Sickness free Ayahuasca

[Sabnock1990]

Well if you extracted from root or leaf, i'd imagine you'd need to convert it back into it's salt form for oral ingestion, i'm sure it'd work though as long as you time the consumption properly when gut MAO-A is inhibited.

As for Moclobemide, i'm surprised more people around here seemingly haven't experimented with Moclobemide, kinda hard to believe tbh. I actually kinda liked Mimosa with Moclobemide, Acacia too, but i do prefer the Harmalas but the Moclobemide experiences are definitely no doubt interesting too. Definitely worth a try imo, though it can be rather intense body sensation wise because the Harmala aspects aren't there and the Harmalas seem to ground the experience in a way but with Moclobemide you feel it's full force. Moclobemide is also cool for seeing what Mimosa or Acacia, or other DMT-containing plants are like on their own, because they're not altered by the Harmalas.

And yes, DMT with Moclobemide is purge-free, so if you give it a chance, let us know how it goes for you.

 

[syberdelic]

delete me

 

[AwesomeUsername]

I've never understood this pursuit. I'm curious as to the reasoning, what is to be gained here?

If you want a psychedelic experience without the bodily work of ingesting plant medicines, take LSD.

Adding a bunch of pharmaceuticals to your huasca to combat the most important part of ingesting "la purga" seems kinda nonsensicle to me.

It depends what you are going for.

The purge was believed to be a cleansing process, and one can understand why.

However purely from a scientific view, it has not been proven to be beneficial at all.

On the other hand the benefits of DMT has PROVEN benefits.

Some people prefer to extract it, other to do an authentic traditional rainforest ceremony.

Others (like SWIM) are going for a more mushroom kind of experience.

Availability and price is also an motive.

Mimosa and rue with shipping if bought in bulk costs an single euro per dose.

This is a huge win, if somebody has a hard time obtaining LSD or mushrooms, not to mention that cacti (although very special) is much more expensive as well.

All of us here are interested in the same thing, tripping.

Regardless which way you chose, the destination is always the same.

Classic psychedelics in any form are something special, and all of them deserve to be respected. One does not have less merit then the other.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Vomiting on Ayahuasca is not "getting sick," it's getting well. It's not some pesky side-effect of some toxic aspect of the plants; it's a wonderful process of deep elimination that leads to health benefits.

I'll pass on "sickness free Ayahuasca" ...

 

[nen888]

..it's good you're bringing up the topics AwesomeUsername

The purge was believed to be a cleansing process, and one can understand why.

However purely from a scientific view, it has not been proven to be beneficial at all.

On the other hand the benefits of DMT have PROVEN benefits.

..i don't think the purge, or indeed some other aspects of traditional ayahuasca use have been properly scientifically investigated..some of the few studies have concluded there may indeed be therapeutic benefits..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S027795361930526X

The Ayahuasca purge hasn't been studied on the kind of scientific level that DMT (only in the past decade or so) has...eg sampling blood plasma, gut flora etc before and after purging..it hasn't had enough study to be 'proved' either way..
this kind of reminds me the discussion on indigenous psychedelic wisdom in another thread..

certainly there may be modern ways to create ayahuasca analogues, but some would prefer to stick with plants...purgative medicines are traditional in many parts of the world

but also, to touch on another controversial topic..maybe experimenting with one's diet could help with the more unpleasant aspects of La Purga

 

[Sabnock1990]

I've taken more to just using regular consumption to reduce the chances of nausea/vomiting, as with regular Harmala consumption (especially by themselves at appropriately dosed) one can build tolerance to the purgative effects and other side-effects of the Harmalas which does away with the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea and the bodyload and motor function impairment and some other things, and then on the DMT side it's Adrenergic properties and/or bodyload i do believe can contribute to/cause a purge, but i think the body also can get used the Adrenergic properties of the DMT, and so with both the Harmalas and the DMT there's like no nausea/vomiting, with regular consumption. Of course though other things can contribute, like tannins/plant gunk, the taste/smell/texture of the brew, as well as the bodyload and intensity itself of the DMT can be enough to cause me to vomit sometimes.

With that said, i do see some benefit in vomiting, i'm not going to dismiss it entirely, but i would much prefer the body to process the medicine like usual and so i would only vomit if need be, like if i were to overdose on the DMT side and ended up overwhelmed or something, vomiting would be nice and usually helps to relieve the intensity and worry if i get in over my head, a few minutes after vomiting and i'm usually feeling better, but that's really the only time i've found the vomiting to be useful, personally. There may well be some sort of benefit through the vagus nerve when it comes to vomiting, idk.

Another aspect is that Harmalas have anti-microbial properties and so may cause some nausea/vomiting that way as some other anti-microbials do, which may also kill off certain microbes in the gut which may make us more likely to experience nausea/vomiting and may be one reason why regular Harmala consumption isn't as bad on the gut because the gut's microbiome goes through some changes and perhaps some bad microbes are killed off. There's also gas and bloating which can be experienced which also has to do with the microbiome. Which, diet also can impact the microbiome, something we eat may feed bad microbes, or we may not feed the good microbes as much as we should and so bad microbes might overgrow, but improving one's diet can improve the microbiome and thus may reduce chances of nausea, gas, bloating and possibly vomiting.

Although i'm pretty sure the vomiting is moreso a physical thing rooted in physiological properties, i also think the microbiome aspect could contribute. But overall, regular consumption of this medicine seems to get rid of most side-effects, i know most people probably wouldn't or wouldn't be able to dose this stuff regularly (a few times a week), but it does clean up a lot in the long run and still maintains effectiveness.

 

[AwesomeUsername]

but also, to touch on another controversial topic..maybe experimenting with one's diet could help with the more unpleasant aspects of La Purga

I like your style, studied nutrition actually...

It definitely does play a role, but from experience most people don't feel if they are deficient on something, and unless you take every supplement on the market you are going to be deficient in something.

On the side note, let's assume your diet is clean as it can be and you are taking everything to fill the gaps what diet alone cannot fill.

You would probably not feel any different then the average Joe, but you might live longer.

What can be felt is if your body doesn't get the energy requirements that it needs.

Thus prolonged fasting might make ayahuasca even more exhausting.

Let's not forget, happiness comes from the gut, and if the gut is empty your experience will feel draining and empty.

Don't eat a bunch right before drinking Aya, couple of hours before something light is perfect.

My advice is have a healthy lifestyle, a clean diet and a positive mindset and ayahuasca will treat you well, because you treat yourself well.