Seperation of gramine in phalaris grass. NEED TIPS

[6marre9 M.M]

I have the possibility of doing a big school project(gymnasiearbete) about the gramine% in phalaris grass and i need help to come up with a method to isolate the gramine from phalaris grass(i havent chosen the specific species yet). i know how to extract the alkoloids but i still need to seperate the gramine from the other alkoloids(DMT, 5-MeO.DMT, bufotenin, tryptamine and b-carboline). I dont realy need to seperate it, i just need to messure the amount. But i dont have access to a HPLC so i probably have to isolate it.

Method:
I will probably need to change the pH-level multiples times and use organic solvents(naphta, cloroform or DCM) to seperate the different alkoloids. I wonder if its a reliable method considering that DMT, and the other alokoids, are so structurally simmilar to gramine.
I have access to a bit more than basic highschool lab equipment. but thats about it.
It would help me immensely if you could give me any tips on this.

 

[Transform]

Interesting project. Have you thought of trying TLC or preparative paper chromatography?

Especially with the latter, you can simply cut out the relevant band and gather the analyte fraction using fresh solvent.

Be sure to check out this section, too:

Plant Analysis and Substance Testing

Post your analysis results

forum.dmt-nexus.me

as well as seeking out some of the main phalaris threads!

 

[6marre9 M.M]

Thank you so much. i was recomended preparative paper chromatography by chatGPTbut did´nt know how effective it was. It seems like viable method and it will probably workout but i have to do some more research about it. Also i will be growing the phalaris grass in vitro, are there any conditions i need to take in to account so the gramine content isnt disturbed?

Fun Fact: At first i did ask the head professor if i could do a paper about the DMT concentration in Phalaris but he said no(for obvious reasons, its very illegal in sweden) so i changed it to gramine insted and he approved. i still dont think he knows that i will be working with DMT tho. I have actually tried extracting DMT from phalaris before but i put my final product in the living room to evaporate and my brother thought it was a dirty dish and put it in the dishwasher.

 

[Transform]

Yes, you do need a dedicated working space that's unlikely to be disturbed by third parties…

Phalaris alkaloid content will be a law unto itself unless you're working with certain named strains. Check out the work of @Grasshoppers and @neurobloom to get a picture of the state of phalaris research here.

You can do paper chromatography using literal old junk, at least if you find the right bits, like in this post. Do it right and you'd only have to spend the price of a beer (I know, Sweden ) on the artists' paper.


It would be great if you could share your results both in our phalaris threads and the chromatography one. Are you thinking of using TLC to fine-tune the process at a smaller scale, btw?

 

[northape]

@6marre9 M.M, Welcome, fellow seeker from the North.
I pray for your success! May the Gods give you strength!

 

[6marre9 M.M]

Yes, you do need a dedicated working space that's unlikely to be disturbed by third parties…

Phalaris alkaloid content will be a law unto itself unless you're working with certain named strains. Check out the work of @Grasshoppers and @neurobloom to get a picture of the state of phalaris research here.

You can do paper chromatography using literal old junk, at least if you find the right bits, like in this post. Do it right and you'd only have to spend the price of a beer (I know, Sweden ) on the artists' paper.


It would be great if you could share your results both in our phalaris threads and the chromatography one. Are you thinking of using TLC to fine-tune the process at a smaller scale, btw?

i will ocf share the paper in the end but ihave to find a viable method to messure the gramine content, not just if its present. i will do some more reserch but i dont know if preperative Paper chromotography or TLC will be accurate enough.

 

[Transform]

i will ocf share the paper in the end but ihave to find a viable method to messure the gramine content, not just if its present. i will do some more reserch but i dont know if preperative Paper chromotography or TLC will be accurate enough.

Paper chromatography has been used to estimate yields by cutting out the appropriate spots or bands and weighing them on a microbalance. You can also extract the substance back out of the paper this way, and have an isolated sample for yield estimation. If you know how much mixture went in at the start, you can convert to percentages or whatever.

Or wait until you have access to some proper instrumentation - you can still fill in that time with "hobby level" experiments, since I'm sure Berzelius didn't hang around waiting for someone to invent an ICP spectrometer.