sinister liminal trips crossing into reality?

[hyperturtle]

Rookie here. About half a dozen vibrant low level trips so far, trying, but no apparent breakthrough. Most trips have a sinister presence and aspect. Very trickster like. Sometimes very playful at the same time. During trips, I have felt that I might stop breathing and die on a couple of occasions. It seemed to indicate I needed to have an ego death, and it might be physical as well as of my conscious. My heart rate and BP increased, but no actual physical problems occurred during the trips.

I was inviting a friend to be a sitter and participant. She did not participate, but in ongoing conversations with me over a few days, she seemed to be having contact with DMT entities without taking DMT. In a frenzied energetic state, as if they were communicating with her in her mind, symbols, synchronicities, and other peculiar phenomena in this reality. The synchronicity aspect seemed to be off the chart, and she seems to be in an uneasy liminal state. My trips included clever indirect messages that involved my relationship with her and including her in the experiences. Like each trip built off the succeeding trips. It was like a sinister trickster wanting to play a mind game with me and her.

I did not expect high strangeness to occur with my DMT initiation.

She was very shaken up in tears and shaking. She thinks she may have had contact with several odd people who are these entities manifest in our physical reality. She felt like she had a possession or abduction of sorts where the sinister entities got in her mind and altered her perception of the roads and cities as she was trying to drive home.

She is into tarot, readings, has participated in ghost investigations, and similar paranormal or high strangeness activities. But she's never felt frenzied or unsettled like she has been with my recent initiation.

We've discussed and tried to make sense of what is happening, but it's unnerving and a little frightening. I was able to comfort her down and get her into a better state of mind.

Are there experiences where it seems like DMT entities cross over into our reality? Whether as odd people or orbs or UFOs or synchronicities or aliens, etc?

 

[Mechanism]

The synchronicity aspect seemed to be off the chart, and she seems to be in an uneasy liminal state.

Could you describe some of these synchronicities? They seem to grow in frequency and directness after ingesting psychedelics, or intense meditation practice.

I've had a friend comment that they seem to become more frequent when you make a change to any routines you might have (he has a PHD in chemistry so I trust him to be objective). My hunch is that they may be related to quantum decoherence in some way.

 

[Thierr7]

As you said , she is in Tarot , Ghost investigations and that kind of stuff ...

It wouldn't surprised me that she opened doors that are not supposed to be opened ... just my 2cents !

 

[Varallo]

Rookie here. About half a dozen vibrant low level trips so far, trying, but no apparent breakthrough. Most trips have a sinister presence and aspect. Very trickster like. Sometimes very playful at the same time. During trips, I have felt that I might stop breathing and die on a couple of occasions. It seemed to indicate I needed to have an ego death, and it might be physical as well as of my conscious. My heart rate and BP increased, but no actual physical problems occurred during the trips.

I was inviting a friend to be a sitter and participant. She did not participate, but in ongoing conversations with me over a few days, she seemed to be having contact with DMT entities without taking DMT. In a frenzied energetic state, as if they were communicating with her in her mind, symbols, synchronicities, and other peculiar phenomena in this reality. The synchronicity aspect seemed to be off the chart, and she seems to be in an uneasy liminal state. My trips included clever indirect messages that involved my relationship with her and including her in the experiences. Like each trip built off the succeeding trips. It was like a sinister trickster wanting to play a mind game with me and her.

I did not expect high strangeness to occur with my DMT initiation.

She was very shaken up in tears and shaking. She thinks she may have had contact with several odd people who are these entities manifest in our physical reality. She felt like she had a possession or abduction of sorts where the sinister entities got in her mind and altered her perception of the roads and cities as she was trying to drive home.

She is into tarot, readings, has participated in ghost investigations, and similar paranormal or high strangeness activities. But she's never felt frenzied or unsettled like she has been with my recent initiation.

We've discussed and tried to make sense of what is happening, but it's unnerving and a little frightening. I was able to comfort her down and get her into a better state of mind.

Are there experiences where it seems like DMT entities cross over into our reality? Whether as odd people or orbs or UFOs or synchronicities or aliens, etc?

There is no link between these events, any link you and your friend seem to experience are a figment of your imagination. In other words don’t worry, there are no supernatural events occurring.

What does worry me a bit is that your friend seems to be unraveling a bit, so maybe keep an eye on her for some time and I would urge to not share your drugs with her.

I wish you all the best and hope you find a more level headed friend to be your sitter.

 

[Mechanism]

In situations like this, if everyone involved can be isolated so they can record as many details as possible without cross contamination, then it might be possible to discern a non conventional link. My hunch is that connections would become most apparent between seemingly insignificant details.

No intention of ad hominem here but disqualifying a hypothesis due to a preconception runs contrary to the scientific method. I think it's noteworthy that anecdotal evidence has historically been the basis for many scientific discoveries.

 

[Varallo]

No intention of ad hominem here but disqualifying a hypothesis due to a preconception runs contrary to the scientific method. I think it's noteworthy that anecdotal evidence has historically been the basis for many scientific discoveries

Unless you’re talking about my blonde hair, don’t worry too much about the ad hominem .
I don’t think that is true that one has to consider all hypotheses equally, especially if they lack empirical support or contradict established evidence. To be honest I think setting aside an unsupported hypothesis is part of applying scientific rigor, not personal bias. On the anecdotal observations, they have at times led to scientific inquiry, but that does not mean they are evidence themselves. Anecdotes may inspire hypotheses, but those ideas are only accepted into the scientific body of knowledge once they are rigorously tested, reproducible, and supported by empirical data. In this specific case it’s well established that these ideas on tarot cards and other paranormal phenomena are not based on actual science but on folklore and mythology. In short there’s no need to spend any time on repeating what has already been proven many times over.

 

[Mechanism]

I'll have to respectfully disagree there.

"Paranormal phenomena" is too broad of a term, which can be used to discredit people with otherwise valid observations. The primary concern of the OP is that his friend believes that she is in contact with entities as a result of his dabbling with psychedelic substances. Is she imagining things? Most likely. But the relevant questions here are some variation of "Is non local communication possible?" and if so "Do psychedelics facilitate non local communication?".

I propose that the best way to test this would be to expose many *groups* of people to various psychedelics under controlled conditions, isolate individuals to prevent cross contamination, then have them record their experiences via drawing or writing. These accounts can then be fed into a multimodal AI so that it can find correlations that humans would most likely miss.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Your friend may have fallen victim to power of suggestion, since she didn't take anything.

All the same, not all experiential phenomena are explainable. We are also dealing with two unknowns with DMT: consciousness and the mind, two very illusive things we can't quite pin down (or really have empirical evidence for). Then DMT and the spaces it opens up is up for debate leaving one at an antimony when considering all sides "equally."

I don't know your friend, I don't know how impressionable she is, but we often seem to need the "fantastical" in our lives as an explanation for many things. The more one unconsciously appeals to that, the more likely they are to experience their own fantasies, derived from them and not "reality."

One love

 

[hyperturtle]

My friend is currently in the hospital being evaluated after a mental breakdown. This has never happened to her, and came out of the blue. The last day and a half has been a whirl wind. I can't detail all of her erratic behavior. She wanted an exorcist, all sorts of hallucinations and delusions, paranoia, driving extremely recklessly, yelling at people, and pounding their windows. We were able to get her to a hospital where she will stay for a while.

To me it looks like paranoid schizophrenia. This is unsettling for me. I'm crushed that this has happened to her. If my discussions with her about DMT and high strangeness triggered some mental breakdown for her, that's going to be hard for me to deal with.

 

[Voidmatrix]

To me it looks like paranoid schizophrenia. This is unsettling for me. I'm crushed that this has happened to her. If my discussions with her about DMT and high strangeness triggered some mental breakdown for her, that's going to be hard for me to deal with.

There's no way you could've known really. Don't blame yourself.

I just hope she gets the help she needs. This definitely sounds like something more than just the potential of hyperspace crossing over into reality for a person that has only had discussions about it.

Make sure you take the time to process all of this a take care of yourself as well.


One love