when you have combined all liquid and are simmering down to a desirable portion to drink, when you reach desired portion ie- 50-150ml, then you can use the egg white, stir gently for a few minutes, then leave to settle. You will see different layers (if you are double boiling in a clear container) then filter, then refridgerate.

It does possibly remove a tiny amount of dmt, which may have become 'trapped' within the solidified egg white, plus some that may not have made it out of the plant material yet. But the amount will be insignificant if you have simmered for a long enough time, and it's definitely a worthwhile trade to minimise the nausea IMO.

Quote- "Hey, guys, you're too awesome and this forum is great. Best forums/drug education site I've ever been on. x2"

I agree! 100% :thumb_up:

 

[jah Meej]

DieM I must say, beautiful instructions :d . lol seriously, that was extremely thorough and I feel much more confident.

one LAST question (I think)

When I do the initial boils, how much water do I use? like 2 cups? since its gonna boil like 4 hours otherwise itll boil off all the water. or can you just add water as necessary? because if you do that will the newer h2o not have as much time in contact with plant material?

Is there like a rule of thumb like "x ml of water boils off in an hour" or something? Thanks again! If I get a quick response I may do today... Can I save in the fridge if I don't wanna use it all today? Anyone know how long it keeps?

Ok that was way more than one last question lol sorry. The bolded text are the important questions. Peace :thumb_up:

 

[DieM]

Thanks, appreciation is mutual. It's good to share what I've learned and give back :thumb_up:

Depends on the amount of Bark you start with and the size of the (pans/double boil containers) you use, but the idea is to make sure it is covered for the duration, until reduction.

A normal 500ml pan, with say 20g Bark, 300ml of water will be a good amount to start with. You WILL need to top this up maybe half way through the boil. You could use an indefinite amount of water.. as nothing will be lost except the water. Though it's wise to use a minimal to moderate amount though, otherwise reducing the volume will take forever!

Oh- if you're double boiling, half fill the pan (can be any pan) with water, place a piece of folded paper at the bottom to act as a buffer, otherwise the glass bottom of your jar touching the metal of the pan directly, could crack it (It happened to me).

If you are not double boiling and using the pans directly, make sure they are stainless steal, not aluminium or even teflon coated, because this could get into the mix once acidified, and you definitely don't need aluminium in your Huasca!

There's no rule of thumb, because there's too many variables, like what heat, size of pan, volume of material, volume of water, ambient temperature etc. It's easy to judge though. Just make sure when SIMMERING, the amount of water/solution doesn't get too little, as this will BURN and DESTROY the plant material and spice, and possibly evaporate most of it out! Unless you want to lick the good stuff off the walls and ceiling lol

Yes, you can save it for a good few weeks in the fridge, and indefinitely in the freezer.

Edit: Extra note- It's easy to deionise/filter your tap water. Boil it up, let cool, pour through tight filter, let settle in an open top container for a day or two, this isn't distilled water, but it's as clean as you're gping to get it without distillation :thumb_up:

No worries with the questions, it's best to ask. And it gives me a chance to revise! And a chance for anybody else with any tweaks to jump in :thumb_up:

 

[jah Meej]

Thanks

I'll just pick up a gallon of distilled at the nearby market, and I have a great kitchen thermometer rated up to like 800F. (I'm kind of a science guy so I like to control all variables possible :d )

I see now about the amount of water and topping off, not sure what I was thinking lol (dmt doesn't evap, derp lol)

Cool about the freezer also! great tip.

If I double boil, ill do it with a stainless bowl, but I haven't decided if I wanna limit my temp to 212 since I have this fantastic new thermometer I bought lol. BUT I do have electric stove so I'm a little afraid it can be quite tricky if I DONT double boil (due to electric heat)

Good point on the selection of pan.

You're prolly not sure what temp the ideal simmer is at, but I think qualitatively I know what type of simmer you mean, so I'll be sure to note that temp for the future.

Luckily I can use larger amounts of water with higher heat, as I can monitor actual temp, although this is where having slow, unpredictable electric heat comes in... Any suggestions welcome on that.

Well looks like I've got some errands to run today now anyway but at least I'll have a chance to pick up some distilled water.


Also I threw, I dunno a couple cap fulls of vinegar in, cuz I knew it needed acidity and wasn't too sure what was in that .1 ph pool stuff so I just did vinegar. Is a couple cap fulls good? or is there a recommended amount or ratio?

Once again, thanks
Peace 8)


I'm also still getting Zoloft out of my system, thought I was clear but starting getting Discontinuation Syndrome today so took 25 mg... I took 2.5g rue with 50mg Zoloft and was fine... I know the more rue you use the less conufsa I'll need, but does it affect the trip in other ways? Anyone have experience with anti-depressants, specifically ssri's and Syrian rue? (not the same as others like B. Caapi). Thanks!

 

[OpeningPandorasBox]

From personal experience let me save you a lot of trouble.

Find a senior member who posts a detailed description of their method and follow it to a T. The only place you will want to deviate is on dosage as you want to start slow. If you search enough you will find someone who is having consistent luck and shares their method. Use the same supplies in the same quantities so that you emulate everything and then slowly up the dose as needed. Asking questions and getting replies is great but it will never be as helpful as following one person with true experience. The members here are known for being extremely methodical so you will find everything you need to know. This requires more reading and research but it has the added benefit of being effective and you learning a lot along the way. Just my 2 cents.


Also please be careful taking MAOI with these medicines you keep mentioning. Ideally you want to have nothing in your system - not even food. MAOIs are not a joke and just eating the wrong thing can be potentially dangerous not to mention adding prescription medication. As for food you can look up foods which are problematic and ones that are safe as a post dose snack can sometimes be helpful.

Good Luck and welcome to The Nexus
OPB

*EDIT*

Did some quick searching just to give you some examples/places to start

The Acacia Confusa thread - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18291069/A-Guide-to-Brewing-Asian-Ayahuasca-

Formosahuasca - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Acacia confusa & Formosahuasca - DMT Experiences - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[jah Meej]

Thanks PandorasBox, I kinda know what you mean, I had a similar experience cultivating our fungi friends of the cubnesis variety and.... Theres a lot to it. Kinda like this.

I actually found a couple of those in my intial search, there was a new recipe I haven't seen tho (I don't think I"ll do anything to the seeds) also 15g a person sounds like an awful lot with 3g rue or whatever they were using.

And yes I realize what serotonin toxicity or "serotonin syndrome' is caused by and how it works. Harmine and harmaline (the maoi's in Syrian rue) first are selective maoi's, which they are selective to the OTHER one than the maoi recepter that causes hypertensive crisis. It's also called a reversible maoi, unlike pharmaceutical maoi's, so it's much more forgiving with tyramine so you have a slightly expanded diet and shortened fast/diet time if I remember correctly. And also I took very very low doses of both. I do plan to to be nearly 0 in my system of sertraline, and I'm only gonna do 3-4g rue most likely.

DieM gave some Outstanding instructions INCLUDING the egg white ( I wanted to do that so bad but didn't wanna mess it up. they were very specific) so I'm excited about that. I am confident I can make formohuasca, I just need to mess with getting the doses of both correct.

I was gonna do today, I thnk I have maybe 20g left (might just have to get more I have 114g rue lol) but I'm beat so it may be today, maybe tomorrow then I'll let you guys know how it goes and if/what I ran into! Thanks for joining the thread PandorasBox! and thanks to all who have contributed so far:thumb_up:

 

[jah Meej]

Diem, I have a crock pot keepin it about 155-160 on high, do u think that's enough heat?

Also why do multiple boils, why not just continue one long boil, continuing to add water so the alkaloids have a chance to come out? or are they both options??? I might try the crock pot for like 8 hours(or more?), then do a 3 hour boil n check out that product and compare to crock pot stuff, see if it seems like I got any extra out.

8)

Thanks guys

 

[jah Meej]

Ok first batch, used approx. 700ml water with 42g bark, boiled for a while (1 1/2 hrs?) then in a covered crock pot got it up to around 185 for about 4-5 more hours.

I then strained it, recollected the ground bark material (as much as I could) then repeated the process, but this time, I put in covered crock pot on high overnight (around 8 hours) so it's been at 185 for 8 hrs.

I might do one more rinse and do a straight boil and see how it compares to what I already made.

Today is the day so I'll be Updating this post live as I do thing, PLEASE feel free to chime in any time! (I'll mainly b following diems instructions)

 

[jah Meej]

Ok first batch, used approx. 700ml water with 42g bark, boiled for a while (1 1/2 hrs?) then in a covered crock pot got it up to around 185 for about 4-5 more hours.

I then strained it, recollected the ground bark material (as much as I could) then repeated the process, but this time, I put in covered crock pot on high overnight (around 8 hours) so it's been at 185 for 8 hrs.

I might do one more rinse and do a straight boil and see how it compares to what I already made.

Today is the day so I'll be Updating this post live as I do thing, PLEASE feel free to chime in any time! (I'll mainly b following diems instructions, also cuz it includes the eggwhite. One of the people I'm doing this for will much appreciate the reduced nausea anad I know my ibs will.)

 

[jah Meej]

Ok first batch, used approx. 700ml water with 42g bark, boiled for a while (1 1/2 hrs?) then in a covered crock pot got it up to around 185 for about 4-5 more hours.
I then strained it, recollected the ground bark material (as much as I could) then repeated the process, but this time, I put in covered crock pot on high overnight (around 8 hours) so it's been at 185 for 8 hrs.


I might do one more rinse and do a straight boil and see how it compares to what I already made.

Today is the day so I'll be Updating this post live as I do thing, PLEASE feel free to chime in any time! (I'll mainly b following diems instructions, also cuz it includes the eggwhite. One of the people I'm doing this for will much appreciate the reduced nausea anad I know my ibs will.)

1300 CST Going to kitchen t strain mixture (when its done coolin in a min) and strain and get a boil going. I'm mainly looking for weakly colored water (if im not getting more tannins out I doubt im getting more dmt) or a quality difference in smell/taste (watered down smell/taste.

-First pot

-Second pot

Anyway the first one I did I cant even see to the bottom of it's so dark, the second looks like an amberish color, maybe some type of lager or darker beer (but still very red and verrry see through. Third boil may not last very long because It's just adding more water. If it didn't come out in 12 hour at 185 degrees its not comin out. I think from now on im crockpottin it. Mine anyways, on high, covered is a steady 185. I woke n check n say a half inch of "bark" built up dried material where the water had gone down just a smidge from the steal not being air tight so I was sure to scrape that off. I'd love to post pics but anyway I think you get the idea. I may have to develop my own crockpot tek lol



Upon closer inspection the first pot just has a lot more um stuff? in it. It's some kinda weird, wavey (when I tilt the pot ever so lightly they sway back n forth like sea anemone) type thing. I don't know if I'm gonna take it out or not, I filtered though a shirt, I avoid coffe filters like the plague whenever possible 1 because each filter is diff, they don't make them to a high enough stand to say oh this is a .2 micron coffe filter. (unless you buy a SUPER expensive one maybe) AND it just takes forever, waiting for the liquid to enter your cup 1 drop at a time. It' just turned into a mess. When making Kratom tea I don't even use coffee filters anymore, I just use a shirt. Anyway, anyone w experience please chime in!
Do I have sea anemone in my pot? lol

 

[DieM]

The temperatures are fine as long as you have reduced the ph below spice's pka, Spice below it's pka is in it's salt form with a much higher melting point, above pka (I think 8.6?) it is in freebase form. Anything below a bubble boil is just fine for salted spice.

You could use one long boil instead of multiple washes, but multiple washes will have a higher yield. As some of the spice will inevitably still be stuck within/around the plant material which will be throw away. The idea here is to water down the material and isolate as much as possible. Though, the difference will likely be small, so it comes down to personal preference. The actual boils don't NEED to be so long, 9 hours in total is designed to work with neutral solutions. Adding the acid and heat allows you to speed this up. The shortest route I would suggest would be 3x1hr acid boils. -Keeping the ph around 4. Any less than this and the taste becomes ghastly.

Where are you at with this theatrical experiment now?

 

[jah Meej]

Keep in mind I'm dealing w confusa, saw you say spice, I thought that was "jurema" or MHRB. Anyway principles are all the same, not a big deal, just didn't know if they call any ayahuasca type brew spice..

Anyway you can see from my pics, I got most of the tannins out (the bark is a very very pale beige color now instead of its intense reddish brown it used to be). And the egg trick worked beautifully.
One comment on that, temp to fry an egg technically is exactly 158 degrees. I was around 165 when I use my egg and imo it coagulated WAY to quickly. In the future I would flirt w that 158 coagulation point of eggs to allow more contact w tannins. (I was able squish up some of the bigger piece of egg, revealing fresh white and taking on color aka tannins which is good.
Also I would opt for 1 over night on high in the crock pot covered (itll get 190 Deg in there almost) then a 2-3 hour boil after that, but that's just my personal preference.
It's in the freezer atm.

The other person who funded some of the material got their 20g worth of confusa and I have about 22g left and was supposed to get my buddy over here the last two days to try it with me but looks like I'm flying solo today. I'll be home alone with my dog brady today, so as long as I start small I should be ok.

I've tripped alone on acid several times as well as shrooms so it can be an adventure in itself (while I recommend using a spotter whenever possible especially when trying a new psychedelic), but I have some parachutes aka benzodiazepines in case I start having a "bad trip" which has NEVER happened to me on ANYTHING but doesn't mean it can't. Just hope klonopin works as well for dmt as it does for lsd.

Anyway I have ibs so that's a slight concern, hopefully it doesn't get too bad, taking out a lot of the tannins did a TON I'm sure, but I'm considering eating a light meal.. although it may consist of rue seeds hehehe.... BTW anyway have experience w Kratom and dmt? I'm a daily Kratom user and it's gonna be hard to skip my daily Kratom AND klonopin but I will if I'm risking something..
I heard with Syrian Rue its an rMAOI (reversible maoi) and it's also selective, so there should b no diet restrictions, but same med restrictions I don't know where Kratom falls since it's closes to coffee yet it activates opiate receptors without being one... Maybe I'll be safe n skip it.. Probably gonna take the rue soon here