Simultaneous parallel universes?

[TimePantry]

I had a very interesting experience the other night, and while it wasn't a formally structured setup to which I could apply a template, I would still like to describe it to you guys and I am interested in others' reactions to the idea.

I have stated more than once on this forum that unfortunately I do not seem to be able to remember any of my breakthrough experiences. This had not prevented me from having all kinds of unusual sensations and alterations of my consciousness. The most frequent thing that happens to me is that my conscious awareness returns to me seemingly the instant I have left wherever it is I go, and what I experience is all manner of reeeeeally novel return trips.

So the other night I decided to take some spice, dissolve it in a little alcohol, mix in some salvia leaves, then dry it. After two or three deep tokes, poof, I was elsewhere and as usual, I recall nothing until I found myself on the familiar weird journey home to my corner of reality. But here's the thing, as I returned incrementally to my own place, I could feel potential selves peeling off as I went. It was as if every node where a choice in my life would cause reality to branch into alternate realities, created other mes that were somehow each and all part of the big me on the other side. To return to my specific reality it felt like I was dropping off the other mes one at a time.

So here is the idea: what if our true selves, on the other side when we finish our lives, are made up of ALL the branches, all the potentially different ways our lives could have gone? What if we choose a life to live, and then live out every permutation of that life simultaneously in multiple parallel universes? It really felt like that's where I had gone, to a place where I was all of the different people I can have been, all at once.

(side note: I'll bet physicists and cosmologists who do entheogens are REALLY fun to talk to.)

 

[nen888]

that sounds like Everett's 'branching tree' theory of reality..no one has ever faulted it logically..it was his graduation thesis, then he was snapped up by the military to work in the 'Theoretical Weapons Division'..no joke..he apparently always looked worried and chain smoked himself to an early death..perhaps entheogens would have helped (hmm)...but brilliant physicists or engineers on entheogens can do your head in, lovely as they are - just feel it and listen please!.. enjoyed your report TimePantry thanks

 

[○]

I"ve felt many times that at every possible juncture of everyday life, whether it's a step I take, a word I speak, or whatever, each successive action leads into an endless branching of possibilities. When I stop to play that out in my head, it can get almost instantly overwhelming, unfathomable.

I remember one of my strongest smoked experiences, some years back I was (quite literally) living an endless amount of lives, literally every conceiveable moment during the experience I was careening through the infinitely-leveled substratum of Hypersapce, popping through into endless life variations - a woman waving to her child as he got on the bus, a person out by a lake, people having a party out on a patio of some kind, etc. The flash was so strong; nothing but endless continuums materializing; I was all these continuums, I was all these experiences, all these moments of experience. I was endlessly pounded with the realization that I was all these people, places and experiences being had, with Hyperspace weaving it all together.

 

[nen888]

^ enjoyed that one too ...psychedelic thread

 

[Psilosopher?]

I fully resonate with the posts here. I've also had experiences where I witnessed all my incarnations, i.e. every living thing on Earth. The realisation that we are all one being hits you pretty damn hard.

This is a little something I wrote while coming down from a DMT trip.

"Love = Gravity = God.

God is oneness. Gravity is the force that attracts mass to a singular focal point. This is the physical embodiment of the oneness. All celestial objects are gods. They are the sources of energy in this dark void.

Energy is life. Life is energy. Energy is matter. Matter is energy. We are matter. We are life. And we are gravity. Every being is its own celestial object and has its own gravity, metaphorically speaking."

 

[DmnStr8]

I can relate to what you experienced Timepantry.

I think we are all possibility making a choice. This is just what feels true to me. I don't think about it too much, as Tattvamasi stated, it can become instantly overwhelming and unfathomable.

If we have made the choice to be here and have this experience together then I feel we are playing out the exactly what we need to enable to evolve our collective consciousness. We all chose, together. That makes me feel good. That thought make me feel connected. To everything and everyone.

As far as I am concerned you are experiencing the same thing in the same way. I cannot get into your head but your descriptions are very similar to what I feel.

 

[Intezam]

..in the original (original sounds so fake) (yo)universe yours truly died of a stroalk (same apartment) ....

 

[○]

..in the original (original sounds so fake) (yo)universe yours truly died of a stroalk (same apartment) ....

I never had seen that story. Not trying to divert this thread with my post of notmuchsubstance but just wanted to say that your stories I love and your style of story telling never gets old.

 

[Legarto Rey]

Wow, isn't this the real deal? Entheogens grant us access to the quirky, twitchy realm of reality unfolding. In our typical tightly bound consciousness reference frame we experience "a" particular unfolding. When we are (blessedly) catalyzed by the teachers, the manifold potentialities reveal themselves. The queerness of it can be frightfully intense. With a bit of "experience" the edges are softened.

IMO, we are so gifted to share the "keys" that allow this special awareness! Long live the Nexus.

Peace

 

[Handel]

There is the scientific paradigm of the many worlds interpretation, that many scientists accept today.

Then, there's the spiritual side: If we accept that "God" (the All) has a "natural" inclination to create universes and realms, in order to experience, then it makes sense that every decision made in that universe springs up a new universe. It'd be limiting if a new universe came to life, but only one version of events come to be. That would mean that only one side of things would be experienced (the eye of each beholder), instead of every possible outcome. Personally, I believe that if any that spiritual stuff are real, then by definition "everything goes". It just makes more sense that way. As for "processing power" (to "run" all these universes), what actually exists in the void, is potential. And potential can be unlimited. Just my two cents.

 

[nexalizer]

This interpretation has always made intuitive sense to me (after becoming aware of its existance).

I like to think it really works like this.

 

[TimePantry]

Wow, I was not expecting to get so many thoughtful replies. And it's really interesting to hear that others have similar feelings and experiences.

Here's another thing I've gleaned from my travels, largely unremembered though they are..

Most of us are familiar with the x, y, and z axes. We are used to picturing reality along their corresponding planes. But can you conceive of a direction that you can't picture?

(coming back from that direction, I retain the awareness that there is a term for it, but it's not something that translates.)

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Has someone mentioned Occam's razor? One universe may be enough.

 

[upwaysidedown]

I have never experiences multiples when using entheogens, but my wife consistently becomes a number of different individuals all with their own life stories.

As for otherwise, I have experiences natural dreams where I experience two dreams at once - it is very much like having a consciousness in two realities simultaneously - but with key events that tie the dreams together. It is very odd to feel that you have two consciousnesses when this happens and hard to get your head around on waking.

I did consider that they may have been separate similar dreams, but they were so intertwined that sometimes it was hard to tell what happened in one dream or the other at the same time. Almost like it was a story retold in two different settings. Seems it is not an unknown phenomenon, a few lucid dreamers have discussed it.

Not sure its that relevant to this, but it does open eyes to the ability for you to be in more than one reality at once.

Has someone mentioned Occam's razor? One universe may be enough.

If this were some sort of science experiment based on physical reality then absolutely apply Occam's Razor. However, we are not discussing objective experiments, but subjective experiences.

For subjective experiences, you can either toss them all out the window as irrelevant (which for objective science you would need to do), OR you can try and come to an understanding of YOUR reality based on YOUR experiences. The latter will not publish any science papers, but some of us seem to be sharing similar experiences so why discount them? If assumptions from subjective experiences (e.g. I felt I could fly by flapping my arms) contradict findings in physical reality then by all means don't live by them.

Add to that, that our most accurate science (quantum mechanics) can be interpreted to predict multiple universes, and the whole issue is then muddied. Especially as multiple universes may well be among the simplest explanations currently.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Has someone mentioned Occam's razor? One universe may be enough.

If this were some sort of science experiment based on physical reality then absolutely apply Occam's Razor. However, we are not discussing objective experiments, but subjective experiences.

For subjective experiences, you can either toss them all out the window as irrelevant (which for objective science you would need to do), OR you can try and come to an understanding of YOUR reality based on YOUR experiences. The latter will not publish any science papers, but some of us seem to be sharing similar experiences so why discount them? If assumptions from subjective experiences (e.g. I felt I could fly by flapping my arms) contradict findings in physical reality then by all means don't live by them.

Add to that, that our most accurate science (quantum mechanics) can be interpreted to predict multiple universes, and the whole issue is then muddied. Especially as multiple universes may well be among the simplest explanations currently.

I thought the argument against the multiple universe theory is indeed Occam's razor. Maybe it's one universe just with different levels/dimensions. No need for unnecessary complications, even in a subjective experience.

I like the simulation theory. An emergent digital universe in a universal computer. With multiple dimensions. We currently live in the 3D space/time dimension, which is actually 4D if you take time into account. Psychedelics may give the impression that there are other dimensions, but they never indicated another universe.

If you think about it more, it's just a play with words. Greeks called nondivisable particles atoms. Now we smashed some atoms and call the nondivisable particles elementary particles. Great. So let's divide the universe into different layers/multiverses. But then the word universe describes a common, nondivisable space and we created an oxymoron. Because what space is the multiverse in?

 

[upwaysidedown]

I thought the argument against the multiple universe theory is indeed Occam's razor. Maybe it's one universe just with different levels/dimensions. No need for unnecessary complications, even in a subjective experience.

Actually jury is out on that, in a way we both have valid point of view.

I like the simulation theory. An emergent digital universe in a universal computer. With multiple dimensions. We currently live in the 3D space/time dimension, which is actually 4D if you take time into account. Psychedelics may give the impression that there are other dimensions, but they never indicated another universe.

If you think about it more, it's just a play with words. Greeks called nondivisable particles atoms. Now we smashed some atoms and call the nondivisable particles elementary particles. Great. So let's divide the universe into different layers/multiverses. But then the word universe describes a common, nondivisable space and we created an oxymoron. Because what space is the multiverse in?

When it comes to hyperspace, I feel taking the physical reality point of view is irrelevant. I am happy to sort of evoke Plato - that there is another place, outside of physical reality. I think of it as conceptual space, where existence there is synonymous with just being a concept or an idea. Its where all of maths exists, every idea you ever had or haven't yet, and this physical universe is contained within it as a strong shared belief, the "rules" of this physical universe exist in that space as they are conceptual not physical.

As such we, ourselves, the "I am" of us, is a concept, an indestructible eternal element that can exist in that other place, or partake of physical experience - as we seem to be doing now.

Because of this, every possibility than can be imagined exists in that space. And in our experience of our physical existence we unconsciously traverse these possibilities through our beliefs.

More mind f@@king is that every instance of us is a concept and will exist and continue eternally, and perhaps independently, on its own path creating a crazy large number (best to avoid throwing infinity around too much) of possible outcomes and simultaneous existences. What you think of you. of you now, is just an insignificantly small segment of what you actually are focused upon by the narrow view of your conscious mind.

Of course I could be wrong. But can a physical system contain its own rules, and if not where are these rules? It would be like a simulation containing the code for its own simulation, but if it did that, what does the simulation run on?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Actually jury is out on that, in a way we both have valid point of view.

It's actually more a problem of semantics. Can you split atoms? Sure you can, but then you create an oxymoron, because 'atomon' means "uncuttable", "indivisible"

Atomism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can you have multiple universes? Probably. But again you create an oxymoron because universum means:

From Old French univers, from Latin universum ‎(“all things, as a whole, the universe”), neuter of universus ‎(“all together, whole, entire, collective, general, literally turned or combined into one”), from uni-, combining form of unus ‎(“one”) + versus ‎(“turned”), perfect passive participle of verto ‎(“I turn”).

universum - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

I think in former times the struggle was called: is there one God or multiple gods? Yet nobody knows how this God was created. Or how you can measure him.

Of course I could be wrong. But can a physical system contain its own rules, and if not where are these rules? It would be like a simulation containing the code for its own simulation, but if it did that, what does the simulation run on?

[YOUTUBE]

Think of the "physical" as computed constraints described in numbers. There's no matter, only code. When you collide in an ego shooter with the wall, does the wall exist? For the computed shooter yes, because of the collision constraints, for the actual player no, it's only numbers. You don't die, just because your computer character dies. But for the simulated shooter, the death is indeed "real". But once you press "continue", the player gets resurrected.

Calculating Space - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To address Occam's razor and simulated multiple universes: does the simulated universe need more than one computer? Not really. Just calculate a different physical subset with different Fundamental interactions or different particles.

 

[TimePantry]

Ufostrahlen, I can only say that when I used the term "parallel universes" I was employing a well known meme for the purpose of convenience and -pardon the pun- universality; FWIW I did not necessary mean to refer to literal multiples of our one universe, but rather multiples of our experienced consensual reality.

upwaysidedown, I am in awe of your erudition. Actually, everyone's erudition here. This is fascinating to read.

I lean toward the simulation theory myself oftentimes. Data that seems to be in support of this has been accumulating.

Speaking of Plato, I have a painting called "Those Who Cast the Shadows" referring to Plato's cave.