Size of extractions advise

[CokFLHX]

Hello. I’ve heard that the general consensus is that extracting in batches of 50 to 100 grams of bark at a time is ideal.

I can’t remember any specifics if the argument, which is why I’m asking here.

Is it true that going in batches of about 100g of bark at a time tends to give better yields? I can’t see any science that would back that up other than it making the amounts and sizes of glassware more convenient and easier to work with.

However, for someone familiar and experienced in extraction, if they have the appropriately sized containers, extraction of a batch of 500g of bark should be no different that a batch using 100g of bark, other than the scale, right?

I usually do 100-150 at a time, but am considering doing a much larger run of 500g soon.

Thanks for any insights

 

[Transform]

if they have the appropriately sized containers, extraction of a batch of 500g of bark should be no different that a batch using 100g of bark, other than the scale, right?

No. There's an issue with surface area scaling as the second power, while volume scales as the third power, of length. This is one of the things that makes larger extractions less efficient, as well as anything much above 250g becoming cumbersome to handle, increasing the likelihood of mishaps and wastage. It's also a far greater loss if something did go catastrophically wrong with the extraction, as well as the severity of a catastrophe scaling nonlinearly.

It would make more sense to do several smaller extractions concurrently as you can then use what would be waiting time in one extraction for progressing an earlier stage of a subsequent extraction.

The trade-off there is that you'd need slightly more equipment and a thoroughly organised approach for keeping track of which extraction is which, what belongs where, and what's coming next. That sounds like a positive investment to me.

 

[doubledog]

Bigger extraction becomes more something like an engineering task than easy kitchen chemistry experiment. It requires much better equipment to keep same level of yield.

 

[CokFLHX]

That’s exactly the kind of advise you hope for when you post a thread. Great explanation. I swear I love this site. What an amazing resource.

While I’ve got your attention, I’ve recently been revisiting the idea of filtering. In thr past, filtering had been such a pain in the ass I have found it easier to just not do it. It means you can’t use a separation funnel, but all considered it saves time.

However, I was thinking of trying a filter press with cheesecloth or filter bag if anything as a initial filter before I go to what I had been using, a Buchner filter that’s only about 2" in diameter and 2" deep. No wonder it was such a pain, yeah?

Anybody have any experience with these? Here is a picture:

 

[Transform]

That’s exactly the kind of advise you hope for when you post a thread. Great explanation. I swear I love this site. What an amazing resource.

While I’ve got your attention, I’ve recently been revisiting the idea of filtering. In thr past, filtering had been such a pain in the ass I have found it easier to just not do it. It means you can’t use a separation funnel, but all considered it saves time.

However, I was thinking of trying a filter press with cheesecloth or filter bag if anything as a initial filter before I go to what I had been using, a Buchner filter that’s only about 2" in diameter and 2" deep. No wonder it was such a pain, yeah?

Anybody have any experience with these? Here is a picture:

Manske probably pressed his rue seeds with something similar, from what I recall of his paper. Definitely a nice tool to have whether repurposed for the laboratory or not. Don't skimp on the quality if you can afford something better.

 

[Icon]

FWIW the q21q21 dry tek is written for 500g, and works well at that scale.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Question: I've only done STB so far, although I have some shredded bark and might do A/B in the future. I've been doing 20/30 gram extractions.
I'm definitely a cook and not a chemist. I just scale down a set of extraction instructions. A certain amount of water, lye, bark, etc. I don't even check the PH since the recipe I use overbases to help break down the bark. (equal weight lye and bark)

What would happen if I used more water? Same everything but used more water. I think that more volume might help get everything out. Should I then use lye commensurate to the amount of water or the amount of bark?

 

[Transform]

FWIW the q21q21 dry tek is written for 500g, and works well at that scale.

Good point, the volume of basified bark is much smaller there. Solvent volumes depend upon choice of solvent, i.e. more naphtha would be required as it's a weaker DMT solvent than limonene or EA, for example. Of course, one could simply do more naphtha pulls and cycle two or three batches between pulling and freezing to keep the volume down.

The original caution against bigger extractions was focussed on A/B and, particularly, STB/ATB methods.